Mega Thread Trade and List Management discussion

[TheHoneyBadger]

I wouldn't be against adding Reid, but if he was to play forward (in the event that Jones goes), we'd just have a more expensive version of the same problem, and if he was to play defense, we'd have a more expensive version of our developing backs.

No thanks. Just because he's taller than 195cm doesn't mean he's "exactly what we need." We need quality, we need bang for our buck.

 

[Mattdougie]

I wouldn't be against adding Reid, but if he was to play forward (in the event that Jones goes), we'd just have a more expensive version of the same problem, and if he was to play defense, we'd have a more expensive version of our developing backs.

No thanks. Just because he's taller than 195cm doesn't mean he's "exactly what we need." We need quality, we need bang for our buck.

We need someone Nathan so who do you suggest?

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

We need someone Nathan so who do you suggest?

Sam Frost. Easty likes Josh Walker. What's Tom Lynch's contract status? I'd throw the book at him, he's a star.

Any of the quality talls coming out of contract at the end of next year.

We can't just blow picks and cap room on any tall because we need a tall. That kind of crap can throw the rebuild completely off course, and cost us players in the future.

Need (desperately) to keep Jones, persist with Talia and Roberts, and add value like Frost/Walker rather than blowing our load over duds like Reid, who, believe me, won't be of any value to our side, particularly if they're on a gigantic deal.

 

[Mattdougie]

Sam Frost. Easty likes Josh Walker. What's Tom Lynch's contract status? I'd throw the book at him, he's a star.

Any of the quality talls coming out of contract at the end of next year.

We can't just blow picks and cap room on any tall because we need a tall. That kind of crap can throw the rebuild completely off course, and cost us players in the future.

Need (desperately) to keep Jones, persist with Talia and Roberts, and add value like Frost/Walker rather than blowing our load over duds like Reid, who, believe me, won't be of any value to our side, particularly if they're on a gigantic deal.

Wow someone that actually thinks about this realistically

I know I talk some bs but some ofte rubbish in here has been laughable

I can't believe people actually want to trade Jones and Mino and then use the excuse of development to excuse it's stupidity.

We need to get taller you don't do that by trading the talls you already have when your not assured if getting any back

 

[fronkalicious]

Reid would be such a whipping boy if we coughed up for him.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

Wow someone that actually thinks about this realistically

I know I talk some bs but some ofte rubbish in here has been laughable

I can't believe people actually want to trade Jones and Mino and then use the excuse of development to excuse it's stupidity.

We need to get taller you don't do that by trading the talls you already have when your not assured if getting any back

Campbell's clearly not ready to step up on his own and I'm not sure we're ready to guarantee Ayce Cordy a game every week. Minson's held his own rucking alone with a back injury for almost an entire year, he can't be traded.

Jones gets a shocking rap. The supporters were abusing him from the stands when he was still wet behind the ears. What young tall would want to come to our club? I'm very confident he'll be a good player for us, he just needs more time. He'll grow with the team.

Reid would be such a whipping boy if we coughed up for him.

Speaking of whipping boys we've traded for, Crameri copped an awful rap from some supporters this year (including one old bitch who told me I was being disrespectful when I told her why she was wrong) despite kicking 37 goals, setting up many more, running his guts out as an athletic endurance forward, and all while under the duress of an ASADA investigation, thanks to the ******* circus we plucked him from.

He's a gun, and he's worked bloody hard for our club. Hopefully the fickle jerks that criticise him can use their brains, limited as they may be, and give him the credit he deserves. Worth every cent.

 

[True Dog]

I would

Macca isn't a stupid man trading Mino would virtually guarantee him getting sacked next year

That's the nicest thing I've heard say about Macca MD, are you softening

 

[Dry Rot]

Jones gets a shocking rap.

Why?

He is rubbish. s**t forward. Runs under the ball, and no tank. Clueless leading. In terms of forward instincts, Morris has more. Stringer embarrasses him with FA experience. Hope he leaves - list clogger. Couldn't give a **** what he may end up doing elsewhere. He hasn't done it here.

But FWIW, Sam Reid is no better. And, have you noticed, Reid has an unusually small head.

 

[coxman]

Would we be worth looking at membery from the swans, he has put contract negotiations on hold. Or is he to similar to crameri and stringer?

 

[Dry Rot]

Or is he to similar to crameri and stringer?

Yes.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

Why?

He is rubbish. s**t forward. Runs under the ball, and no tank. Clueless leading. In terms of forward instincts, Morris has more. Stringer embarrasses him with FA experience. Hope he leaves - list clogger. Couldn't give a **** what he may end up doing elsewhere. He hasn't done it here.

But FWIW, Sam Reid is no better. And, have you noticed, Reid has an unusually small head.

Reid's head bothers me. Disproportionate to the rest of his body, and it's always so shiny, even when he's not sweaty and under lights.

Same with Ted Richards. My old man compared his head (it's probably worth noting in the context of this sentence that I'm referring to his head with eyes, ears, a nose and a mouth) to a condom pulled over a lightbulb.

 

[True Dog]

Not one of those guys is an electric, speed machine goal kicking crumber. Not one. Dal is more a clearance/defensive small. We don't have anyone like garlett on the list at all. Not saying he's perfect but if he was seriously cheap id consider it.

See, I think Dal can be Fronk if Macca wanted him to.... I think all our smalls play to defensive and to far up the ground... That said Garlett's speed can not be under valued, and we have less of it than we have key position talls in our team. He could play a similar role to what Motlop plays for the cats?

I don't think he'll be cheap as some think? I think Carlton will try and package him with there first round to try and move up the chain...

 

[Zgope1]

Like Reid but has been in crap form all year pretty much. Will watch with a smile when he kicks a few goals next week and everyone eats their words

 

[doggies ftw]

Sam Frost. Easty likes Josh Walker. What's Tom Lynch's contract status? I'd throw the book at him, he's a star.

Any of the quality talls coming out of contract at the end of next year.

We can't just blow picks and cap room on any tall because we need a tall. That kind of crap can throw the rebuild completely off course, and cost us players in the future.

Need (desperately) to keep Jones, persist with Talia and Roberts, and add value like Frost/Walker rather than blowing our load over duds like Reid, who, believe me, won't be of any value to our side, particularly if they're on a gigantic deal.

We need quality talls but you'd rather Frost and Walker to Reid?

Anybody who doesn't think Reid would significantly add to our team is kidding themselves.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

We need quality talls but you'd rather Frost and Walker to Reid?

Anybody who doesn't think Reid would significantly add to our team is kidding themselves.

Frost and Walker wouldn't cost us pick 5 and $600-800k a year. Of course I'd prefer to trade for them.

 

[immortalmike]

We need quality talls but you'd rather Frost and Walker to Reid?

Anybody who doesn't think Reid would significantly add to our team is kidding themselves.

I don't think Reid would add significant value as a forward in our team, especially for what we'd have to give up for him. In fact I feel that he'd pretty quickly become a whipping boy. He just isn't very good, classic case of a flash in the pan who looked great as a kid but has failed to meet expectations as time went on. We've already got Liam Jones and Jarrad Grant for that thanks.

 

[doggies ftw]

Frost and Walker wouldn't cost us pick 5 and $600-800k a year. Of course I'd prefer to trade for them.

Whose saying Reid's going to cost us that much? We've been so careful and generally well ran lately why would we do something ridiculous now. If we get Reid it won't be at that kind of price.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

Whose saying Reid's going to cost us that much? We've been so careful and generally well ran lately why would we do something ridiculous now. If we get Reid it won't be at that kind of price.

Sydney won't part with him for a second rounder, we'd be giving up Pick 5 for Reid and maybe a swap of picks. They'd expect 12/13 at the very least and we don't have a pick in that range to bargain with.

He's already on significant money at Sydney, he's not going to accept a lesser contract at a club that isn't competing, particularly seeing as he's getting regular games as it is.

You make a good point. Why would we do something ridiculous now?

 

[doggies ftw]

I don't think Reid would add significant value as a forward in our team, especially for what we'd have to give up for him. In fact I feel that he'd pretty quickly become a whipping boy. He just isn't very good, classic case of a flash in the pan who looked great as a kid but has failed to meet expectations as time went on. We've already got Liam Jones and Jarrad Grant for that thanks.

Key difference between those guys is Reid is holding down a spot in the team whose just made the granny, and you could quite easily argue he's doing that while not even playing his true position. While Jones is holding down FF at Footscray and Grant is even struggling at that level. Again I'm not saying he's going to be any kind of saviour but you can rely on him to hold down a key post in the forward line and at least run out the full game and just give us something in that role. Which we can't rely on Jones for, or Redpath (not that he's been given a huge chance) or... I dunno pretty sad those are the only two names that come to mind when I think of our legitimate KPF stocks. I agree his year has been a bit disappointing for him but we've seen what he's capable of when being more of a focal point, he gives us what we need in the short term and I honestly reckon he's got quite a high ceiling. I also reckon Jones has a pretty high ceiling, but thats not working out for us currently so lets try something new?

Again I'm not trying to say we should sell the farm for him and I'm confident the club will not do that, but if he's available for the right price (big if, I don't know if he is or isn't but I'd say its a decent chance) we'd be mad to not be looking.

 

[doggies ftw]

Sydney won't part with him for a second rounder, we'd be giving up Pick 5 for Reid and maybe a swap of picks. They'd expect 12/13 at the very least and we don't have a pick in that range to bargain with.

He's already on significant money at Sydney, he's not going to accept a lesser contract at a club that isn't competing, particularly seeing as he's getting regular games as it is.

You make a good point. Why would we do something ridiculous now?

But you saying this is doing something ridiculous is being based on your assumptions that he's on 600-800k and we'd need to trade pick 5. I honestly doubt Sydney are paying him that much. Also if the only options our list manager can come up with for a trade is either our 1st rounder or our 2nd rounder well we probably need to look at getting some new people in.

We don't know what we'd have to pay him, we don't know what we'd have to trade for him, we don't know what he wants to do (hell the kid could already have 2 premiership medals by the end of next week, maybe being offered the chance to be the focal point is more interesting to him than a bit of success stuck behind Buddy and Tippet, who knows) all I'm trying to say is that he'd offer our team a hell of a lot and if he's gettable we'd be mad not to be trying to get it done.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

But you saying this is doing something ridiculous is being based on your assumptions that he's on 600-800k and we'd need to trade pick 5. I honestly doubt Sydney are paying him that much. Also if the only options our list manager can come up with for a trade is either our 1st rounder or our 2nd rounder well we probably need to look at getting some new people in.

We don't know what we'd have to pay him, we don't know what we'd have to trade for him, we don't know what he wants to do (hell the kid could already have 2 premiership medals by the end of next week, maybe being offered the chance to be the focal point is more interesting to him than a bit of success stuck behind Buddy and Tippet, who knows) all I'm trying to say is that he'd offer our team a hell of a lot and if he's gettable we'd be mad not to be trying to get it done.

I don't doubt that we'd be exploring our options, and yeah, there'll be more to it than either Pick 5 or Pick 26 (these apparently being our picks barring any ridiculous over-compensation for Frawley), but we'd have to move 5 on, irrespective of what Sydney receive in the end (eg. we downgrade with Gold Coast, as was speculated earlier in the year). For what it's worth, he's got another 3 years on his contract, he's on good money, and their KPP stocks aren't as plentiful as we'd all like to think.

We should test the water, but I trust our list managers not to do the deal, because we'll be paying more than he's worth, and while he'd add some value to the side, it'd be no more than depth in numbers, as he's really not much better than our current options. As a center half back, he's looked very ordinary, and as a forward, his output is equal to or lesser than Jones, and he's played in a much, much better team than Liam Jones.

 

[doggies ftw]

I don't doubt that we'd be exploring our options, and yeah, there'll be more to it than either Pick 5 or Pick 26 (these apparently being our picks barring any ridiculous over-compensation for Frawley), but we'd have to move 5 on, irrespective of what Sydney receive in the end (eg. we downgrade with Gold Coast, as was speculated earlier in the year). For what it's worth, he's got another 3 years on his contract, he's on good money, and their KPP stocks aren't as plentiful as we'd all like to think.

We should test the water, but I trust our list managers not to do the deal, because we'll be paying more than he's worth, and while he'd add some value to the side, it'd be no more than depth in numbers, as he's really not much better than our current options. As a center half back, he's looked very ordinary, and as a forward, his output is equal to or lesser than Jones, and he's played in a much, much better team than Liam Jones.

He'd hardly be depth, he'd be a very important part of the side. If he got as much ball directed to him as Jones got he'd have way higher numbers, his defensive work is great, he runs all day and gives us an option that Jones just cannot provide for more than a half. Really the only thing I think is similar about them is they are both athletic talls and they both take big marks. Besides it really doesn't even matter whose better, the main thing is we would have both. Reid would be providing the option up the ground allowing Jones more freedom to work with, and then they are both capable of switching roles too. I don't see why people seem to think its one or the other, personally I think they'd both compliment each other perfectly. And thats if Jones stays, if he doesn't it just becomes even more of a no brainer

 

[_M_16_]

I don't doubt that we'd be exploring our options, and yeah, there'll be more to it than either Pick 5 or Pick 26 (these apparently being our picks barring any ridiculous over-compensation for Frawley), but we'd have to move 5 on, irrespective of what Sydney receive in the end (eg. we downgrade with Gold Coast, as was speculated earlier in the year). For what it's worth, he's got another 3 years on his contract, he's on good money, and their KPP stocks aren't as plentiful as we'd all like to think.

I am just deeply curious, why would they value him around the pick 12-13 mark? Considering he has done nothing the past two seasons and his stats are similar to Jones in a way. He did have a pretty good period 2011-2012, but he has seemed to drop off the radar since

As far as I know, we need key forwards who can kick goals. What is it that everyone feels he can add to our forward line? We already have big bodies who don't kick goals, Campbell, Redpath etc. Is he going to do more than take a couple of extra marks? Unless he is going to start plucking them out of the sky and kick 30-40 goals a season for us, I am trying to see where the real upgrade is. I mean I would go for him for cheap, like a second round pick etc

He gets the third best defender, has the best midfield in the league kicking the ball to him, yet he hasn't stood up and made his presence felt and kicked bags of goals. He might kick the odd one, sometimes two, sometimes none at all. Our midfield is one of the worst deliveries in the competition. Yet somehow we expect his output to be better than at Sydney?

Not against it, just merely curious as some people seem so sure about him. Unless he has much more to work with and a highly ceiling then anyone on our team, and he is still very young, only 23 next season. If we are going to depart with a first rounder, I would like to see more production from him that's all, else we could be giving up to much for something we essentially already have

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

He'd hardly be depth, he'd be a very important part of the side. If he got as much ball directed to him as Jones got he'd have way higher numbers, his defensive work is great, he runs all day and gives us an option that Jones just cannot provide for more than a half. Really the only thing I think is similar about them is they are both athletic talls and they both take big marks. Besides it really doesn't even matter whose better, the main thing is we would have both. Reid would be providing the option up the ground allowing Jones more freedom to work with, and then they are both capable of switching roles too. I don't see why people seem to think its one or the other, personally I think they'd both compliment each other perfectly. And thats if Jones stays, if he doesn't it just becomes even more of a no brainer

Statistically, they're almost identical, and Reid's playing at a club where the delivery is much better than that of the Dogs.

I don't have a problem with adding Reid to the side (I'd play him as a backman), my issue is with how much it'd cost to land him when there are other options out there that will cost less/similar amount and add just as much. In regards to my 'depth' comment, that was referring to how I rate Reid alongside our current talls. He'd just be more of the same - it'd increase our depth and not much else.

I am just deeply curious, why would they value him around the pick 12-13 mark? Considering he has done nothing the past two seasons and his stats are similar to Jones in a way. He did have a pretty good period 2011-2012, but he has seemed to drop off the radar since

As far as I know, we need key forwards who can kick goals. What is it that everyone feels he can add to our forward line? We already have big bodies who don't kick goals, Campbell, Redpath etc. Is he going to do more than take a couple of extra marks? Unless he is going to start plucking them out of the sky and kick 30-40 goals a season for us, I am trying to see where the real upgrade is. I mean I would go for him for cheap, like a second round pick etc

He gets the third best defender, has the best midfield in the league kicking the ball to him, yet he hasn't stood up and made his presence felt and kicked bags of goals. He might kick the odd one, sometimes two, sometimes none at all. Our midfield is one of the worst deliveries in the competition. Yet somehow we expect his output to be better than at Sydney?

Not against it, just merely curious as some people seem so sure about him. Unless he has much more to work with and a highly ceiling then anyone on our team, and he is still very young, only 23 next season. If we are going to depart with a first rounder, I would like to see more production from him that's all, else we could be giving up to much for something we essentially already have

Agreed.

I just think we'd be better to go after Sam Frost or Jaksch, it'll cost us less and add just as much to the side. If we're going to throw bucketloads at a contracted player, throw it at Tom Lynch.

Under the radar down here, big time. 199cm, 101kg, kicked 46 goals this year - as many as Pavlich, more than Cloke and not far off the likes of Riewoldt and Gunston.

 

[doggies ftw]

I am just deeply curious, why would they value him around the pick 12-13 mark? Considering he has done nothing the past two seasons and his stats are similar to Jones in a way. He did have a pretty good period 2011-2012, but he has seemed to drop off the radar since

As far as I know, we need key forwards who can kick goals. What is it that everyone feels he can add to our forward line? We already have big bodies who don't kick goals, Campbell, Redpath etc. Is he going to do more than take a couple of extra marks? Unless he is going to start plucking them out of the sky and kick 30-40 goals a season for us, I am trying to see where the real upgrade is. I mean I would go for him for cheap, like a second round pick etc

He gets the third best defender, has the best midfield in the league kicking the ball to him, yet he hasn't stood up and made his presence felt and kicked bags of goals. He might kick the odd one, sometimes two, sometimes none at all. Our midfield is one of the worst deliveries in the competition. Yet somehow we expect his output to be better than at Sydney?

Not against it, just merely curious as some people seem so sure about him. Unless he has much more to work with and a highly ceiling then anyone on our team, and he is still very young, only 23 next season. If we are going to depart with a first rounder, I would like to see more production from him that's all, else we could be giving up to much for something we essentially already have

Some fair questions there. I'll try to give you an answer the way I see it. Like you said he had a good period in 11-12. Those years he was playing more as a traditional forward and he kicked 21.26 and 31.19 as a 20/21 year old (accuracy needs a bit of work ), he missed a lot of 2012 through injury and then this year he has played more up the ground and all around the place being a bit of a 'fix it' for Sydney, with most of the ball being directed to the twin towers in Buddy and Tippet. But when I have seen him go closer to goal this year he has looked very dangerous at times.

Like you say we need forwards who can kick goals but I genuinely think he can. But a forward who can kick goals isn't really all we need, he also offers quite a bit else IMO. Which is backed up by him holding his spot all year in a grand finalist side while only kicking 17 goals, he's great defensively, he works hard up the ground, he gives us marking not just inside 50 but on the wing which we severely lack, he uses the ball pretty well and links up quite a bit.

Probably not going to kick a huge bag (although he has shown he can do that too) but he can be a consistent tall forward for us which is what he adds different to the team. He's also still got a huge amount of upside and turning 23 he is the perfect age for our list just getting to the stage where he should realise his potential but still with 8-10 years in front of him.