List Mgmt. 2015 general list discussion and speculation - PLEASE START NEW THREAD ON BREAKING NEWS

[Art Vandelay_]

if we had a better midfield and the midfield depth i rkn we would all forget about our ruck issues

That's all well and good, and I agree a better midfield and midfield depth would help next season. After all we were 17th for clearances this year, which despite the constant evolutions in football, is still one of the most crucial elements of football.

I was more coming from the angle that for two consecutive finals series in a row, for whatever reason, we have played finals without Simpson or McIntosh being fit and available (2014 QF excluded). Not to mention Vardy is also injury prone as well. So from that point of view I'd like (but wouldn't be pissed off if it didn't eventuate) to see someone who is durable and can act as a depth ruckmen on the list. Now it may be that this new rookie Lucey has been recruited to somewhat fill this role, but he is likely to be very raw and will take time to develop.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

I have been pushing his case for a while , what are P13 or P14. Probably close to being able to pick him

How many compo picks could end up being slotted in front of our first pick? Just Melbourne's Frawley pick?

 

[Cursed Cat]

I have been pushing his case for a while , what are P13 or P14. Probably close to being able to pick him

Good to hear; happy to defer to your knowledge on this one (YOTC too), but even after watching a few highlights here and there I liked the look of him and thought he'd be a nice fit for the team. Hope he's available, and worth holding onto that pick to get a classy young mid onto the list imo.

 

[Bobby_]

if we had a better midfield and the midfield depth i rkn we would all forget about our ruck issues

I've been watching some old highlights from 07, 08, 09 that are here on the computer and must admit, I always took Ottens for granted. He was so bloody good. Not only could we count on him to take high scraping marks like a gun forward but his work in around stoppages was bloody brilliant.
If we had a player like Naitanui in ruck, I reckon our midfield would be boosted ten-fold just by that single acquisition in the middle of the ground.

You look at Port Adelaide and while they have some terrific midfielders in there, Lobbe has been as impressive as any ruck coming through the past few years. Only have to see some of the goals conceded by Trengove when Lobbe was off the field resting to get an idea of the dramatic impact a quality young ruck can have on the whole team, and in particular the midfield.

 

[rocker_oz33]

Lobbe has been Ports most important player most of this year.Redden and rengoff both inj unsure if they have/had anyone else other than Trengrove.

 

[Turbocat]

Good to hear; happy to defer to your knowledge on this one (YOTC too), but even after watching a few highlights here and there I liked the look of him and thought he'd be a nice fit for the team. Hope he's available, and worth holding onto that pick to get a classy young mid onto the list imo.

No use getting too fixed on just one player atm, we don't even know what we do in trade week. Early days.... and as I have said before , its probably bad news me liking a kid , I never pick Wells R1

 

[Cursed Cat]

How many compo picks could end up being slotted in front of our first pick? Just Melbourne's Frawley pick?

No use getting too fixed on just one player atm, we don't even know what we do in trade week. Early days.... and as I have said before , its probably bad news me liking a kid , I never pick Wells R1

Definitely - but also, not beyond the realms of possibility.
Might go earlier though, and as you said, we might not even have that pick!

Personally though I think that's how I'd go, barring involvement in a trade for Dangerfield or another genuinely big name player.

 

[rooie]

What are you drinking, rooie?
I'd like some!

just bitter tears i support such a terrible team that never does anything right....

oh wait, sorry, for a second i thought i was a saints supporter for some reason.

 

[_Me_]

interesting today in the vfl - the over hyped o'brien was nowhere but the hawks have a beauty in sicily
he is exactly what we need in the forward line

 

[rocker_oz33]

Having a look in another thread.
Reece McKenzie another hawkins type.
Ahern beening talked about as a classy type wins hes own ball and good on the outside.
Fromer WB Pano's has turned him self into a mid 193 cm bull had 28 touches 12 clearances in the granny for Norwood.
Kovacevic a young ruck unsure if will be draft a ruck early.

Greenwood at north is un-contracted good young player would suit our needs but would cost abit.

 

[Teriyakicat]

just bitter tears i support such a terrible team that never does anything right....

oh wait, sorry, for a second i thought i was a saints supporter for some reason.

Are you feeling a bit disoriented?? We were up near the top of the ladder, not on the bottom!!

 

[Lana]

Are you feeling a bit disoriented?? We were up near the top of the ladder, not on the bottom!!

I think the saying ''so close yet so far'' describes how some supports feel right now.

 

[Two Planks]

I would be happy to trade our first pick in the draft for an established midfielder and another second round pick. Maybe Greenwood or Bastinac. Plenty of talented midfielders available with mid range picks. Touk Miller, Caleb Daniel, Ben Cavarra and Matthew Panos to name a few.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Having a look in another thread.
Reece McKenzie another hawkins type.
Ahern beening talked about as a classy type wins hes own ball and good on the outside.
Fromer WB Pano's has turned him self into a mid 193 cm bull had 28 touches 12 clearances in the granny for Norwood.
Kovacevic a young ruck unsure if will be draft a ruck early.

Greenwood at north is un-contracted good young player would suit our needs but would cost abit.

Strongly doubt Greenwood would be willing to leave NM.

 

[BlitzenTrapper]

The club officially listed him as our best player once for the whole season, back in June.
In 6 out of his 13 games they did not list him in our best 6.
He did not make the top 10 in our 2nds B&F.

That's true. But in my personal opinion, over the last couple of years when he's been earned a senior call up, he's looked comfortable at AFL level.
Which is why he could have been given more game time earlier in the year if he was going to be selected for finals. I understand injuries play a part in this also.

 

[Pivo]

Having a look in another thread.
Reece McKenzie another hawkins type.
Ahern beening talked about as a classy type wins hes own ball and good on the outside.
Fromer WB Pano's has turned him self into a mid 193 cm bull had 28 touches 12 clearances in the granny for Norwood.
Kovacevic a young ruck unsure if will be draft a ruck early.

Greenwood at north is un-contracted good young player would suit our needs but would cost abit.

Ahern is one guy I hope we have a look at for our first pick (along with a couple of others in Blakely & Marchbank).

And after a 43 hit-out, 15 disposal, 5 clearance game for Norwood in the Grand Final against Port over the weekend, Sam Baulderstone probably should be considered with a later pick.

 

[Rainfall]

Poor Rockcliff - best player this season ineligible for the Charlie tonight
It's Joel's.

 

[Cat Addict]

Ahern is one guy I hope we have a look at for our first pick (along with a couple of others in Blakely & Marchbank).

And after a 43 hit-out, 15 disposal, 5 clearance game for Norwood in the Grand Final against Port over the weekend, Sam Baulderstone probably should be considered with a later pick.

I like Connor Menadue over Ahern with our first, not that I am a highest, well maybe I am... But I agree a skilled mid with pace is something we should look at. Everyone is talking about more inside mids, but I just feel we already have this on our list with Caddy, Bundy and Jensan, Lang to a lesser extent but Apart from Motlop and Murdoch, who are more fwds than pure mids we lack some real pace.

Like the Sam Baulderstone call, hadn't heard or seen much of him, but could be a sausage eater Mark11

 

[bulletproof]

I think we need an inside contested ball player and an outside runner. Both need to jump and run and have an impact next year. Shouldn't be hard then. And we need 3-4 players in our back 6.

For the first time in a while I have a sense of foreboding about the shape of our list.

Though I think the fact that Christensen and the real Motlop were not there in September makes it look worse than it is.

 

[Bobby_]

Poor Rockcliff - best player this season ineligible for the Charlie tonight
It's Joel's.

lol
the outcry on here if he did win it would be funny to watch unfold. I bet old threads on his shrugging tactics will be bumped while others will question his standing in the game after a few others were ineligible to win it.

 

[Partridge]

What are peoples feelings now that the dust has settled a little from the Semi-Final?

Having viewed the prelims, I think we are further away from being a legitimate challenger than I thought last week. Aside from an ageing backline which will largely need replacing over the next couple of years, I think our midfield really lacks class. I'd say that Selwood, Caddy (based on his finals performances), Motlop (based on what we know he can put out when fit) and Duncan are currently our only top quality mids that we have to work with that are likely to be hopefully be around for another crack at a flag. Guthrie could and probably should make it but I tend to think he may be better suited to a move back into defence where he performed so well last year.

I think we're a fair way off now. The finals series brutally exposed some big weaknesses; we've got some players that are simply past their best (and their best isn't coming back), we've got others that still need time and development, and we've got areas of the ground we have foolishly neglected.

What do you do first? Do you hopefully land Frawley and then target the best mid in the draft with our first pick? Or do you continue to rebuild our defence knowing that we will lose both Lonergan, Rivers and Mackie in the next year or so and take someone like Goddard or Marchbank if they are available? There used to be an adage in football that successful teams are built from the defence. If that still holds then you would look at tall defenders. But I'm not so sure that necessarily applies these days - the best teams I believe have the deepest midfields. Perhaps we should contiunue to draft elite, young mids and use our latter picks to take talls?

My worry with getting Frawley is that he'll play alongside say Taylor and Rivers, and they will continue to neglect the development of a genuine young defender; and to quote Carl Sagan - that is a prescription for disaster. We already have a hole in our list around the 23-26 age range, and that's where most of our players should be, not the least of them. We're about to cut anywhere between 4-6 players between 21 and 24. We aren't going to cut any veterans. There will in all likelihood be 3 players on our senior list with massive queries on their long term viability - Menzel, Vardy, and Simpson. They are all concerns.

My biggest concern over and above all that, is that Scott has a split personality when it comes to building a list. It's 50% developing youngsters - but only the ones he likes, and others with great reluctance (Jordan Schroder - 0 games this year), and 50% buying established players to deliver a flag now. Plus he seems to have a dangerously misguided optimism about how well players are going to recover from repeated serious injuries. After carefully watching Hawthorn late in the season, we just don't put the premium on genuine football skills that they do. And it really shows.

I'd like to think that senior games will REALLY be earned next year, and not just by the players Scott doesn't rate while Murdoch continues to stagnate, then stage disappearing acts in finals. I'd like to think Blicavs only plays as a 2nd ruckman (because he simply isn't good enough to play anywhere else). I'd like to think they can find some ruckmen at some point in the next decade who can actually compete and stay fit. I'd like to think horrible mistakes made by veterans will be punished just as much as they would be if made by debutants. I'd like to think that Scott will realise the Earth won't spin off its axis if an exalted veteran has to play in the VFL because his form isn't up to it. I'd like to think that if Josh Walker makes a decent fist of CHF he remains in the team, and doesn't get dropped just because Vardy (who Walker has very closely matched in actual output) is fit again.

But sadly, I don't think any of those things will happen. At least not next year.

 

[rocker_oz33]

Strongly doubt Greenwood would be willing to leave NM.

Yup agree.
But NM have at least 3 others that could take his role (maybe not quiet as good) if they wanted a high draft pick.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

lol
the outcry on here if he did win it would be funny to watch unfold. I bet old threads on his shrugging tactics will be bumped while others will question his standing in the game after a few others were ineligible to win it.

Stab in the dark Bobby. There will be calls of "Bradbury"

 

[Bobby_]

Stab in the dark Bobby. There will be calls of "Bradbury"

yep good call but like premiership winning teams, no one hardly remembers the runners up and the same applies to the Brownlow medal. How and who you beat to claim the award is completely irrelevant

 

[rocker_oz33]

yep good call but like premiership winning teams, no one hardly remembers the runners up and the same applies to the Brownlow medal. How and who you beat to claim the award is completely irrelevant

As you brother from another mother "Ricky bobby" said if your not first your last.