No Oppo Supporters CAS hands down guilty verdict - Players appealing - Dank shot - no opposition - (cont in pt.2)

[kelvin_sheedy]

She is a disgusting human being.

 

[DapperDon]

Where on earth does she get players doing deals with ASADA from that?

Also lol'd at the 4 billion seperate Hird dot points that could have been made in a singular point.

 

[DapperDon]

Fairfax Media understands lawyers for the 34 players will outline a series of choices and recommend the players move forward

No s**t hey Parrot? I was under the impression that the lawyers would give the players no choices and were wanting to move backwards.

Back to Back Walkleys after this gem.

 

[Doss]

I like the wording there- "to accelerate their return to the AFL".

Uh, Caro. At this point, they're not suspended. They're not returning from anything just yet.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Reckon Hird can still be coach even if players get banned the whole club and players including Hird can look at it and be "fine we do this s**t and it's over" cause they know deep down they did nothing wrong.

There will be back lash but people will get over it.

 

[2one2]

Reckon Hird can still be coach even if players get banned the whole club and players including Hird can look at it and be "fine we do this s**t and it's over" cause they know deep down they did nothing wrong.

There will be back lash but people will get over it.

Nope. Club has been firm on what they believe and we are beyond the point of no return now. Fight the SCNs

 

[The Scales]

I contest it.
Hird should not stand down even if one or more players get suspended.

In the context of your full post, I wholly agree with your argument, but he will because he has said he will. That is integrity personified, and it will be an acceptance that the purity of the game has been compromised by corrupt individuals more intent on lining their pockets on the toil of honest athletes and support staff, than any sense of decency or morality. The AFL suckling from the teats of Governments and tribal fans $$$ has engorged their culpable despotism in relation to the sport of Australian Rules Football.

There is no ability in this industry for an honest man to defend himself from scurrilous accusation. The management hold all the trunp cards, without the refuge of independent and impartial justice.

Hird would be no more or less responsible as a consequence of us losing a tribunal hearing, than he would be if we were to win that tribunal hearing.
In other words, the outcome of the tribunal hearing itself does not determine whether Hird has done wrong or is in some way blameworthy.
The outcome of the tribunal hearings will hinge on burden of proof and how much the tribunal is beholden to the AFL or ASADA and wants to uphold their position.
This is just like Middleton's judgement. It was a statement by him of support for the government agency under threat and an unwillingness to rein in its authority and power to basically do whatever it likes. It wasn't, in my opinion, a ruling based on legal principles. Had he been of a different mind and wanting to challenge the way ASADA operated, he would have had no trouble justifying exactly the opposite ruling to what he did.
You can't blame our QCs for thinking they had a case and that they might win. They were equally as "right" as Middleton in law. He just had an outcome he favoured, and found the means to justify it.
Even ASADA's own lawyers thought they would lose at least some aspects of the case.
There is no smart v dumb, right v wrong. Just those who won and lost for reasons that are not always to do with the merits of their position.

Similarly, the tribunal will come down one way or the other. We will probably lose. Experience in this whole s**t saga tells me that. It doesn't matter how weak their evidence is, it doesn't matter how much in the right we might be. It hasn't helped us so far, and it probably won't now. The tribunal will come down on the side it feels it wants to, for whatever reasons, and it will find the logic to support whatever outcome it wants to find.

None of this makes Hird any more or less responsible or blameworthy.

The rest of your post should be mandatory reading. Absolute gold, imho.

 

[vast]

I like the wording there- "to accelerate their return to the AFL".

Uh, Caro. At this point, they're not suspended. They're not returning from anything just yet.

She also has no idea what the players are thinking of doing but has stated it as a fact.

 

[letstayunited]

this is sad stuff.

I greatly respect Hird as a player and a person, and i dont believe for one second that he deliberately set out to break the rules. However he was a key player, no, the main player, in what will go down as the worst era in our great clubs history. Unfortunately due to his failure to control a reckless experimental program he helped instigate we are losing players and fans, and could potentially see mass players banned. for us to have any hope of moving on from this tragic time he must consider standing down if a single player is banned

I agree its sad, but no proof we took performance enhancing drugs or that if we did he knew. He cares more about the club than anyone else and is a bloody good coach. I've been an essendon fanatic since I was a kid. I am devastated when we lose and ecstatic when we win. Hird has already been punished, I could go on and on. But I really will try and turn away from essendon/the AFL if the club sack Hird due to media pressure. Not saying I'd be successful in 'quitting' essendon, but I'd give it my best.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Nope. Club has been firm on what they believe and we are beyond the point of no return now. Fight the SCNs

Not according to Robbo the club will appeal.

 

[2one2]

These deals have a funny parallel to the EFC program itself.

The players are being charged because they are responsible for their own bodies - they should have asked questions before they proceeded to receive injections. They then received injections with the chance that it could have been illegal.

Here they are being offered deals. They are not being shown what evidence there is against him and they are being told to accept deals, to admit they were given illegal substances and to accept this based on withheld evidence.

How can an agency who wants to charge players for the fact they accepted their supplements without scrutiny then ask them to accept deals without the opportunity to scrutinise the evidence?!

It just boggles the mind.

 

[The Scales]

She also has no idea what the players are thinking of doing but has stated it as a fact.

Not fact as such, just Fairfax Media "understands", Carospeak for "I ******* hope".

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

These deals have a funny parallel to the EFC program itself.

The players are being charged because they are responsible for their own bodies - they should have asked questions before they proceeded to receive injections. They then received injections with the chance that it could have been illegal.

Here they are being offered deals. They are not being shown what evidence there is against him and they are being told to accept deals, to admit they were given illegal substances and to accept this based on withheld evidence.

How can an agency who wants to charge players for the fact they accepted their supplements without scrutiny then ask them to accept deals without the opportunity to scrutinise the evidence?!

It just boggles the mind.

It's obvious Asada just want scalps now they have to justify their 20 months fishing expedition some how if they had real hardcore evidence they would not be making deals and will be banning players straight away.

What a s**t organization they are other sporting codes around the globe will be laughing at them and thinking "Thank * we didn't sign up with them"

 

[Andronicus]

There will be back lash but people will get over it.

Unfortunately, not for a long, long time.

 

[ghostdog]

This talk about quitting the club is bullshit. Worst case scenario is the infractions are issued, Hird and Thompson compelled to stand down and the board gets rolled. Win, lose or draw I'm in. The last thing the club needs is the members turning their backs. We're not Melbourne.

I'd like to see Hird stay. I wouldn't be unhappy though, if the players are charged, if Hirdy stood down. It would seem to me to be the honourable thing to do given his claim that he would. Doesn't mean he should though... ASADA would have to deal with 34 separate cases with the burden of proof on themselves, which could prove very difficult.

Re: suspensions, if our 20 were suspended and we were forced to field a below strength team for a couple of years, would we still have the draft pick advantages that come with finishing at the bottom end of the ladder?

 

[Stopher]

"WADA is currently scrutinising the file and no decision has yet been reached"

Yep and the barrister for those players never said it wasn't a possibility either....talk about stress for those players.

 

[Stopher]

No s**t hey Parrot? I was under the impression that the lawyers would give the players no choices and were wanting to move backwards.

Back to Back Walkleys after this gem.

Hahahahahahahahaha. Gold

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

No s**t hey Parrot? I was under the impression that the lawyers would give the players no choices and were wanting to move backwards.

Back to Back Walkleys after this gem.

Must be easy for to win Walkleys when your getting spoon fed with info.

 

[The Scales]

This talk about quitting the club is bullshit. Worst case scenario is the infractions are issued, Hird and Thompson compelled to stand down and the board gets rolled. Win, lose or draw I'm in. The last thing the club needs is the members turning their backs. We're not Melbourne.

I'd like to see Hird stay. I wouldn't be unhappy though, if the players are charged, if Hirdy stood down. It would seem to me to be the honourable thing to do given his claim that he would. Doesn't mean he should though... ASADA would have to deal with 34 separate cases with the burden of proof on themselves, which could prove very difficult.

Re: suspensions, if our 20 were suspended and we were forced to field a below strength team for a couple of years, would we still have the draft pick advantages that come with finishing at the bottom end of the ladder?

I wouldn't be turning my back on the EFC. I would be disassociating myself from the compromised institution of the AFL, where "tanking" doesn't exist - yet you can be fined for it - and stood aside at the discretion of the AFL directorate regardless.

You can be stood down for salary cap breaches, yet endorsed to take on the same role at a different club - previously found guilty of the same "crime".

You demand an equal competition, yet compromise draft picks, introduce compromised free agency and manipulate the fixturing of matches to enhance revenue.

You pre-determine guilt and applicable sanctions, and coerce external parties to fulfil these aspects of your agenda, without regard to honesty or integrity.

I'll accept Ryder wanting out as a sensitive soul, looking out for the best interests of his family, but any more sh1t raining down upon the EFC will be difficult to accept - given the flimsy premise on which it is based.

But I am not certain I have the stomach for a sports entertainment franchise that is $$$ driven, and beholden only to profit select individuals (and clubs), at the expense of the game and "minnow" stakeholders.

 

[yaco55]

Well if they do, call them.
Let them suspend the players pending a decision.
I say don't let them bluff you into taking an unacceptable outcome.
Take it on. If they suspend the players pending an outcome, it is on their head.

That will then blow two seasons out of the water - That will work well.

 

[yaco55]

AFL are a different kettle of fish. Sharks can call up any number of different players, and sign blokes willy nilly. We just don't have that ability and therefore the AFL won't do it

I have no doubt the AFL will go down that route - It will serve several purposes - No disruption to the AFL season - Put the issue to bed - And more importantly it will be the end of Hird - In saying that I have no doubt that some players will reject the offer.

 

[yaco55]

What's this talk of trying a challenge with a retired player? I don't want us to be tentative or dip our toe with this. For me that's called being ******* sketchy and taking more time with this. Either we believe the players have taken banned substances or we don't. Also I think if one player tries and fails I don't imagine reduced bans will be on the cards anymore.

All ******* in. ******* finish this campaigners

Players are treated separately - It's like ASADA/NRL offered deals - Not all players accepted the deals - My suggestion is entirely reasonable.

 

[yaco55]

If players get suspended- all senior members of the football department as it stood in 2012 need to go.

Until we know what's happening with the players, I think the club needs to just wait.

I am unsure that all senior members of the footy department will go - Bear in mind not all are still around - At the end of the day the AFL will have the final say.

 

[yaco55]

I disagree. We've had enough bleeding. Regardless of what happens we need to batten down the hatches and stick together.

How do we go about replacing 10 people and not go bankrupt. Think of the logistics. Mistakes were made, we were punished.

How much more punishment is enough for all you people?

I think you will find that if players are suspended they won't want Hird back at the club - The players must feel let down by the whole process - The problem with the discussion is that there has been little about the players - They are the one's who could get suspended without pay, unlike other suspended officials.

 

[yaco55]

I would be in the same boat. If we used a club champion as a sacrificial lamb, it'd be hard for me to come back and support the club.

So the club champion is more important than the players who may be suspended - It's a worry when it come to this.