Drugs/doping in AFL

[sauce_head]

Some very strong wording in there indeed:
http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news...ssendon-supplements-saga-20140922-10k69l.html

 

[TheLastEmperor]

Some very strong wording in there indeed:
http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news...ssendon-supplements-saga-20140922-10k69l.html

Demetrio is as bad as Hird, Little, Dank and the rest involved. He tried his best to bully ASADA and cover up the whole doping program but ultimately failed. Now he's acting like he's one of the good guys saying crap like "it was always about the health and safety of the players". Spare me you lying sack of shite.

 

[Baldur]

HUN article saying Dons will take Ryder saga to court if they aren't compensated with a legitimate trade - something along the lines of a top ten pick or player such as Wines or Hanley.

Good topic for debate - are Essendon right in taking this stance or is all balanced opinion thrown out with the peptides scandal and the unethical treatment of their players?

On one hand if it were my club I would want them to be forcing a player to stay especially when he is contracted for the next two years and is an important part of their on field team dynamics.

On the other hand if StKilda had of done that to our players I probably wouldn't be supporting the club anymore.

Essendon have to stop drinking their own bathwater. It does not matter why they think Ryder wants to leave. They treated the players as lab rats. So they will have to let those who want to go, go. To do otherwise just makes them seem even more disgusting than they do already. There comes a time when it's time to admit fault, say your sorry and try to make it right. Essendon have reached that stage.

 

[StFly]

Good topic for debate - are Essendon right in taking this stance or is all balanced opinion thrown out with the peptides scandal and the unethical treatment of their players?

The latter, should the club take a player to court, the player's grievances would effectively annul any sort of challenge as the club failed its duty of care to that player; period. This is a strong arm tactic Essendon are floating, intimidation.

On one hand if it were my club I would want them to be forcing a player to stay especially when he is contracted for the next two years and is an important part of their on field team dynamics.

Yes and no, if the reasons weren't related to health and safety of the individual or queries thereof by all means, the club can go hammer and tong to keep a contracted player they deem required, as soon as you enter that realm though, you might as well be kneeling down and puckering up, especially when you have NFI what you've actually done.

On the other hand if StKilda had of done that to our players I probably wouldn't be supporting the club anymore.

I'd be supporting the club, but pushing for anew ticket in administration and a flush of the club services department, as it would be a systemic failure of the club to allow such a thing to occur, you just don't piss on 140ish years of history because for 2% of it you dun goofed.

 

[VDS66]

Essendon and their players need to just cop their punishment like men, deal with it and get on with their lives and careers afterwards.

Had they just been forthcoming and cooperative in the first place the proper people could have been punished over the last 2 years and the club could go into 2015 with a full list back from suspensions and a coaching/administration free of the bullshit. Instead they are dragging their own name through the mud as slowly as they can possibly do, all the while telling the players it will be alright, weve got this bro.

Bomber Thomspon isnt an idiot, he knew the list wasn't going to win a flag this year and the entire administration knew it as well. Cop it all this year and start afresh is what should have happened.

So much this.

Hird and Board should resign en mass and let the club heal... regardless of innocence. Just do it for the club and players. Members should demand nothing less.

 

[Max9Crow]

With SCN's being issued and now rolling on and legal options for appeal etc seemingly absurdly unlikely, will the Essendon board allow Hird and Little to keep the legal charade going?

Little and Hird have tried the tough man, deny, obstruct and run to court approach and this clearly has gone up in flames. There surely will have to either be a step down by Little, a change of approach, or most likely a move on him by either the board, or at the Annual General Meeting, by significant members who put forward a ticket, to replace the board, to get this finished. A new board would want to take their punishment and move on.

With this scenario not only is the existing board gone, but Hird and Thompson as well, as they could never been allowed to stay either.

Hird, Little etc are all dead men walking. The only thing now is if they are going easily, or more likely a drag down fight which could tear the club apart. All of this because they mindlessly give full support to Hird, because of his past exploits as a player. Amazing. We all know of people were sensational at one role, but after promotion to a leading position were shocking. Somehow these same experiences that most would recognise, don't apply to Hird.

But St.James the Innocent hasn't done anything wrong.........it's all Caroline Wilson's fault. She is truly evil

 

[SaintsSeptember]

HUN article saying Dons will take Ryder saga to court if they aren't compensated with a legitimate trade - something along the lines of a top ten pick or player such as Wines or Hanley.

Good topic for debate - are Essendon right in taking this stance or is all balanced opinion thrown out with the peptides scandal and the unethical treatment of their players?

On one hand if it were my club I would want them to be forcing a player to stay especially when he is contracted for the next two years and is an important part of their on field team dynamics.

On the other hand if StKilda had of done that to our players I probably wouldn't be supporting the club anymore.

If they go to court they risk losing. Then ANY player could follow suit.
SO IMO they should take any trade that is vaguely acceptable.
But they are to stupid and arrogant to realise any of this.
They dont accept that they could lose in court. They can't imagine any other players wanting to leave. They will overrate the value of their own players while underratiing others.

 

[Fehring]

If they go to court they risk losing. Then ANY player could follow suit.
SO IMO they should take any trade that is vaguely acceptable.
But they are to stupid and arrogant to realise any of this.
They dont accept that they could lose in court. They can't imagine any other players wanting to leave. They will overrate the value of their own players while underratiing others.

The threat is totally hollow, even coming from those morons running Essendon (into the ground). They need to fire a shot across everyone's bows to "encourage" them to put a good deal on the table. What better way to do it than to feed that garbage to their lapdog Robinson.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Forget about ASADA, the AFL, Caroline Wilson and everyone else they've had a whinge about - why don't Little and Hird just read
the Switkowski report and then just apologise, resign and let the club move on.

Its on their website - how difficult can it be for them to find it!!!!

"In particular the rapid diversification into exotic supplements, sharp increase in frequency of injections, the shift to treatment offsite in alternative medicine clinics, emergence of unfamiliar suppliers, marginalization of traditional medical staff etc combine to create a disturbing picture of a pharmacologically experimental environment never adequately controlled or challenged or documented within the Club in the period under review"

 

[NarklesHelmet]

Forget about ASADA, the AFL, Caroline Wilson and everyone else they've had a whinge about - why don't Little and Hird just read
the Switkowski report and then just apologise, resign and let the club move on.

Its on their website - how difficult can it be for them to find it!!!!

"In particular the rapid diversification into exotic supplements, sharp increase in frequency of injections, the shift to treatment offsite in alternative medicine clinics, emergence of unfamiliar suppliers, marginalization of traditional medical staff etc combine to create a disturbing picture of a pharmacologically experimental environment never adequately controlled or challenged or documented within the Club in the period under review"

Exactly, it annoys me that the paid spin-doctors and biased journos have somehow made people think there are shades of grey with regard to what happened. For god sakes, their own report even said they were up to no good! It beggars belief how they feel justified in dragging this out. Unbelievable arrogance and narcissimsm coupled with the cult of Hird and the AFL scared of a powerful club have caused this.

 

[sauce_head]

Let's just bextinded of this taken from elsewhere, earlier from Big Footy:
I wish I wrote this but I didn't:

James Hird.

"I thought it was all above board" - Wrong

"We will be in a good place when this is all finished" -Wrong

"I cant wait until everything is out" - Wrong

"Collingwoods program is not as good as ours" - Wrong

"I'm shocked to be sitting here" - Wrong

"'Im very disappointed, shocked is probably the best word." - Wrong

" If there have been goings on within our football department that are not right we want to know." - Wrong

"As a coach I take full responsibility for what happens in our footy department" - Wrong ,Wrong Wrong Jana.

''These claims are horrifying to me, and are being made by a person or people who appear determined to destroy my reputation.'' - Wrong

"As soon as this thing is over the better for everyone. This is affecting so many people's lives. It's got to the point where it's going to affect people's lives permanently and it's just got to finish. It just has to finish." - Liar = Wrong

"I have no concern for Jobe." - Correct

 

[Periphery]

Forget about ASADA, the AFL, Caroline Wilson and everyone else they've had a whinge about - why don't Little and Hird just read
the Switkowski report and then just apologise, resign and let the club move on.

Its on their website - how difficult can it be for them to find it!!!!

"In particular the rapid diversification into exotic supplements, sharp increase in frequency of injections, the shift to treatment offsite in alternative medicine clinics, emergence of unfamiliar suppliers, marginalization of traditional medical staff etc combine to create a disturbing picture of a pharmacologically experimental environment never adequately controlled or challenged or documented within the Club in the period under review"

What I don't understand is why a player would choose to stick by the club when they basically admit to using them as lab rats. What bullshit and out right lies have the players been told to stop them from walking out?

 

[sammm]

What I don't understand is why a player would choose to stick by the club when they basically admit to using them as lab rats. What bullshit and out right lies have the players been told to stop them from walking out?

i suspect, the players do not want the stigma of being called drug cheats, which is why they will not do a deal with asada.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Let's just bextinded of this taken from elsewhere, earlier from Big Footy:
I wish I wrote this but I didn't:

James Hird.

"I thought it was all above board" - Wrong

"We will be in a good place when this is all finished" -Wrong

"I cant wait until everything is out" - Wrong

"Collingwoods program is not as good as ours" - Wrong

"I'm shocked to be sitting here" - Wrong

"'Im very disappointed, shocked is probably the best word." - Wrong

" If there have been goings on within our football department that are not right we want to know." - Wrong

"As a coach I take full responsibility for what happens in our footy department" - Wrong ,Wrong Wrong Jana.

''These claims are horrifying to me, and are being made by a person or people who appear determined to destroy my reputation.'' - Wrong

"As soon as this thing is over the better for everyone. This is affecting so many people's lives. It's got to the point where it's going to affect people's lives permanently and it's just got to finish. It just has to finish." - Liar = Wrong

"I have no concern for Jobe." - Correct

Hmmm so what are his business interests outside footy?

 

[VDS66]

What I don't understand is why a player would choose to stick by the club when they basically admit to using them as lab rats. What bullshit and out right lies have the players been told to stop them from walking out?

Problem is that although the club duped them, they did not ask what was being injected into them, so they are equally to blame.

As for standing by the club... probably more about standing by their mates / fellow players... plus a bit too much club cool aid.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Problem is that although the club duped them, they did not ask what was being injected into them, so they are equally to blame.

As for standing by the club... probably more about standing by their mates / fellow players... plus a bit too much club cool aid.

Its not about blame. Its about what was done. The system is unfair in that regard, but in context of of east german athletes given all sorts of stuff without knowing what it was, it was deemed necessary. You took drugs, you didn't know, cop the penalty and sue the guy who did it.

 

[Sheeza69]

Slam the door on the way out James...!!!!

Bombers won't appeal Federal Court ruling

EXCLUSIVE
Essendon will spurn the opportunity to appeal the verdict in the Federal Court case that found in favour of ASADA and allowed it to proceed with show cause notices for 34 current and former players.
The club's imminent decision not to appeal Justice John Middleton's verdict - which dismissed the applications by both Essendon and coach James Hird on September 19 - is despite receiving legal advice that it would win an appeal. It is unclear whether Hird will follow Essendon's lead or launch his own appeal.
Sources said Hird had been in favour of an appeal - which his legal team also argued that it would win - and that the club's stance was about far more than the pure legal position. It has been made plain to Essendon that the AFL did not want it to appeal the verdict, in which Essendon not only lost but had costs awarded against it.

Hird's position is made more difficult by the fact that the players, by and large, want the matter expedited. This is a key factor in Essendon's decision not to appeal. In choosing not to appeal, the club has weighed up far more than the pure legal position.
The AFL's legal opinion has long been that the joint investigation with ASADA was lawful - Essendon and Hird argued in court that it was not and applied for the show cause notices against the players to be shut down.
While some players may consider a deal with ASADA - depending on the evidence presented to them - there is still a reluctance among them to take a plea bargain that involves an admission of inadverdent doping. The show cause notices ask the players to explain why they should not be charged with using the banned peptide Thymosin beta-4.
The position of players who are no longer at Essendon - including those at rival AFL clubs such as Stewart Crameri and Angus Monfries and potentially Paddy Ryder - may vary with the current Essendon players, and with those who are no longer in the AFL system. Essendon has 20 or 21 players facing the prospect of infraction notices who are still on the club's senior or rookie lists.
Essendon's barrister in the case, Neil Young, QC, has provided an opinion that the club would win an appeal, based on the view that Justice Middleton's judgement was flawed and did not address the issues raised by Essendon and Hird. Hird's counsel, Peter Hanks, QC, is understood to have shared this view.
The players made a strong submission to the court, but did not joint the legal action - Middleton encouraged them to do so - in large part because they would risk losing a discount for any penalty from ASADA. Players who provide cooperation can receive a significantly reduced sentence, under the WADA rules.
The club was stunned by the original verdict in the Federal Court as it had expected to win the case against ASADA and the AFL.


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/essendon-opts-against-appealing-federal-court-verdict-20141001-10op2e.html#ixzz3Es9Cer4j

 

[Sheeza69]

Slam the door on the way out James...!!!!

Bombers won't appeal Federal Court ruling


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/essendon-opts-against-appealing-federal-court-verdict-20141001-10op2e.html#ixzz3Es9Cer4j

Stephen Dank asks why only Essendon and Cronulla's supplements programs were investigated

EXCLUSIVE
As Essendon's deadline to appeal its loss in the Federal Court approaches, Stephen Dank has explained what motivated his supplements program at the club, claiming it was the outcome of an arms race between AFL clubs, where rumour ratcheted up the use of substances.
Dank says of Essendon coach James Hird: "He was adamant one AFL club was on human growth hormone, while testosterone was in use at another club."
Naming the clubs, Dank added: "There had been underground talk about another club in the `90s where even today, during TV football shows, you will hear ex-players say going up against them was like boys playing on men. Once one club went to the edge, others followed.
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"Hird was convinced. Everyone at Essendon drove me hard to compete, albeit it legally. Essendon did nothing wrong, even though they drove me hard to the edge."

Dank's final position in sport finished last week, with his contract to provide long-range sports science advice to an English Super League club expiring.
"The Hull Kingston Rovers job has saved my sanity," he said, explaining that it kept him focused while under attack from the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority, the AFL, NRL and media.
"I am angry and frustrated and I ask fair-minded people to consider the following questions.

1. "Why have Essendon and Cronulla been the only clubs in the spotlight?"
It is a reasonable question considering he spent six years at NRL club Manly, with the Sea Eagles winning two premierships during his tenure. He claims he advised Geelong during its successful period via fitness chief Dean Robinson, who was recruited from Manly. Dank was employed by the AFL-subsidised Gold Coast.

"According to the AFL's own website in October last year, it was announced that 12 AFL clubs conducted supplement programs and lacked accountability," Dank said.
"All had governance issues. Why were they not examined? The Suns have been put to bed with no action taken. Same with Manly."
Dank argues, "you can't be a little pregnant" with supplement use, a claim ASADA would dispute, citing drugs that are banned and those that are not.
2. "Why was there such a blow-up in February 2013 about supplement use when I had been working in football clubs for years? While the Brisbane Lions did nothing wrong during their three premierships, they were considered cutting edge and I had full exposure to their program. It was all over the newspapers when I used calf's blood at Manly and it had also been used at the Lions."
He wonders why the AFL did not intervene in 2012 when its chief medical officer was sufficiently concerned to send blood samples of Essendon players to a laboratory in Cologne, Germany, for analysis.

"I got bounced from club to club whenever I had an issue," he says, "But why did the Australian Crime Commission and ASADA allow all this to keep going? Were they trying to see what was under the surface?".
Maybe Dank has answered his own question. The ACC report establishes links between bikies and peptide use. Asked whether he came to the attention of the ACC via this connection, Dank says: "I look no good in leather and can't ride a motorbike."

Told the prevailing view was that bikies rolled into the off-site premises after Essendon players had left, Dank said he was aware of one bikie getting intravenous injections.
"I was still on the premises looking after Essendon's reserve grade team when the so-called bikie gang was supposed to roll in. So was Dean Robinson."

3. "Why are there reams of paper at Essendon of signed consent forms by the players, yet no evidence of the supplements program?"
Dank reveals that he and Robinson wrote the words used in the consent forms. Asked why they were on blank letterhead, he says: "There was no treachery behind this. I've been involved in trials before where there is no letterhead. The information was to be maintained in internal filing, so there was no need."
But where are the files on drugs used? Dank says, "I believe Essendon have a copy of a spreadsheet which shows what was used."

He maintains one newspaper published a tear-out of the spreadsheet showing an approved substance, but the remainder was not shown. One document he claims never to have seen is the letter written by Essendon club doctor Bruce Reid protesting about the escalating use of substances.
"How come I didn't know about it?" he asks, considering it surfaced during the AFL/ASADA investigation. "Why wasn't I ever asked about it at the time Reid had his concerns?"
Asked if there were payment records of his employment at Essendon, Dank says: "I was on a full-time salary there."

4. "So why haven't I come forward to provide evidence to get the players off?" he asks rhetorically, aware he has undertaken to do this on behalf of Cronulla players. "Other people must be brought to justice before I do this.
Invited to name them, he says it will happen in impending court action. "For now, it is enough to say the knowledge and support of the program went as high as it needed to at the club."
Dank clearly has no issue with Hird, likening him to a man recanting moments before being beheaded.
"When he spoke at the Essendon 'self-report' press conference, he had a knife at his back. He was like the bloke condemning his own country before being beheaded by the jihadists. I have enormous sympathy for him. He has a fantastic career ahead as a coach and I believe he will have even more success at it than he was as a player."

5. "Why did the ACC say, 'Mr Dank, you have done nothing wrong?' " he asks. Told that the ACC is a crime fighter and the use of performance-enhancing drugs is not a criminal offence, he says: "I get that but they interviewed me for two days and three-quarters of the questions were orientated to drugs in sport."

The ACC passed the information to ASADA which has asked the NRL and AFL to ban Dank for life. The NRL has done so but the AFL has said it will wait until the Federal Court action, presumably including the appeal period, is over.
While Dank maintains "there was no clandestine Dank plan 14.25", a reference to a East German state doping plan, even his detractors will agree with this final observation of the confusion of the past 18 months.
"It's been such a strange, strange climate," he said


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/stephen-dank-asks-why-only-essendon-and-cronullas-supplements-programs-were-investigated-20140930-10o58w.html#ixzz3EsAJxfoT

 

[CALL ME SNAKE]

That other club in the 90s has to be the Weagles of course.
Players were huge.
Captain was a Chemist.
And coach was a turd.
You do the maths

 

[cooperrules]

Hird is appealing alone what a desperate w***er. Hes lost his mind.

 

[Sheeza69]

Hird is appealing alone what a desperate ******. Hes lost his mind.

Coops that prick has been on the gear for 20 years, it's the worst kept secret..

 

[CALL ME SNAKE]

Hird is appealing alone what a desperate ******. Hes lost his mind.

If he goes alone , and goes against the direction the club is going. Then surely thats the end of the relationship??

 

[Sheeza69]

If he goes alone , and goes against the direction the club is going. Then surely thats the end of the relationship??

His credibility is beyond shot, it's his ego that won't accept he's been pinched.. His old buddy of 20 yrs Shane Charter, was a well known supplier in the 90's around the gyms I use to train at..

 

[dewah07]

Since hird thinks anouther club was on human growth and just say if he is right, if it's Geelong or the pies I'm going to crack the s**** if it happened during the years we lost the premiership.

I wouldn't be Suprised if more clubs had sketchy drug programs

 

[TheLastEmperor]

Since hird thinks anouther club was on human growth and just say if he is right, if it's Geelong or the pies I'm going to crack the s**** if it happened during the years we lost the premiership.

I wouldn't be Suprised if more clubs had sketchy drug programs

You better start cracking the shits...