Mega Thread Trade and List Management discussion

[TedDougChris]

You're just the worst kind of person. Did I actually miss anything? I gather it's people saying good riddance about Higgins, going through the 5 stages of grief about Jones, stuff about Pearce going to the rookie list and Clark to Geelong.

I'm too cool for school.

Which is kind of ironic since that's where I was today. Well not a school, but a university. Well not a university, but a TAFE. But I had mini quiches, and that's what's really important.

Were they good mini quiches ??? That's what's really important...

Most of the last 30-odd pages has been people complaining that players are leaving, blaming Macca, discussing the importance of sustained socio-economic reform in Northern Vietnam - you know, the usual....

 

[Unknown Caller]

Tutt and Pearce will never amount to anything more than fringe players at best. Losing Jones and Higgins will hurt a lot though.

 

[timtamWB]

Were they good mini quiches ??? That's what's really important...

Most of the last 30-odd pages has been people complaining that players are leaving, blaming Macca, discussing the importance of sustained socio-economic reform in Northern Vietnam - you know, the usual....

They had red onion in them, which I thought was a bit weird. It works amazingly though, try it out.

Sigh. At the start of the year people wouldn't have cared that Higgins, Jones, Tutt (maybe) were leaving. Most people were saying Jones should go halfway through the year, most people were saying Higgins should go at the end of the year. And then they do an absolute backflip once it happens, it's extremely annoying. I'm meh about Higgins, don't want to lose Jones but I've been a supporter of his for the past couple of years, and Tutt can't leave. Not allowed

I also find it interesting that we've moved onto Northern Vietnam, I thought Thailand was next on the list?

 

[TedDougChris]

Tutt and Pearce will never amount to anything more than fringe players at best. Losing Jones and Higgins will hurt a lot though.

Personally will miss Jones and Tutt, perhaps I'm hoping that the underdog can make a fist of it....

I always found Higgins to be a 'do as I say, not as I do' type - happy to instruct others to run and chase, but not to actually do it himself... But I've been accused of being harsh on him before. Undeniable talent, but that's not enough for this side any longer... You need more than just talent... Which I think is a good thing.

 

[Some Idiot]

Just gonna throw out some stats on Tutt.

He played 7 games at afl level, and despite starting as the sub twice, he averaged 14.3 disposals, 4.6 tackles! a game, kicking 10 goals. Pretty good stats for a half forward/wing. Unlucky not to play more senior footy with those performances.

He wasn't quite as dominant as the club would've liked at vfl level, but looking at the stats again, he played 14 games, averaged 19 disposals, 4.3 tackles! a game and kicked 12 goals. He laid 8 tackles in the vfl grand final.

Main point being, he absolutely busted his gut this year, improving his defensive game exponentially but was only rewarded with 7 afl games including 2 as sub. It's the perfect time for another club to pick him up and have him take his game to another level.

 

[TedDougChris]

They had red onion in them, which I thought was a bit weird. It works amazingly though, try it out.

Sigh. At the start of the year people wouldn't have cared that Higgins, Jones, Tutt (maybe) were leaving. Most people were saying Jones should go halfway through the year, most people were saying Higgins should go at the end of the year. And then they do an absolute backflip once it happens, it's extremely annoying. I'm meh about Higgins, don't want to lose Jones but I've been a supporter of his for the past couple of years, and Tutt can't leave. Not allowed

I also find it interesting that we've moved onto Northern Vietnam, I thought Thailand was next on the list?

Given that I'm posting from Hanoi, I thought I'd shift the discussion there...

Will test out your mini-quiche theory when I return.

Agree with your list assessment. I would have liked Tutt to stay, as he has talents we are lacking in. But if he wants to leave, he's not irreplaceable. I'd have loved to have picked up Taylor last year, he would have been brilliant for us.... Picks in the 20's - 40's can be really useful so I'm not too fussed at this point....

 

[TedDougChris]

Just gonna throw out some stats on Tutt.

He played 7 games at afl level, and despite starting as the sub twice, he averaged 14.3 disposals, 4.6 tackles! a game, kicking 10 goals. Pretty good stats for a half forward/wing. Unlucky not to play more senior footy with those performances.

He wasn't quite as dominant as the club would've liked at vfl level, but looking at the stats again, he played 14 games, averaged 19 disposals, 4.3 tackles! a game and kicked 12 goals. He laid 8 tackles in the vfl grand final.

Main point being, he absolutely busted his gut this year, improving his defensive game exponentially but was only rewarded with 7 afl games including 2 as sub. It's the perfect time for another club to pick him up and have him take his game to another level.

He's the one I think has been most let down by the match committee. Deserved more time than some players who got a regular run last year. Sorry to see him go, but he's not irreplaceable.

 

[yebiga]

It's times like this I really miss dannnnnn
Please dannnnn sit down and pen one of considered calm erudite and insightful overview
Please dannnnnn help
The entire board is a wreck
The forces of evil are in the ascendant

 

[the conch]

You're just the worst kind of person. Did I actually miss anything? I gather it's people saying good riddance about Higgins, going through the 5 stages of grief about Jones, stuff about Pearce going to the rookie list and Clark to Geelong.
I'm too cool for school.
Which is kind of ironic since that's where I was today. Well not a school, but a university. Well not a university, but a TAFE. But I had mini quiches, and that's what's really important.

Nah.. dumplings, mate or a yum cha, or better still... a good pork roll.

 

[Dry Rot]

Just gonna throw out some stats on Tutt.

He played 7 games at afl level, and despite starting as the sub twice, he averaged 14.3 disposals, 4.6 tackles! a game, kicking 10 goals. Pretty good stats for a half forward/wing. Unlucky not to play more senior footy with those performances.

He wasn't quite as dominant as the club would've liked at vfl level, but looking at the stats again, he played 14 games, averaged 19 disposals, 4.3 tackles! a game and kicked 12 goals. He laid 8 tackles in the vfl grand final.

Main point being, he absolutely busted his gut this year, improving his defensive game exponentially but was only rewarded with 7 afl games including 2 as sub. It's the perfect time for another club to pick him up and have him take his game to another level.

How does that compare with Cooney's stats for this season?

 

[Some Idiot]

How does that compare with Cooney's stats for this season?

Cooney played 18 games, averaged 19.7 disposals and 3.3 tackles per game, started as sub once(?) and kicked 13 goals.
Admittedly would've comfortably averaged 20+ disposals if not for injury.

 

[littlenails]

 

[immortalmike]

Quick bit of trivia. The song "Who let the dogs out?" has nothing to do with canines but is in fact a lamentation about unattractive women in clubs.

 

[Dry Rot]

Quick bit of trivia. The song "Who let the dogs out?" has nothing to do with canines but is in fact a lamentation about unattractive women in clubs.

Thank God for beer goggles.

 

[immortalmike]

Thank God for beer goggles.

I call them Scotch goggles.

 

[Werewolf]

Maybe we'll have to merge with Essendon (West Essendon Bomberdogs) to be able to field a team next year

Half our players want out and half of theirs will be banned *sarcasm detector test*

 

[dogzrule]

Actually not too concerned by the players walking out. All have potential to play their roles in our team but they all have one thing in common: Mentally fragile players that don't have the mind to play consistent AFL football at this level. Players who will never deliver on their promise.

I dont see too many "walking out" of strong clubs whether they get an opportunity or not, apart from the go home factor

Im not fussed by actually losing Higgins, Tutt and Jones (apart from the fact the club is really short on players with good foot skills, speed and key forwards and we will also get sweet fa for all the time and development we have put into them as they commence the prime years of their careers)

Macca obviously wanted to retain all of them as they were offered contracts

Im sure Macca has a plan but im stuffed if i can see what it is

 

[BRWB]

For those saying Macca doesn't fit our 'culture', has lost the players or doesn't have a plan. I will say this - If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got. A few prelims in 60 years is what we've got at the moment. I am happy for something different.

Something where half arsed inconsistent efforts by Grant and Jones aren't tolerated.

Something where Higgins being slow and not chasing meaning he can't be played half forward where otherwise he would be well suited - is unacceptable

Something where Tutt freezes and fumbles under pressure in regular season games, imagine him in finals - is poorly regarded.

Something where Boyd and his turnovers in a game where most goals are scored by turnovers - are 'rewarded' with a base contract.

I am hoping and even looking forward to something different. Something new where all of this s**t is not tolerated. It seems we may beheading (pun intended) to that place.

Disarray, pigs arse - seems like a cold and absolutely ruthless decimation of mediocrity.

Now to find players that fit the profile for success. I am about as excited as I've ever been for a trade or draft period.

 

[the dog's kennel]

I'm disappointed by the loss of Tutt.

I really appreciate his efforts and his 2-way running. I think he is greatly unappreciated in that area - in my view he was damn close to our only consistent 2-way runner. If he goes to Richmond I predict he will have a breakout year there. He's no Jones - he did absolutely everything he could to do the team thing, and still got screwed over. It's not right - he didn't deserve to spend all that time in the 2s. I would have happily swapped Cooney for him in any given game.

So I don't begrudge him leaving for opportunity. Good luck mate.

It will be our loss, I reckon. Sure, he was never going to be a premiership player. But he would have been seriously useful over the next 2-3 years I think, while we got our ducks in a row.

Oh well - let's see how we replace him. Hopefully we can make it work for us.

 

[Bazza Bulldog]

For those saying Macca doesn't fit our 'culture', has lost the players or doesn't have a plan. I will say this - If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got. A few prelims in 60 years is what we've got at the moment. I am happy for something different.

Something where half arsed inconsistent efforts by Grant and Jones aren't tolerated.

Something where Higgins being slow and not chasing meaning he can't be played half forward where otherwise he would be well suited - is unacceptable

Something where Tutt freezes and fumbles under pressure in regular season games, imagine him in finals - is poorly regarded.

Something where Boyd and his turnovers in a game where most goals are scored by turnovers - are 'rewarded' with a base contract.

I am hoping and even looking forward to something different. Something new where all of this s**t is not tolerated. It seems we may beheading (pun intended) to that place.

Disarray, pigs arse - seems like a cold and absolutely ruthless decimation of mediocrity.

Now to find players that fit the profile for success. I am about as excited as I've ever been for a trade or draft period.

I agree with all you've written here (without knowing the inner workings of the club/players). I just hope you're right!

 

[Bazza Bulldog]

If we were to loose Grant, Jones, Higgins, Tutt ... then this would mean from our drafts 2004-2009 (players approx ages ... 23-28) we'd have 6 players left from that drafting period. Cordy, Roughhead, Griffen, Picken, Wood and Morris (who is a bit older). That is 6 out of 46 draftees from this era left on the list!

 

[paul scholes]

Tutt and Jones leaving troubles me greatly. Regardless of people's opinions of them, the type of player both of them are is few and far between on our list

That's one that has no work rate on a consistent basis, and plays poorly more often than not, or the other that is a poor disposer and has hands like concrete ? It's okay to say we need these players on our list ( and they've been offered contracts) but is it beneficial to overpay two underpeformers ?
The amount of handwringing with our fringe players is alarming

 

[paul scholes]

If we were to loose Grant, Jones, Higgins, Tutt ... then this would mean from our drafts 2004-2009 (players approx ages ... 23-28) we'd have 6 players left from that drafting period. Cordy, Roughhead, Griffen, Picken, Wood and Morris (who is a bit older). That is 6 out of 46 draftees from this era left on the list!

Just shows what poor choices they were.
I'm sure some on here would even pin that on McCartney!

 

[Roscoe_au]

Twelve months ago, BMac bought in a few ex-Geelong champions to the club. Not coaches in waiting, but blokes who knew a culture of sustained success. Moons and Scarlett are on the record with their poor assessment of the club and the development of the players at that time.

I have absolutely no doubt that they would have walked into the club and smelled mediocrity. Senior players who were relaxed by it, a board that had been educated to accept it and supporters who had got used to it.

I for one know that to change a poor culture, you need role models to mentor and exhibit the behaviours you want to adopt, have a set of rules that you're going to live and die by, and get everyone pulling in the same direction. If there are players like Jones, Grant, Tutt, Higgins and whoever else want us to remain a mediocre club because it means they remain comfortable and keep their spot in the hierarchy, then there is only one place for them, and that's at Carlton (or, wherever else...).

When BMac says he's making these boys good teammates, first and foremost he's trying to draft in the next batch of Bartells, Selwoods, Mackies, etc. and immerse them in a culture to know how to work toward sustained success and what's needed to get there.

I am surprised that the cull hasn't been more brutal, and certainly not surprised that there are players who are resistant to change.

 

[fronkalicious]

The interesting thing for me at this stage is the sheer volume of bodies we're going to need to add to the list. Of the 44 listed, 8 are gone so far, with Austin and greenwood highly likely in the gun, and Pearce only 50/50. So potentially 11 off the list (25%). That's huge.

And of the 33 left, we'd have clay smith unavailable for half the year, and 2 blokes that can't stay on the park at vfl level (fuller and prudden).

Anyone want a game at the western bulldogs??