Mega Thread Dayne Beams trade (Its over, thread closed)

[loki04]

It may seem fair, but if Hine & Rendell don't rate Crisp for instance then there is no chance of getting that deal done. They may rate him, I have no idea. But perhaps there is somebody else on the list that they have their eye on? Time will tell.

Either way 4 and 24 has to be the starting point, maybe Brisbane can find another suitable player to add into it.

Crisp has a bit of what we lack, a quick big bodied mid with good disposal.

Keep in mind not every player who goes as a rookie is a dud some have genuine scope to become very good players and it may have been a work rate issue being the only reason they went late or recruiters unsure how their game translates at AFL. etc.

There are other ways to get a ready made solid mid type from other teams too.

 

[MarkT2]

So we bought Ball for nothing. He was peripheral.

Our core did not run anywhere as deep as Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis, Roughhead, Burgoyne, Rioli, Lake (and last year Franklin). Then add emerging players like Gunston, Breust, Suckling etc This list is just awesome. In hindsight our 2010/11 list was not as good as I think we all thought at the time.

Ball was important in 2010 & 2011. He played no part in 2012 unfortunately. he was more than a peripheral player though I agree. Hinestly though Ball & Jolly ageing is par fro the course and Geelong have been impacted far more so wioth ageing core players - they have just handled it much better than we have. Hawks added players post 2008 and again post 2012 and 2013 and will again post 2014 to push for another flag. No wonder they akways bat deep. They manage their list very well. That is entirely the point.

Right now we are struggling to retain and attract players. If you think there are not isues at Collinwgood impacting that you are deluded.

 

[Good_Old]

Why do that. We have some half decent Brisbane posters coming on here making conversation and respecting club board rules and then we have the delusional posters like yourself that still fail to see their win loss record of 7 & 15 with the 3rd worst % of the year...only above Melbourne and Saints. Your year was significantly worst than your performance in 2013 yet you speak of finals football next year.

There's something not right about Queenslanders.

It's the heat, it cooks their brains a little.

 

[MarkT2]

Based on???
I'll take the objective evidence that we had the longest finals streak of any AFL club up to this year as a sign that we're not actually too bad.

FMD. Based on any on or off field measure but in particular based on success. They have won more flags in 7 tears than we have in 50. They atrget and land players. we can't get Clarke to come and we can't keep players that played in a premiership for us. Hawks have lost 1 player to the largest contract ever written in the history of the game. We aresed up one of the youngest premiership lists in decades. Honestly, what would make you think we are a partuicularly well run club these days? Profits? we have the largest supporter base in the game. Our profits aren't that great given that fact? We blew $12m or so on the pubs.

What do we actually do very well these days?
I'll give you Hine/drafting but even then Hine was a decision made nearly 10 years ago.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Right now we are struggling to retain and attract players. If you think there are not isues at Collinwgood impacting that you are deluded.

Not only is that not true Mark, you know it isn't

 

[MarkT2]

What is more unfortunate is that you have no idea of the situation and what Beams wants to do, but feel that you know best about his circumstances.

My comments about Beams circumstances came from his manager. My comments are concerned about Collingwood and the clubs circumstances.

 

[MarkT2]

I really feel the Pies need to have a look at Sam Reid and with Patful wanting to leave this could be our best chance.

I'd like to land Reid.

 

[MarkT2]

Not only is that not true Mark, you know it isn't

I am 100% certain it is 100% true.

 

[Kirby]

In that Robbo article he suggests that Beams is already on $600k to $650k per year with the Pies.

That is total bullshit. It was widely reported a couple of years back when he signed that 3 year deal (his current one with a year to run) that he took unders and that his next contract would be the big one. I remember listening to Connors talk about it on the radio at the time and it was very strongly intimated that he was getting about $350K a season.

Robbo talks absolute s**t.

 

[frizzle]

Either way 4 and 24 has to be the starting point, maybe Brisbane can find another suitable player to add into it.

Crisp has a bit of what we lack, a quick big bodied mid with good disposal.

Keep in mind not every player who goes as a rookie is a dud some have genuine scope to become very good players and it may have been a work rate issue being the only reason they went late or recruiters unsure how their game translates at AFL. etc.

There are other ways to get a ready made solid mid type from other teams too.

Absolutely. My point was though, that any deal will depend on if Hine & Rendell rate the proposed player. Hine may think 4 & 24 is better than 4 & Crisp.
These players being offered here are relatively unknown to us, but Hine & Rendell would have plenty of info on all of them. The known players are a lot easier to discuss the pro's & con's of a trade.

 

[jmac70]

Ball was important in 2010 & 2011. He played no part in 2012 unfortunately. he was more than a peripheral player though I agree. Hinestly though Ball & Jolly ageing is par fro the course and Geelong have been impacted far more so wioth ageing core players - they have just handled it much better than we have. Hawks added players post 2008 and again post 2012 and 2013 and will again post 2014 to push for another flag. No wonder they akways bat deep. They manage their list very well. That is entirely the point.

Right now we are struggling to retain and attract players. If you think there are not isues at Collinwgood impacting that you are deluded.

How many players signed new contracts this year?

 

[Baltimore Jack]

In that Robbo article he suggests that Beams is already on $600k to $650k per year with the Pies.

That is total bullshit. It was widely reported a couple of years back when he signed that 3 year deal (his current one with a year to run) that he took unders and that his next contract would be the big one. I remember listening to Connors talk about it on the radio at the time and it was very strongly intimated that he was getting about $350K a season.

Robbo talks absolute s**t.

I seem to recall (I read it somewhere) it was $450k

 

[Scodog10]

How many players signed new contracts this year?

Close to a third of the list. Each year that's a rough guide of how many are coming out of contract at a well run club. If you're looking for a figure it'd be around 13.

 

[jmac70]

Close to a third of the list. Each year that's a rough guide of how many are coming out of contract at a we'll run club.

So Mark's statement that we are struggling to retain players is a slight exaggeration.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

So Mark's statement that we are struggling to retain players is a slight exaggeration.

Mark wasn't happy in 2010

 

[frizzle]

So Mark's statement that we are struggling to retain players is a slight exaggeration.

I'm 100% sure that is correct.

 

[Scodog10]

So Mark's statement that we are struggling to retain players is a slight exaggeration.

I'm reasonably confident I know who you're referencing and the ignore function works well. I have concerns re our player retention, but I can't follow the conversation so can't comment too deeply.

In general I feel that it's more about retaining the players we want to rather than retention for the sake of it. I don't know whether that's the case currently.

 

[frizzle]

I'm reasonably confident I know who you're referencing and the ignore function works well. I have concerns re our player retention, but I can't follow the conversation so can't comment too deeply.

In general I feel that it's more about retaining the players we want to rather than retention for the sake of it. I don't know whether that's the case currently.

I think we have intentionally changed the way we do things at the club. The club is demanding more professionalism & more intense training schedules to lift us to the same fitness & discipline standards as the Hawks, Swans & Port. I reckon some are not buying in & those guys have decided to look elsewhere or the club has moved them on. The club & coach have to set the bar on fitness & culture, not the players. The days of the piss head larrikin have to be behind us.
Either we get more professional or continue on this one flag in 20-30 year cycle & then celebrate it for 10. Tough road ahead but I think it's going to be worth it in the end.

 

[Anzacday]

I think we have intentionally changed the way we do things at the club. The club is demanding more professionalism & more intense training schedules to lift us to the same fitness & discipline standards as the Hawks, Swans & Port. I reckon some are not buying in & those guys have decided to look elsewhere or the club has moved them on. The club & coach have to set the bar on fitness & culture, not the players. The days of the piss head larrikin have to be behind us.
Either we get more professional or continue on this one flag in 20-30 year cycle & then celebrate it for 10. Tough road ahead but I think it's going to be worth it in the end.

 

[Lion for Life]

On the flip side just because you have heard of them up there that doesn't mean they are not - without the exodus in 2013 and the injuries this year would any of those names be guaranteed a spot in the best 22 for the lions in 2014?

Looking at crisp in particular are you really expecting anyone to be sold on his potential after 6-7 games of ok-ish footy in a side that was getting belted every other week (which again only came about due to injuries and the coaching team giving kids a run to see if they had anything), even after the admittance that his disposal isn't necessarily great and he is prone to making poor decisions - two qualities which we already have a more than ample supply of?

To put it in perspective - on our side of the fence Tony Armstrong played a few ok-ish games for us at the end of the season after being given an opportunity at AFL level when we were cruelled by the injury imp (and to see if he was worth hanging onto). Does that now mean that other teams will see him as a positive addition in a trade involving the loss of a gun young player (ie. would the Lions accept Beams, pick 28 and Armstrong for pick 4 and Redden / Aish / Mayes)?

I somehow don't think so - even though Armstrong has played a few ok-ish games for us you'd still see him (and probably the 2nd round pick) as being list clogger and not much more, so you'd still be viewing the trade as essentially Beams for pick 4 and Redden / Aish / Mayes (and rightly so because Armstrong wouldn't look like someone who would be in the Lions plans going forward).

Hopefully you'll now see where we are coming from in terms of pick 24 / fringe-at-best player not getting it done at our end.

On another note I find it rather interesting that on one hand some Lions' supporters claim that it would affect the culture of the club to force a player from their "untouchable" list to relocate as part of the trade, but they're perfectly willing to do so for a player who isn't on that "untouchable" list regardless of whether they wish to move or not - seems to be rather hypocritical from where I'm standing.

But that's where you are wrong because majority of Lions fans would be loathe to lose a player like Crisp given the potential he has shown, in fact a few of my mad Lions family members scoff at the idea and put him firmly in the untradeable camp, but those of us that are more pragmatic see that to get Beams we would have to lose something and Crisp/Lester seem most likely.

Why? Well Crisp in particular is uncontracted i believe as well as there are rumours that he would like a return to Victoria, he has been played as an outside/occasional inside mid who has pace but finds himself surplus to our needs with the mozzie squad and players such as Rich and Hanley. At 20 he is still a work in progress but has definitely shown enough for mine to prove he is a prospect worth pursuing.

With Lester, 22 and played 52 games certainly not a dud but again us more realistic realise that something needs to give for the Beams trade, he is a big bodied inside mid capable of winning many a clearance by using his size and strength to knock opposition mids around, again would be loathe to lose him but with the addition of Beams he finds himself surplus. Lester is def harder to consider as he seems more comfortable in Brisbane than Crisp but given the circumstances may understand the need for him to be traded.

Harwood and Golby are a different kettle of fish as hard nosed small defenders, a type of player that i feel the Pies don't necessarily require and as such may not work in the trade, but you never know, Hine may see the value in picking either up, they certainly have shown that they are capable with both enjoying regular best 22 action. For the very nature that they have shown something is the reason they're on my list, we have others that are capable of that role but the Pies don't want an unproven.

Bewick IMO is the hardest to consider losing of the lot given that he is probably the most senior of them all, has 100% shown he is a more than capable small forward/HFF, is fast, agile can take some great overhead marks with strong hands and has kicked multiple goals for us on many an occasion. Again though for the acquisition of Beams Rohan may find himself surplus to our needs, he is quality with a great scope for improvement but i realise that to get Beams we would need to give up something like this.

I hope this can give you a better understanding of where most of our thinking is at, as in any trade something has got to give and these players through no fault find themselves in that bracket.

 

[Medders123]

What about this for a three way:

Sydney Lose Mitchell
Sydney Gain Pick 4

Brisbane Lose Pick 4 & Mayes
Brisbane Gain Beams & Pick 28

Collingwood Lose Beams & Pick 28
Collingwood Gain Mitchell & Mayes

I've ignored the so called Brisbane untouchables as I don't think that attitude will get a deal done. And listening to Swann I genuinely don't think it will go that way anyway. I've tried to be equatable to all parties sacrifice but also gain. Would love some honest feedback.

It like it, but I think it favours Sydney. Maybe they give us a second round pick as well?

 

[Babylove]

Okay so what about this one:

Sydney Gain: Pick 4 & Patfull
Sydney Lose: Reid & Mitchell

Brisbane Gain: Beams
Brisbane Lose: Pick 4 & Patfull

Collingwood Gain: Reid & Mitchell
Collingwood Lose: Beams

Have I got it even enough or does the pies 2nd rounder need to come into play?

 

[Adz]

Okay so what about this one:

Sydney Gain: Pick 4 & Patfull
Sydney Lose: Reid & Mitchell

Brisbane Gain: Beams
Brisbane Lose: Pick 4 & Patfull

Collingwood Gain: Reid & Mitchell
Collingwood Lose: Beams

Have I got it even enough or does the pies 2nd rounder need to come into play?

Why would we want a plodder in Reid?

 

[Big Bryza]

They don't have any cap space

And you know this how??

That's right, you don't.

 

[Anzacday]

Why would we want a plodder in Reid?

Some want Reid in the forward line, some want him in the backiline.
This achieves both!