Mega Thread Dayne Beams trade (Its over, thread closed)

[76woodenspooners]

There's something not right about Queenslanders.

It's the heat, it cooks their brains a little.

But the many Collingwood supporters who are in Queensland are OK, right?

 

[Babylove]

Why would we want a plodder in Reid?

I think Sam is better than he's had the opportunity to show & we are obviously in the market for a key position player to give us more flexibility for Ben. Sam looks like he may be able to swing to which means he could switch with his brother when needed.

 

[MagpieBat]

Why would we want a plodder in Reid?

A plodder who kicked 31 goals in a premiership year as the Swans' primary key forward.

At Collingwood, he gets the 2nd defender behind Cloke, instead of the main defender he got at Sydney. Gives Cloke the assistance he needs/craves and releases his brother back to stabilize an inexperienced defence.

It's not the worst idea in the world...

 

[Primetime Pricey]

Im not sure where the Sydney stuff is coming from. Mitchell isn't leaving Sydney and as intriguing as Sam Reid is his contract is way too much to even consider.

 

[PieNSauce]

Of course we all know that all the speculation we do here on BF is lots of fun but ultimately amounts to 4/5 of FA. That said, the facts surrounding this situation with Beams and the comparative negotiating strengths of the two teams involved are quite interesting in themselves. I'm not 100% sure that all of the following is indeed fact but it's what I've been able to glean from posts here and the media.

What we know of the motivation is that primarily Beams wants to go home to QLD to be near his father because of his father's health. There is also some speculation that other factors such as money and the wish to play alongside his brother come into play. I think that those other factors would be largely ignored by Collingwood because they would never be considered under normal circumstances except in light of the primary motivation. This puts Beams' position in terms of his preferred club in serious question as to whether Collingwood pay much if any attention to it. Suffice to say it will be a secondary consideration at best.

There is of course some pressure on Collingwood to get a trade done because Beams is out of contract at the end of the year and can walk into the draft if he so desires. This would definitely be a very poor outcome for Collingwood it's true but at the same time it is not a perfect outcome for Brisbane either. Because Beams nominates for the draft does not give Brisbane a rock solid guarantee that they would be able to pick him up. Of course they would potentially be in the box seat but at the same time they will be acutely aware that many things can change in the course of 12 months. The powers that be at Brisbane will be very aware also that if they miss this opportunity they will have a very hard time explaining it to their members.

We all know that GCS have stated that they have no interest at this time, however there is nothing to say categorically that this is the case. Let's be honest, a player of Beams' calibre would significantly enhance their prospects and I would have thought they would be foolish to dismiss the opportunity out of hand. It may be a bit of a long shot if you believe what has been said in the media but there is no doubt that Brisbane would eye the situation with an element of caution because GCS would not be the first club to ever throw a blind to the media whilst assessing their options.

There is one further factor which needs to be considered in all of this. Collingwood have not had much time in reality to consider ways to make Beams happy enough to stay at the club. From what I have heard, they have thrown up some possibilities for Beams to consider in an attempt to make things easier for him but in the limited time available, one couldn't imagine that they have been able to consider all possibilities. It's a bit of a long shot but as said, 12 months is a long time in football and Swann is no newbie to the types of deals which can be done. As a result, there would have to be some element of anxiety in terms of what might be achieved given 12 months of creative thinking. The unknown factor of course is what may or may not change in the thinking of Beams himself over that time.

The reality of the situation, as Swann will be well aware is that Beams probably has as much value in the market as any player on their list and potentially more, so whilst their public position is that they are not prepared to trade players, that position cannot necessarily be taken at face value. What is probably the case is that their public position is in place to give them time to consider options. Naturally they will look for whatever option causes them the least pain but I'm not completely convinced that they won't be exploring all options internally.

All very interesting I must say and looks very much like a game of cat and mouse. The next week will be fascinating to watch indeed.

 

[jimmy35]

Okay so what about this one:

Sydney Gain: Pick 4 & Patfull
Sydney Lose: Reid & Mitchell

Brisbane Gain: Beams
Brisbane Lose: Pick 4 & Patfull

Collingwood Gain: Reid & Mitchell
Collingwood Lose: Beams

Have I got it even enough or does the pies 2nd rounder need to come into play?

Looks okay but considering Brisbane are 'saying' pick 4 alone is enough for Beams there appears to be a sticking point.

 

[jimmy35]

I also always found it mildly amusing how the opinions of Robbo, Barrett et al are used either positively or negatively depending on whether the opinion suits the posters argument/needs/hopes

 

[Snoop Dog]

But that's where you are wrong because majority of Lions fans would be loathe to lose a player like Crisp given the potential he has shown, in fact a few of my mad Lions family members scoff at the idea and put him firmly in the untradeable camp, but those of us that are more pragmatic see that to get Beams we would have to lose something and Crisp/Lester seem most likely.

Why? Well Crisp in particular is uncontracted i believe as well as there are rumours that he would like a return to Victoria, he has been played as an outside/occasional inside mid who has pace but finds himself surplus to our needs with the mozzie squad and players such as Rich and Hanley. At 20 he is still a work in progress but has definitely shown enough for mine to prove he is a prospect worth pursuing.

With Lester, 22 and played 52 games certainly not a dud but again us more realistic realise that something needs to give for the Beams trade, he is a big bodied inside mid capable of winning many a clearance by using his size and strength to knock opposition mids around, again would be loathe to lose him but with the addition of Beams he finds himself surplus. Lester is def harder to consider as he seems more comfortable in Brisbane than Crisp but given the circumstances may understand the need for him to be traded.

Harwood and Golby are a different kettle of fish as hard nosed small defenders, a type of player that i feel the Pies don't necessarily require and as such may not work in the trade, but you never know, Hine may see the value in picking either up, they certainly have shown that they are capable with both enjoying regular best 22 action. For the very nature that they have shown something is the reason they're on my list, we have others that are capable of that role but the Pies don't want an unproven.

Bewick IMO is the hardest to consider losing of the lot given that he is probably the most senior of them all, has 100% shown he is a more than capable small forward/HFF, is fast, agile can take some great overhead marks with strong hands and has kicked multiple goals for us on many an occasion. Again though for the acquisition of Beams Rohan may find himself surplus to our needs, he is quality with a great scope for improvement but i realise that to get Beams we would need to give up something like this.

I hope this can give you a better understanding of where most of our thinking is at, as in any trade something has got to give and these players through no fault find themselves in that bracket.

I would agree with this.

I think pick 4 and Crisp is right and I have been saying it for a while. Crisp is not that known down in Vic but having watched a bit of the Lions as we have a bit of a connection with them then if you cant get Aish, Redden, Hanley etc then you would go Crisp. He is a Vic kid, out of contract, he is big strong and powerful and can win his own footy. He runs hard and he has a bit of speed. I saw him a lot as a junior and his development been very good. He would get a game for us and would fit the 'rebuild' we need to get underway with. Not as keen on Lester as think he has gone backwards but like Harwood you would at least think about. Forget get about Bewickand Golby.

Ultimately if the Pies are dead keen on an established bloke then I can see Greenwood , patfull and ORouke getting dealt into all this.

 

[Jelly Bean]

So Mark's statement that we are struggling to retain players is a slight exaggeration.

This year we have had Beams and Lumumba. Last year it was Thomas and Shaw. The year before it was Dawes and Wellingham. All premiership players and significant parts of our team. Not many other teams would have had such integral parts of a team's best 22 walk away from the club over a few years.

 

[Snoop Dog]

Im not sure where the Sydney stuff is coming from. Mitchell isn't leaving Sydney and as intriguing as Sam Reid is his contract is way too much to even consider.

yeah but that assumes Swans wouldnt pay any of it. I suspect they would given their COLA issues. In some ways guys like Mitchell and Reid are their biggest issues so they may be willing to 'solve' them via these two.

 

[Snoop Dog]

Okay so what about this one:

Sydney Gain: Pick 4 & Patfull
Sydney Lose: Reid & Mitchell

Brisbane Gain: Beams
Brisbane Lose: Pick 4 & Patfull

Collingwood Gain: Reid & Mitchell
Collingwood Lose: Beams

Have I got it even enough or does the pies 2nd rounder need to come into play?

I think that is plausible. As mentioned above assumes the Swans are keen to trade them out which they may be bc of the COLA concerns but Pies would have to have $800-1m in salary cap space to accomodate them. Unless Swans pay some then not sure how it happens.

 

[FIGJAM]

Looks okay but considering Brisbane are 'saying' pick 4 alone is enough for Beams there appears to be a sticking point.

Their dumb arse football operations manager might have raffled this off publicly as a 'take it or leave it' style offer on trade radio, but he knows it won't be enough.

I'm surprised they even put it on the table publically, if anything!

 

[FIGJAM]

I think that is plausible.

Another sticking point is that Sam Reid is s**t.

 

[Snoop Dog]

Of course we all know that all the speculation we do here on BF is lots of fun but ultimately amounts to 4/5 of FA. That said, the facts surrounding this situation with Beams and the comparative negotiating strengths of the two teams involved are quite interesting in themselves. I'm not 100% sure that all of the following is indeed fact but it's what I've been able to glean from posts here and the media.

What we know of the motivation is that primarily Beams wants to go home to QLD to be near his father because of his father's health. There is also some speculation that other factors such as money and the wish to play alongside his brother come into play. I think that those other factors would be largely ignored by Collingwood because they would never be considered under normal circumstances except in light of the primary motivation. This puts Beams' position in terms of his preferred club in serious question as to whether Collingwood pay much if any attention to it. Suffice to say it will be a secondary consideration at best.

There is of course some pressure on Collingwood to get a trade done because Beams is out of contract at the end of the year and can walk into the draft if he so desires. This would definitely be a very poor outcome for Collingwood it's true but at the same time it is not a perfect outcome for Brisbane either. Because Beams nominates for the draft does not give Brisbane a rock solid guarantee that they would be able to pick him up. Of course they would potentially be in the box seat but at the same time they will be acutely aware that many things can change in the course of 12 months. The powers that be at Brisbane will be very aware also that if they miss this opportunity they will have a very hard time explaining it to their members.

We all know that GCS have stated that they have no interest at this time, however there is nothing to say categorically that this is the case. Let's be honest, a player of Beams' calibre would significantly enhance their prospects and I would have thought they would be foolish to dismiss the opportunity out of hand. It may be a bit of a long shot if you believe what has been said in the media but there is no doubt that Brisbane would eye the situation with an element of caution because GCS would not be the first club to ever throw a blind to the media whilst assessing their options.

There is one further factor which needs to be considered in all of this. Collingwood have not had much time in reality to consider ways to make Beams happy enough to stay at the club. From what I have heard, they have thrown up some possibilities for Beams to consider in an attempt to make things easier for him but in the limited time available, one couldn't imagine that they have been able to consider all possibilities. It's a bit of a long shot but as said, 12 months is a long time in football and Swann is no newbie to the types of deals which can be done. As a result, there would have to be some element of anxiety in terms of what might be achieved given 12 months of creative thinking. The unknown factor of course is what may or may not change in the thinking of Beams himself over that time.

The reality of the situation, as Swann will be well aware is that Beams probably has as much value in the market as any player on their list and potentially more, so whilst their public position is that they are not prepared to trade players, that position cannot necessarily be taken at face value. What is probably the case is that their public position is in place to give them time to consider options. Naturally they will look for whatever option causes them the least pain but I'm not completely convinced that they won't be exploring all options internally.

All very interesting I must say and looks very much like a game of cat and mouse. The next week will be fascinating to watch indeed.

Great post and my thinking is your thinking. When 'Bomber' comes to the Suns I reckon he would be all over getting Beams to the Suns. Will improve the 'bid' for Beams and make it transparent that #4 isnt good enough. I'd take #7 and #13 in a heartbeat over that.

Ultimately he goes to the Lions though and up goes his price.

If not and what Robbo says is true the club might keep him and back themselves in that he will find new mates at the club, Buckley and co will work hard on their relationship with him and roll the dice come end of next year he will at least do the right thing and get a trade organised as opposed to go to the National Draft. History says he will go but I think the Lions will improve their offer a lot.

 

[Babylove]

I think that is plausible. As mentioned above assumes the Swans are keen to trade them out which they may be bc of the COLA concerns but Pies would have to have $800-1m in salary cap space to accomodate them. Unless Swans pay some then not sure how it happens.

You would think H & Beams going would clear a good portion of that (plus Maxwell & Ball). Also based on comments from Hine at the forum I'm not sure we are as tight in the Salary Cap as Barrett would like to believe.

 

[BEEG]

Pick 5, Pick 25, & Crisp should be the deal

 

[Enforcer]

Their dumb arse football operations manager might have raffled this off publicly as a 'take it or leave it' style offer on trade radio, but he knows it won't be enough.

I'm surprised they even put it on the table publically, if anything!

Warren made a flog of himself and Brisbane the other day with those comments.

Ironic that Swann and Schwab are now the Brisbane mouthpieces and are making a more conciliatory approach to any deal being done for Beams.

 

[jimmy35]

Their dumb arse football operations manager might have raffled this off publicly as a 'take it or leave it' style offer on trade radio, but he knows it won't be enough.

I'm surprised they even put it on the table publically, if anything!

Part of negations though really isn't it, start low and work up, but I agree, it doesn't really give much respect to the situation and even has the possibility of inflaming it.
I suspect after the debacle up there last years he was trying to put some balls back into the club but he'd have been better off shutting the * up.

 

[jmac70]

This year we have had Beams and Lumumba. Last year it was Thomas and Shaw. The year before it was Dawes and Wellingham. All premiership players and significant parts of our team. Not many other teams would have had such integral parts of a team's best 22 walk away from the club over a few years.

So what is your point?

 

[leons magic]

Sam Reid is mediocre at best. He isn't half the player of his brother Ben. Sam is on a long and decent contract at Sydney, would need to offer a solid contract offer to get him to the pies. He can take a catch but that is all. Can't kick and is soft as butter. As the 4th forward he was pathetic in the finals for Sydney was moved back in the GF and was very poor. If we go anywhere near this bloke we are in more trouble than I initially thought.

As for a Beams trade with Brisbane I would take nothing less than the following:

Beams and a 3rd rounder to Brisbane
Pick 4 and Aish to Collingwood

Although Brisbane and there supporters will say this isn't fair, but it is. Beams is our second best player is only 24 and at this point in time would be Brisbane's best player by a comfortable margin. He could win his second b&f this year and currently sits in the top 10 mids in the game. What they would be giving us is a draft pick which could be anything and Aish who although showed promise is no certainty to make the grade as a top line mid. Beams is all of that and more, I thought he would be the next captain of Collingwood. Would throw in our 3rd rounder to give them another pick in the draft to get the trade over the line.

If Brisbane offer pick 4 and another average pick, or pick 4 and a fringe player I would urge our club to stand firm and not do the trade. If we are not offered what the club deems to be fair compensation for a player of his stature at this point in his career then we don't trade with Brisbane and try to get the Gold Coast involved who have a lot more to offer!

 

[PieNSauce]

Great post and my thinking is your thinking. When 'Bomber' comes to the Suns I reckon he would be all over getting Beams to the Suns. Will improve the 'bid' for Beams and make it transparent that #4 isnt good enough. I'd take #7 and #13 in a heartbeat over that.

Ultimately he goes to the Lions though and up goes his price.

If not and what Robbo says is true the club might keep him and back themselves in that he will find new mates at the club, Buckley and co will work hard on their relationship with him and roll the dice come end of next year he will at least do the right thing and get a trade organised as opposed to go to the National Draft. History says he will go but I think the Lions will improve their offer a lot.

That's the real point of my post. Those Brisbane fans coming in here suggesting that Beams is as good as theirs for either a fistful of beans or nothing at all are making a lot of assumptions about what the facts are and what goes on in the background. Clearly there's anxiety on both sides so it's never going to be that simple.

 

[Unknown Identity]

Pick 5, Pick 25, & Crisp should be the deal

Agreed unfortunately. I don't like it, I would put this deal in their favour 55/45, but this is about as good as we could hope for. Over to you Mr Hine.

 

[THATSGOLD]

Mayes and Aish for Beams and Harry.

 

[THATSGOLD]

Pick 5, Pick 25, & Crisp should be the deal

Apparently a shallow draft so pick 25 would be a waste.

 

[Unknown Identity]

Apparently a shallow draft so pick 25 would be a waste.

It's not that its a shallow draft its just there is a clear Top 4 and then throw a blanket over picks 5 to 25. There will be some gems in there but they are hard to identify.