Mega Thread Trade and List Management discussion

[Gmod23]

But one thing I don't understand is how everybody is standing by and uttly agrees with thee decision to not pick Jones at the end of the year, even when his VFL form warranted, in order to "change his attitude/he deserves it for lack of effort" other similar arguements. Even if that does work, what was the bloody point of doing it if we're not reaping the benefits of improving his attitute if he just walks out?

And that's aside from the fact we played a game style not to his suiting, game him no tall support up forward and forced him to chop out in the ruck for multiple weeks jn a row.

And why would he want to play for a club like us when supporters hang s**t on him week after week? Need I go back to that dropped mark against Adelaide ...

Jones had another trick to his game that made unpickable in the seniors:
First 3 quarters = almost no effort to man up. His opponent gets heaps of the ball in transition and has a huge influence on the game.
But this appears to be in Jones plan.

Then in the 4th quarter he explodes as his opponent is tired and can't keep up with him. He is now our savior sent to rescue us from a 10 goal defeat to only lose by 3 goals.

At VFL with the talent level at footscray that was clearly above most other teams, he was in the best players a few times BUT he never dominanted. Just had a few big final quarters.

I think Macca wants players who want to win the ball every single time it is nearby. I originally thought he wanted contested ball winners but perhaps he just wants players who are driven to win at all costs

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Yep... If this club wants to break the mould of being the preliminary chokers, it is going to have to make the hard calls to sort out those who don't have what it takes, lack the discipline, or couldn't care less

We're in furious agreement. I said a number of weeks ago that I suspect that this post season list management would be quite brutal and nothing I've see thus far has changed my view.

Players, coaches and administrators come and go. The club is the one and only constant to me.

 

[BEaston]

I thought Will Minson was going, but my info is he is definitely staying at the kennel.

That was a quick turn around. Thought you had the good mail...

 

[josh the gent]

But one thing I don't understand is how everybody is standing by and uttly agrees with thee decision to not pick Jones at the end of the year, even when his VFL form warranted, in order to "change his attitude/he deserves it for lack of effort" other similar arguements. Even if that does work, what was the bloody point of doing it if we're not reaping the benefits of improving his attitute if he just walks out?

And that's aside from the fact we played a game style not to his suiting, game him no tall support up forward and forced him to chop out in the ruck for multiple weeks jn a row.

And why would he want to play for a club like us when supporters hang s**t on him week after week? Need I go back to that dropped mark against Adelaide ...

How did Jones' VFL form warrant getting played in the seniors?

 

[TMoney22]

I remember Brian cook doing a talk to the company I worked for about 5 years ago. Not only did they review bomber but the put every player into 4 categories. Macca would have been a big player in this at the time. Can't remember the exact names but it was like...

1. s**t skills, s**t attitude
2. s**t skills, good attitude
3. Good skills, s**t attitude
4. Good skills, good attitude

1 were delisted or traded and 4 were obviously kept on.
2 and 3 were given time to prove themselves otherwise they knew they would be out the door. The rest is history.

Could something similar be happening at our club. Or this could have happened a year or two ago and now we are seeing players that were in 2 and 3 being pushed out. Either by offering s**t contracts in hope to be moved out or getting reamed behind the scenes.

 

[Ant_]

I remember Brian cook doing a talk to the company I worked for about 5 years ago. Not only did they review bomber but the put every player into 4 categories. Macca would have been a big player in this at the time. Can't remember the exact names but it was like...

1. s**t skills, s**t attitude
2. s**t skills, good attitude
3. Good skills, s**t attitude
4. Good skills, good attitude

1 were delisted or traded and 4 were obviously kept on.
2 and 3 were given time to prove themselves otherwise they knew they would be out the door. The rest is history.

Could something similar be happening at our club. Or this could have happened a year or two ago and now we are seeing players that were in 2 and 3 being pushed out. Either by offering s**t contracts in hope to be moved out or getting reamed behind the scenes.

Macca presented this exact scenario in a function I was at 2 years ago.

 

[F_therest]

Saw a rumour today (not sure of validity) that he was spotted meeting with Carlton officials. It is going to be a very different looking Blues team at this rate!

Surely not! Great player but do we really want a player his age? He's 30 right? We have plenty of half back flankers imo.

Could do with his leadership and experience in a great Sydney team though

 

[F_therest]

Someone posted about packaging Tutt and Jones for our second rounder.

I dont think that would happen, deals will most likely be seperate.
That article with Tutt already said something about us trading our pick 62 for him.
And again, with Jones being out of contract, stuck in the 2s and declaring he wants to be traded to Carlton, youd think 3rd rounder at best

 

[TMoney22]

Macca presented this exact scenario in a function I was at 2 years ago.

nice. Well i'd bet its being used in some form with us.

 

[_M_16_]

Someone posted about packaging Tutt and Jones for our second rounder.

I dont think that would happen, deals will most likely be seperate.
That article with Tutt already said something about us trading our pick 62 for him.
And again, with Jones being out of contract, stuck in the 2s and declaring he wants to be traded to Carlton, youd think 3rd rounder at best

Possibly, but you have a young key forward entering his prime age, who could potentially excel at the right team with the right forward set up and not being the focus. Second rounder could be easily argued as well. But probably will end up being a third rounder. He is contracted, so the club doesn't have to do anything for him

 

[total football]

I remember Brian cook doing a talk to the company I worked for about 5 years ago. Not only did they review bomber but the put every player into 4 categories. Macca would have been a big player in this at the time. Can't remember the exact names but it was like...

1. s**t skills, s**t attitude
2. s**t skills, good attitude
3. Good skills, s**t attitude
4. Good skills, good attitude

1 were delisted or traded and 4 were obviously kept on.
2 and 3 were given time to prove themselves otherwise they knew they would be out the door. The rest is history.

Could something similar be happening at our club. Or this could have happened a year or two ago and now we are seeing players that were in 2 and 3 being pushed out. Either by offering s**t contracts in hope to be moved out or getting reamed behind the scenes.

Macca presented this exact scenario in a function I was at 2 years ago.

'Good player, good culture' etc.

Made mention that players who fit in category 3 (Good player, bad culture) get given a chance to turn it around, if they don't then they're out the door. Mentioned that Brian Lake was in this category.

Players in category 2 (Bad player, good culture) will be given every chance and persisted with. Lin Jong fits into this category etc.

 

[go you pups]

Surely not! Great player but do we really want a player his age? He's 30 right? We have plenty of half back flankers imo.

Could do with his leadership and experience in a great Sydney team though

It would be funny if Mick went all "Crazy Vossy". This won't happen though as Docherty, Everitt, Tuohy, Walker and Simpson all play through there.

 

[BorisDawg]

I really hope we're not going to get sucked into making a crappy, panicked trade for Reid or similar. Just because Jones is leaving doesn't all of a sudden mean we lose the ability to kick a decent score. Let Crameri and Stringer take the reigns and they'll get plenty of support from Dahl, Dickson, Hrovat, Hunter etc. Adding to that, it will also give Big Red more of an opportunity and hopefully, he'll grab it with both hands.

I'll agree that we need a KPF for when we're contending for a flag in the future, but I don't see any reason for panic in terms of season 2015. Hopefully we can draft Wright (and pick up Carlisle), let him develop properly without rushing him into the side and we're good to go.

 

[Roscoe_au]

Wouldn't think so. Most likely end up at Melbourne with Roos.

Thought Malceski was staying in Sydney because of family and would ideally like to be at GWS, if anywhere?

 

[Pannalstaroz]

I really hope we're not going to get sucked into making a crappy, panicked trade for Reid or similar. Just because Jones is leaving doesn't all of a sudden mean we lose the ability to kick a decent score. Let Crameri and Stringer take the reigns and they'll get plenty of support from Dahl, Dickson, Hrovat, Hunter etc. Adding to that, it will also give Big Red more of an opportunity and hopefully, he'll grab it with both hands.

I'll agree that we need a KPF for when we're contending for a flag in the future, but I don't see any reason for panic in terms of season 2015. Hopefully we can draft Wright (and pick up Carlisle), let him develop properly without rushing him into the side and we're good to go.

That's true, let's be honest, with him gone we lose, well, basically no scoreboard damage, just structure.

 

[Doggies_13]

Someone posted about packaging Tutt and Jones for our second rounder.

I dont think that would happen, deals will most likely be seperate.
That article with Tutt already said something about us trading our pick 62 for him.
And again, with Jones being out of contract, stuck in the 2s and declaring he wants to be traded to Carlton, youd think 3rd rounder at best

But if it's Tutt for your third rounder, you would need another third rounder for Jones, I think your second rounder would be more appropriate for a forward with 6 years in the system and 60+ games, I hope our club finally plays hard ball and demands a second rounder or sends him to the pre-season draft, but to say a third rounder at best you would be kidding yourself, If we wanted Casboult you would be demanding a second rounder and Jones has shown a lot more than Casboult

 

[TempleKelvington]

Someone posted about packaging Tutt and Jones for our second rounder.

I dont think that would happen, deals will most likely be seperate.
That article with Tutt already said something about us trading our pick 62 for him.
And again, with Jones being out of contract, stuck in the 2s and declaring he wants to be traded to Carlton, youd think 3rd rounder at best

Second round pick for jones.

 

[Doggies_13]

Don't agree with this, just my opinion. Casboult was a lot better in 2014 than Jones was.

Was meaning in career to date, on 2014 form yes he was better than Jones

 

[Roscoe_au]

If the rumours are true that Minson leaked that the senior players are all against the coach, then if he goes/asked to leave I wouldn't mind Lowden from the Hawks. Looks a year or two more advanced than Cordy and Campbell.

Still, it's widely reported that Minson is staying. Just hope the bull5hit is finished with.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

OK, well I don't think value is based on form from several seasons ago. If it was for instance, Cross would have demanded a lot more (than nothing) when he left for Melbourne. Current value and potential value are the only considerations surely. Carlton LOVE potential.

Cross was old and decling, Jones is young and could improve. That's a ridiculously bad comparison, I don't even know why I'm pointing it out.

 

[Roscoe_au]

If Thompson remains coach at Essendon, I wonder what that means for Carlisle? Was placed in the sub vest, frozen out of the back line as well. Then there was the back and forth in the media as to whether he would be fit enough for the finals, so their relationship is obviously icy.

See he didn't even finish in the Top 10 at their Best and Fairest.

 

[crownie]

If the rumours are true that Minson leaked that the senior players are all against the coach, then if he goes/asked to leave I wouldn't mind Lowden from the Hawks. Looks a year or two more advanced than Cordy and Campbell.

I don't think we should go after any hawks that are stuck in their VFL side, i think there is more to them wanting to keep on topping up their list and spending their cash on free agents then they are leading on.

I remember they talked up their depth 10 years ago with the likes of Mitch Thorpe and a few others and none of them went on to have careers, just look at how well Savage is going at St.Kilda.

 

[fronkalicious]

If Thompson remains coach at Essendon, I wonder what that means for Carlisle? Was placed in the sub vest, frozen out of the back line as well. Then there was the back and forth in the media as to whether he would be fit enough for the finals, so their relationship is obviously icy.

See he didn't even finish in the Top 10 at their Best and Fairest.

2nd rounder for him then??

 

[MJ_Dogs]

I remember Brian cook doing a talk to the company I worked for about 5 years ago. Not only did they review bomber but the put every player into 4 categories. Macca would have been a big player in this at the time. Can't remember the exact names but it was like...

1. s**t skills, s**t attitude
2. s**t skills, good attitude
3. Good skills, s**t attitude
4. Good skills, good attitude

1 were delisted or traded and 4 were obviously kept on.
2 and 3 were given time to prove themselves otherwise they knew they would be out the door. The rest is history.

Could something similar be happening at our club. Or this could have happened a year or two ago and now we are seeing players that were in 2 and 3 being pushed out. Either by offering s**t contracts in hope to be moved out or getting reamed behind the scenes.

Is Tutt 1 or 2?

 

[Gmod23]

I don't think we should go after any hawks that are stuck in their VFL side, i think there is more to them wanting to keep on topping up their list and spending their cash on free agents then they are leading on.

I remember they talked up their depth 10 years ago with the likes of Mitch Thorpe and a few others and none of them went on to have careers, just look at how well Savage is going at St.Kilda.

I think that any player over 21 that isn't a regular in their AFL side should be avoided by our recruiting staff.
Much better off targeting a young guy in the draft who has potential rather than someones discard. It would be great to get 2 early first rounders by the end of the trade period but we might be better off getting 3x2nd rounders. There looks like there will be some solid or high ceiling potential players available. If we get 2 of the 3 picks right, combined with recent excellent drafts we have a solid nucleus to go after a premiership this decade.