Marty Girvan (strength coach) Moved on.

[ben_1301]

You're from a triathlete background too?
Their program's were incompatible.
Anyway I hope you're right, and guys can run better and stay on the park.

Nope footballer turned cyclist.
You're right, their program's clashed high volume in the gym and high volume on the track is never going to work. But high volume on the track is the way football is moving. "You can run more than you think you can" Burgess
Clubs are realising that aerobic power is a lot bigger dictator of anaerobic power during a game than thought a few years ago.

 

[Pendles!]

I have an Ex Science degree, but I only really get fed bits and pieces of what goes on at the clubs. I've posted a bit about Collingwood in the health & fitness sub-forum here, I called it a few months ago Girvan would go

I've found the thread, there's some awesome info in there. Great stuff, should clear up some stuff to everyone here!

Everyone should give this a read.

www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/weight-athletic-training-afl.706268/page-9#post-35278871

 

[Bard]

That's interesting I assumed he was just the fall guy, it appears not.

I don't think we're in a position to not actually act upon this, and instead use a scapegoat. I doubt Girvan is the be-all end-all of the issue but they must have had some indication that he was not helping it. Ben_1301's statement pretty much solidifies this.

 

[ben_1301]

I'm not for a second saying Girvan isn't good at his job, it's just that the job is changing. He'd fit in perfectly at the Storm or Rebels, just not Aus rules.

 

[CFC2010]

I'm not for a second saying Girvan isn't good at his job, it's just that the job is changing. He'd fit in perfectly at the Storm or Rebels, just not Aus rules.

Hi ben_1301 a guy I work with is big on all sports especially soccer and he said the reason AFL players get so many injuries especially soft tissue and usually ACL's at the start of the season (unlike soccer) is that they have too much of a break over Christmas till the start of the season.

They come back after a long break do a few weeks pre season and then the body can't handle real match day games. They don't get the miles in the legs like you are suggesting.....it makes sense. Thanks for your input.

 

[ben_1301]

Hi ben_1301 a guy I work with is big on all sports especially soccer and he said the reason AFL players get so many injuries especially soft tissue and usually ACL's at the start of the season (unlike soccer) is that they have too much of a break over Christmas till the start of the season.

They come back after a long break do a few weeks pre season and then the body can't handle real match day games. They don't get the miles in the legs like you are suggesting.....it makes sense. Thanks for your input.

Look at Swan for example, plantar fascia is something middle aged men get when they decide they want to run a marathon in a few months, when the body is not conditioned to deal with a specific load then it breaks down!

You can tell by looking at Swan he doesn't have the kms in the legs, he does a big preseason he doesn't get plantar fascia, he doesn't have groin problems, you can't do this in the gym, you do it on the track!!

 

[CFC2010]

Look at Swan for example, plantar fascia is something middle aged men get when they decide they want to run a marathon in a few months, when the body is not conditioned to deal with a specific load then it breaks down!

You can tell by looking at Swan he doesn't have the kms in the legs, he does a big preseason he doesn't get plantar fascia, he doesn't have groin problems, you can't do this in the gym, you do it on the track!!

Having no pre season and glandular fever put him seriously behind the eight ball.
It just goes to prove what you are saying.........although his pre season in the clubs was pretty solid just didn't translate onto the football field.....LOL

 

[unplugged]

I'm not for a second saying Girvan isn't good at his job, it's just that the job is changing. He'd fit in perfectly at the Storm or Rebels, just not Aus rules.

If I'm not wrong he does also do weights training with Storm?

 

[loki04]

Nope footballer turned cyclist.
You're right, their program's clashed high volume in the gym and high volume on the track is never going to work. But high volume on the track is the way football is moving. "You can run more than you think you can" Burgess
Clubs are realising that aerobic power is a lot bigger dictator of anaerobic power during a game than thought a few years ago.

It's all cyclic.

Running whippets will come in vogue then a Lions 01-04 type big bodied aggressive team will start smashing and other will follow that trend.

 

[ben_1301]

It's all cyclic.

Running whippets will come in vogue then a Lions 01-04 type big bodied aggressive team will start smashing and other will follow that trend.

Yes, it does go in cycles but the general bigger picture over the last 30-40 years is the game's getting faster & players are running further into fatigue.

It might be possible to get away with moderate-big if the game plan allows (Think Sydney) but I feel big-big is well gone. Were Bris really that big or was it more just a overtly physical and aggressive style? Which you probably couldn't replicate within today's rules.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Good discussion

Appreciate what you're saying ben_1301 with too much focus being put on anaerobic strength rather than aerobic fitness, and that (in your opinion) there needs to be more work done out on the training track.

But isn't it the job of the strength coach to manage the weights program in the gym?

If there's not the right balance between aerobic / anaerobic training, that wouldn't seem to be the strength coach's fault, but rather the person overseeing the whole fitness program? (Ie: Davoren in Collingwood's case)

 

[ben_1301]

Good discussion

Appreciate what you're saying ben_1301 with too much focus being put on anaerobic strength rather than aerobic fitness, and that (in your opinion) there needs to be more work done out on the training track.

But isn't it the job of the strength coach to manage the weights program in the gym?

If there's not the right balance between aerobic / anaerobic training, that wouldn't seem to be the strength coach's fault, but rather the person overseeing the whole fitness program? (Ie: Davoren in Collingwood's case)

It's not an easy environment for Davoren to enter, club s&c teams are full of egos who feel they need to remain relevant to keep their jobs. And as I was informed, it was a specific movement that was thought to be a significant factor in the hamstring injuries & that movement was being prescribed by Girvan.

North have got it spot on, Steve Saunders oversees every aspect of the athletes preparation, and look at their injury list over the last 3-4 years, best in the league by a fair margin.

 

[76woodenspooners]

It's not an easy environment for Davoren to enter, club s&c teams are full of egos who feel they need to remain relevant to keep their jobs.

Good point, but IMHO one of the most important roles of a leader (Davoren in this case) is to cut through all the BS associated with egos. Every healthy person has an ego, but it needs to be tapped for good rather than evil.

And as I was informed, it was a specific movement that was thought to be a significant factor in the hamstring injuries & that movement was being prescribed by Girvan.

Out of interest when were you informed of that?

 

[ben_1301]

Good point, but IMHO one of the most important roles of a leader (Davoren in this case) is to cut through all the BS associated with egos. Every healthy person has an ego, but it needs to be tapped for good rather than evil.



Out of interest when were you informed of that?

Yes, that's why Darven also has been put under the spotlight.
I was told only a few days ago that that's the conclusion they came to, but I predicted this result months ago in the fitness forum here.

 

[loki04]

Yes, it does go in cycles but the general bigger picture over the last 30-40 years is the game's getting faster & players are running further into fatigue.

It might be possible to get away with moderate-big if the game plan allows (Think Sydney) but I feel big-big is well gone. Were Bris really that big or was it more just a overtly physical and aggressive style? Which you probably couldn't replicate within today's rules.

It was both Brisbane across the board were all big bodied, Geelong admitted to trying to emulate them back in early 07.

In today current trend you are right, big like Lions were is probably on the way out, until a team puts together a list and game plan that can utilise those types and starts winning then it will all swing back.
WC and Swans in 05/06 were closer to todays style imo that lasted until Geelong and Saints came on with Lionesque type lists and game plans (Saints under GT very attacking).

Being bigger doesn't mean you have zero endurance, Buckley himself was 92 - 94kg, 186kg and ran 20 kms a game 23% of that was sprinting and 0% registered standing still. Granted he was a freak but he trained and built up his tank to carry and do it.

The way Butters had us our elite mids were only running 16kms a game, well down on the figures that the elite AFL players were doing late 90s and early 00s.

So to say they are fitter now is a flat out phurphy if anything the game is swing back to less burst fitness and more endurance running which will then have coaches looking at ways to ware down players over 4 quarters one way of doing that is physically crash and bash footy ie big bodied players back in vogue.

Anyway this is all my theory on it, I do agree with you just making the point it will all swing back eventually.

 

[Robroy22]

There's an easy way to swing it back again....it's called unlimited rotations. That way the aerobic freaks can run as much as they want and the larger burst players (e.g.. Swannie) can run and rest as much as they need.

Oh that's right, the AFL got rid of that when the Pies had their Brisbanesque team.....too bad.

 

[Art Corvelay]

The Weapon is available

 

[dubber]

The pies have also sacked their doctor it seems.

 

[CFC2010]

The pies have also sacked their doctor it seems.

If it is the same Doctor who sent Bally back on the field in that train wreck of a game against the scum then good riddance!