Ukraine on verge of civil war?

[Zidane98]

Ever heard of the Australian Broadcasting Corporation?

You might be surprised to learn where they get their funding.

And which newspaper do they own again? They get minimal funding and are a minor player in the media market here.

 

[Smiling Buddha]

And which newspaper do they own again?

Which newspaper do RT own again?

 

[Zidane98]

Which newspaper do RT own again?

Pravda is owned by the government. Same thing.

 

[Smiling Buddha]

Incorrect again.

 

[Long Live HFC]

lol! there's just no nuance with these guys! PBS is just like RT too! BBC as well rofl.

 

[awaremind]

This is some Ukrainian propaganda getting about, so many of them are rabid nationalsts/racists/hate-filled fascists its disturbing that they are being encouraged by us and europe and typical that the usa would support them.



be warned its a bit disturbing.

 

[corbomite]

This is some Ukrainian propaganda getting about, so many of them are rabid nationalsts/racists/hate-filled fascists its disturbing that they are being encouraged by us and europe and typical that the usa would support them.



be warned its a bit disturbing.

I'll tell you what's disturbing honey, that people like you are free to roam the streets without an escort.

One can only assume that you're Russian, Serb or equivalent - I hope this explains the bias, otherwise the alternative is perturbing.
You and your fellow travellers, mantra intact, scour the net for memes and Russian propaganda to justify your ridiculous, dogged stance.
You Putinites are a determined sub-species; you'll believe anything that diminutive thug puts out.

And you glean most of your info from RT! haha, which, you should know, comes straight out of Putin's rectum.
As does Pravda and the other pro-Russian junk on the net. Putin's anal canal is a congested area.
To even compare Pravda with western media is beyond belief - has anyone read it? Balanced?

The facts are clear to every intelligent person in the world - but not to the douches here. Vlad loves you lot.
Ukraine is a sovereign country. Putin invaded it. There were no rebels/separatists. Fake ones were trucked in by Putin. He caused the conflict.
His goons shot down the civilian plane. His natural, arrogant cause of action is to blame others.
A thief and murderer - this creature is barely human.

That you fanboiz deify him indicates you don't have two neurones to rub together.
Perhaps you can get together and greet him in Brisbane ... and throw your knickers at him.

 

[Smiling Buddha]

Slightly off-topic but those 'beheadings' were fake as *. Look into them for yourself.

 

[awaremind]

I'll tell you what's disturbing honey, that people like you are free to roam the streets without an escort.

One can only assume that you're Russian, Serb or equivalent - I hope this explains the bias, otherwise the alternative is perturbing.
You and your fellow travellers, mantra intact, scour the net for memes and Russian propaganda to justify your ridiculous, dogged stance.
You Putinites are a determined sub-species; you'll believe anything that diminutive thug puts out.

And you glean most of your info from RT! haha, which, you should know, comes straight out of Putin's rectum.
As does Pravda and the other pro-Russian junk on the net. Putin's anal canal is a congested area.
To even compare Pravda with western media is beyond belief - has anyone read it? Balanced?

The facts are clear to every intelligent person in the world - but not to the douches here. Vlad loves you lot.
Ukraine is a sovereign country. Putin invaded it. There were no rebels/separatists. Fake ones were trucked in by Putin. He caused the conflict.
His goons shot down the civilian plane. His natural, arrogant cause of action is to blame others.
A thief and murderer - this creature is barely human.

That you fanboiz deify him indicates you don't have two neurones to rub together.
Perhaps you can get together and greet him in Brisbane ... and throw your knickers at him.

Apparently this is real UKR right wing propaganda- a force which is holding thier parliment to ransom through violent protests surrounding thier own parliment building.
Have you read western media these days - its pure propaganda too. I'm not russian, serb or anything like that, I just don't like western bully boy politics when they take the high moral ground. Putin just throws it back in thier face which makes him no better, but at least he's not thier little bitch. You are another hate-filled polish or western UKR nazi ? You make no actual sense in your posts, just angry personal attacks. Euromaydan facebook website is full of stupid angry girls like you. Using derogatory terms like moskali is all the rage on there, its a sure sign of rampant racist fascism.

 

[corbomite]

What, I thought you liked Poles. Didn't you clean their houses for a few weeks? Silly me.
More of the nazi stuff ... isn't that getting a little tiresome? Expand your efforts.

Do you actually know what nazism is? (and this notwithstanding the fact that Ukrainians fought the Germans in WW2 as part of the Sov. Union)
FYI political nazism is a form of statism: effectively denoting a totalitarian state, a concentration of power at the expense of individual freedom.
In Russia, this political absolutism is a continuance; from absolute monarchies (Tsars), to bastardised Communism, to the oligarchies, with the common denominator remaining - tyranny and suppression of the people.
Sound familiar? This is Putler's Russia.

When has there been a real election there? Any contenders still alive?
You do recall that the cause of this trouble began when Ukraine wanted to move away from Russia and towards true democracy?
So before you accuse Ukrainians of being nazis, get your facts straight or be quiet.
You're making a fool of yourself.

 

[awaremind]

Wow a post where you actually made a little bit of sense... but not that much really. I'll tear your post apart in the morning.

 

[Zidane98]

good write up on the situation with russian media:

http://www.newrepublic.com/node/118782

puts putin in a corner that he can't back out of.

 

[awaremind]

What, I thought you liked Poles. Didn't you clean their houses for a few weeks? Silly me.
More of the nazi stuff ... isn't that getting a little tiresome? Expand your efforts.

Do you actually know what nazism is? (and this notwithstanding the fact that Ukrainians fought the Germans in WW2 as part of the Sov. Union)
FYI political nazism is a form of statism: effectively denoting a totalitarian state, a concentration of power at the expense of individual freedom.
In Russia, this political absolutism is a continuance; from absolute monarchies (Tsars), to bastardised Communism, to the oligarchies, with the common denominator remaining - tyranny and suppression of the people.
Sound familiar? This is Putler's Russia.

When has there been a real election there? Any contenders still alive?
You do recall that the cause of this trouble began when Ukraine wanted to move away from Russia and towards true democracy?
So before you accuse Ukrainians of being nazis, get your facts straight or be quiet.
You're making a fool of yourself.

The right sektor in the Ukraine is a very real force, just about enough has been said about it though.
Putins Russia was enabled by the USA's installing of a kleptocracy much worse than his is. After years of Yeltzins total incompetence Putin had gone a long way to reinvigorating Russia's economy, and is now a major force for the destruction of the USD as world reserve currency, which is probably the number 1 reason he is hated by the powers that be in the west. Putin was allowing some pretty big rallies against him in documentaries that I saw on foreign correspondent I think, not exactly North Korea.
Ukraine's coup/revolution isn't bringing them freedom and prosperity, its ruining them economically, socially and politically. Masked ss symbol wearing chain swinging thugs are not beacons of democracy when they are surrounding the Rada, and when given guns and sent across the country they are not liberators. Of course not all Ukrainians are Nazi's and many of the army either surrendered pretty easily (if they weren't shot by the extreme right first) of joined the seperatists. Poor Ukraine wants democracy gets mob rule! 1 step forward three steps backward.
In nazi Ukraine, Nazi's accuse themselves of being Nazis.
You can bomb the world to pieces but you can't bomb the world to peace.

Navalny is alive and relatively well...

BTW what is your profession, I'm guessing High school student.

 

[Long Live HFC]

is there nothing the US reserve currency can't do!? rofl.

 

[Zidane98]

The right sektor in the Ukraine is a very real force, just about enough has been said about it though.
Putins Russia was enabled by the USA's installing of a kleptocracy much worse than his is. After years of Yeltzins total incompetence Putin had gone a long way to reinvigorating Russia's economy, and is now a major force for the destruction of the USD as world reserve currency, which is probably the number 1 reason he is hated by the powers that be in the west. Putin was allowing some pretty big rallies against him in documentaries that I saw on foreign correspondent I think, not exactly North Korea.
Ukraine's coup/revolution isn't bringing them freedom and prosperity, russia is ruining them economically, socially and politically. Masked ss symbol wearing chain swinging thugs are not beacons of democracy when they are surrounding the Rada, and when given guns and sent across the country they are not liberators. Of course not all Ukrainians are Nazi's and many of the army either surrendered pretty easily (if they weren't shot by the extreme right first) of joined the seperatists. Poor Ukraine wants democracy gets mob rule! 1 step forward three steps backward.
In nazi Ukraine, Nazi's accuse themselves of being Nazis.
You can bomb the world to pieces but you can't bomb the world to peace.

Navalny is alive and relatively well...

BTW what is your profession, I'm guessing High school student.

EFA.

Ukraine is not a Nazi state, that is 100% Russian propaganda.

 

[awaremind]

EFA.

Ukraine is not a Nazi state, that is 100% Russian propaganda.

Well not yet, and that was joke but there are a bunch of them running around doing stuff, and filming it and its their own propaganda - as is the poster above.

 

[Slax]

EFA.

Ukraine is not a Nazi state, that is 100% Russian propaganda.

It's a hell of a lot closer to a Nazi state than anything resembling a democratic state.

Also worth noting that once again the USA intellegence agencies have produced lies that her allies have gladly gone along with. It has come out from the German intellegence agency (someone I actually do believe isindependent in this) that the Russians didn't supply the missile that shot down MH17, just as they claimed.

http://www.theage.com.au/world/pror...enger-plane-says-germany-20141020-118i9u.html

From the start of the investigation into MH17 I have always maintained that the Russian version of events is closer to the truth than the USA led version, the Germans are now starting to confirm this. The false information coming out of the CIA now is so bad that anyone now relying on it to make a policy decision is showing that they are incompetent.

 

[Long Live HFC]

I have always maintained that the Russian version of events is closer to the truth than the USA led version, the Germans are now starting to confirm this.

huh? other than the claim that they did not provide the BUK to rebels, what other russian claims do you feel are accurate? any of these?

http://www.newrepublic.com/node/118782

 

[Smiling Buddha]

From the start of the investigation into MH17 I have always maintained that the Russian version of events is closer to the truth than the USA led version, the Germans are now starting to confirm this. The false information coming out of the CIA now is so bad that anyone now relying on it to make a policy decision is showing that they are COMPROMISED.

EFA.

 

[corbomite]

It's a hell of a lot closer to a Nazi state than anything resembling a democratic state.

Also worth noting that once again the USA intellegence agencies have produced lies that her allies have gladly gone along with. It has come out from the German intellegence agency (someone I actually do believe isindependent in this) that the Russians didn't supply the missile that shot down MH17, just as they claimed.

http://www.theage.com.au/world/pror...enger-plane-says-germany-20141020-118i9u.html

From the start of the investigation into MH17 I have always maintained that the Russian version of events is closer to the truth than the USA led version, the Germans are now starting to confirm this. The false information coming out of the CIA now is so bad that anyone now relying on it to make a policy decision is showing that they are incompetent.

Omg are you serious?
MEDIC!!!

 

[Zidane98]

The Russian version of events.

Let's see:

-Claimed flight MH 17 was directed over conflict area on purpose.
Bullshit. The plane was on its normal course and the only deviation was requested by the crew to avoid thunderstorms to the south (corroborated by weather satellite photos). Another claim was the crew wanted a higher altitude and were not allowed by ATC to do so. More bs, ATC requested MH17 climb to 35,000 feet but denied the request saying they were unable to.

-Claimed there was a Ukrainian SU-25 on radar that "shot" down MH-17 with gunfire at 33,000 feet.
Couple of problems with this. Firstly, the SU-25 has a maximum speed of less than the 494 knots 9M-MRD was travelling at when shot down. So any attack would have to be head on. Secondly, the aircraft has a maximum altitude of 23,000 feet and the guns which it is equipped with have a range of 2000ft.
Adding to this Russia's very own ATC operator states that the only thing he sees on primary radar is MH 17 falling apart (this was what the Russians stupidly tried to claim was a fighter plane).

-Claimed that the intercepts of the rebels talking on the phone must be fake because the youtube video was dated 16th July at 9.30pm local time.
Amateur mistake by the good ole Russians on this one. All videos subtract one day from the upload date when being uploaded. So the video was actually uploaded 9.30pm 17th of July.

-Claimed the aircraft was attacked by Ukranians who thought it was Putin's plane because the colours were similar (lol).
Putin's plane was nowhere near the area and looks nothing like a Boeing 777.

-Claimed the photos of the BUK being transported minus one missile expended were not in rebel territory.
Conclusively debunked here: https://www.metabunk.org/threads/claim-buk-launcher-trucked-out-of-ukraine.3977/

-Trying to say it isn't supplying the rebels.
There's a whole plethora of satellite photos that say otherwise.

Honestly, anyone that actually believes that the Russians are being more truthful about the events in Eastern Ukraine realistically needs to see a psychiatrist. No reasonable person would come to that conclusion.

 

[Max Rockatansky]

The Russian version of events.

Let's see:

-Claimed flight MH 17 was directed over conflict area on purpose.
Bullshit. The plane was on its normal course and the only deviation was requested by the crew to avoid thunderstorms to the south (corroborated by weather satellite photos). Another claim was the crew wanted a higher altitude and were not allowed by ATC to do so. More bs, ATC requested MH17 climb to 35,000 feet but denied the request saying they were unable to.

-Claimed there was a Ukrainian SU-25 on radar that "shot" down MH-17 with gunfire at 33,000 feet.
Couple of problems with this. Firstly, the SU-25 has a maximum speed of less than the 494 knots 9M-MRD was travelling at when shot down. So any attack would have to be head on. Secondly, the aircraft has a maximum altitude of 23,000 feet and the guns which it is equipped with have a range of 2000ft.
Adding to this Russia's very own ATC operator states that the only thing he sees on primary radar is MH 17 falling apart (this was what the Russians stupidly tried to claim was a fighter plane).

-Claimed that the intercepts of the rebels talking on the phone must be fake because the youtube video was dated 16th July at 9.30pm local time.
Amateur mistake by the good ole Russians on this one. All videos subtract one day from the upload date when being uploaded. So the video was actually uploaded 9.30pm 17th of July.

-Claimed the aircraft was attacked by Ukranians who thought it was Putin's plane because the colours were similar (lol).
Putin's plane was nowhere near the area and looks nothing like a Boeing 777.

-Claimed the photos of the BUK being transported minus one missile expended were not in rebel territory.
Conclusively debunked here: https://www.metabunk.org/threads/claim-buk-launcher-trucked-out-of-ukraine.3977/

-Trying to say it isn't supplying the rebels.
There's a whole plethora of satellite photos that say otherwise.

Honestly, anyone that actually believes that the Russians are being more truthful about the events in Eastern Ukraine realistically needs to see a psychiatrist. No reasonable person would come to that conclusion.

Omg are you serious?
MEDIC!!!

 

[Slax]

huh? other than the claim that they did not provide the BUK to rebels, what other russian claims do you feel are accurate? any of these?

http://www.newrepublic.com/node/118782

So our media is so much more trustworthy than the Russian media? Have you watched commercial tv current affairs programs, high quality journalism aren't they.

 

[Long Live HFC]

So our media is so much more trustworthy than the Russian media?

it's not great, but yeah it's still better.

Have you watched commercial tv current affairs programs

not if i can help it, lol.

 

[Slax]

The Russian version of events.

Let's see:

-Claimed flight MH 17 was directed over conflict area on purpose.
Bullshit. The plane was on its normal course and the only deviation was requested by the crew to avoid thunderstorms to the south (corroborated by weather satellite photos). Another claim was the crew wanted a higher altitude and were not allowed by ATC to do so. More bs, ATC requested MH17 climb to 35,000 feet but denied the request saying they were unable to.

-Claimed there was a Ukrainian SU-25 on radar that "shot" down MH-17 with gunfire at 33,000 feet.
Couple of problems with this. Firstly, the SU-25 has a maximum speed of less than the 494 knots 9M-MRD was travelling at when shot down. So any attack would have to be head on. Secondly, the aircraft has a maximum altitude of 23,000 feet and the guns which it is equipped with have a range of 2000ft.
Adding to this Russia's very own ATC operator states that the only thing he sees on primary radar is MH 17 falling apart (this was what the Russians stupidly tried to claim was a fighter plane).

-Claimed that the intercepts of the rebels talking on the phone must be fake because the youtube video was dated 16th July at 9.30pm local time.
Amateur mistake by the good ole Russians on this one. All videos subtract one day from the upload date when being uploaded. So the video was actually uploaded 9.30pm 17th of July.

-Claimed the aircraft was attacked by Ukranians who thought it was Putin's plane because the colours were similar (lol).
Putin's plane was nowhere near the area and looks nothing like a Boeing 777.

-Claimed the photos of the BUK being transported minus one missile expended were not in rebel territory.
Conclusively debunked here: https://www.metabunk.org/threads/claim-buk-launcher-trucked-out-of-ukraine.3977/

-Trying to say it isn't supplying the rebels.
There's a whole plethora of satellite photos that say otherwise.

Honestly, anyone that actually believes that the Russians are being more truthful about the events in Eastern Ukraine realistically needs to see a psychiatrist. No reasonable person would come to that conclusion.

Let's see some of the claims made by the West:

- Missile fired from Russia. Flase

- Russian troops fired missile. False

- Russian supplied missile used. False

- Russian troops have entered Ukraine. No evidence yet supplied, plenty of Russian troops by the border, but no evidence that they actually entered Ukraine territory that is verifiable has been provided.

- Rebels looted the crash site and profited from it. Evidence used by western media has been shown to be fake.

- Rebels blocked access to site. The rebels requested certain guarantees from the Ukraine government regarding a cease fire agreement in the region, which the Ukraine government initially was not willing to give, as soon as it was given access was granted. the rebels didn't want recovery teams and media in the middle of a war zone.

- Rebels broke the ceasefire agreement putting recovery workers lives in danger. False, the Ukraine government were the ones who restarted hostilities and breached the ceasefire area, once this happened it is open slather.

The whole campaign by NATO is for Ukraine to enter and NATO once again breach agreements with Russia. If you don't believe it why then did NATO refuse to send observers to the Crimea referrendum? Because they knew that it would be a Yes vote to succeede from Ukraine. Instead they got the puppet that is the UN security council to condemn it and used it as a trigger to impose sanctions.

Why also did NATO so readily recognise an unelected government that siezed power in a coup. NATO signed agreements with an unelected government, but refuse to acknowledge the Hamas government in Palestine territories which were democratically elected.

The West has provoked this conflict from the start to enable NATO to meet their desired objectives of applying pressure on Russia and allowing Western companies to pillage Eastern Europe.