Who needs to effin stand up?

[Robroy22]

Whilst I totally agree that everyone at the club and the support staff needs to step up, experience tells me that key people will set the standard.

It will sound strange but our young Rucks will start the show. Witts and Grundy must be our "bash brothers". They must get more and more aggressive at the ball and at the bodies of opponents till other rucks fear them rather than acknowledging their "potential".

Clokey must take the next step to being a "power forward"...he knows he can out mark every defender 1:1 but when he is outnumbered he "has to hurt at least one of them" every time they try to block or hinder his run at the ball. For too long (since Dawes and Browny) left he has tried to cope with multiple defenders legally. Now it is time to look at tapes of Plugger Lockett and make defenders wary of standing too close to the big fella. (His dad should be able to help him out with that stuff as well)

If our big blokes get aggressive, others will follow. And an aggressive, hard running young side will gain confidence quickly. We may not have as much talent as some other sides but a fit, aggressive young side will cause havoc if sides all try to play the skilful stuff that Hawthorn plays.

Step Up Pies
(God you've gotta love Maxy....just watched his last game against Essendon. Yeah we lost but he came back on with a buggered ankle and inspired his young backs for the second half.)

 

[Rorzza]

At the start 2014 I was looking forward to the development of Seedsman, Thomas and Fasolo, a year later i still am! I thought all three stagnated this season. Thomas and Seedsman both had interrupted pre-seasons, and Fasolo was a disappointment. Fasolo did have that injury mid year. 2015 for those three players is make or break for mine.

Thomas in the absence of Beams shone in 2013, he needs to get his fitness back and repeat the dose, I do not see why he could not average 25 disposals a game this year through the middle if fit. Seedsman is so important to us, his foot skills are very good, I would like to see him play on the wing replacing Lumumba. His delivery into the forward fifty is vitally important. Fasolo has exception skills and talent, he just needs to deliver. He could play through he center if he had a tank, I hope he develops one in the off-season.

 

[didaksrightfoot]

It starts from the top.

Bucks- I think he is a great "big picture" guy, and am happy with the direction he wants to take the club, in terms of bringing through youth, and focusing on contested footy. But I am yet to be convinced about how good a tactician he is, and whether he can make good decisions on the run during games.

Pendles - nothing wrong with him as a player. But he needs to become a great captain as well, particularly with such a young leadership group around him. On top of leading by example, which he does, he needs to be vocal and rally the troops when/before it is needed. It will come with experience - but one of the best things about Maxy was that he seemed to pre-empt problems in our defensive structure.

Cloke - not so much his kicking for goal, which (from memory) was much better this year - but his approach to the game and his role in the forward line. He needs to be better at realising when he should "stay home" and try to win the 1:1 (or 1:2/3) contests, and when it would be better to push up the ground, run off his man and just get involved more in the flow of the game.

Swan - please let last year be an aberration just due to injury.

Sidey - Beams is gone, Swans role is changing - this is the year to jump to that consistently elite level.

The Backline - one (or more) of Reid/Brown/Keefe/Frost/Langdon/Goldsack - really needs to step up and marshall the troops. Our biggest problem in defence in the latter half of the season was consistency. When the going got tough (which it did frequently when the midfield wasn't stopping any flow), our structures fell away and we gave away too many easy goals.

Grundy - I was quite impressed with Witts last year, and I think he was clearly our better ruck all season, while Brodie plateaud in his 2nd year (not unusual). Grundy needs to step up and grab hold of that spot in the 22, and clearly show that we can play the 2 of them together with success.

 

[Bring_Back_Brad]

I don't think that Swan needs to stand up. he is now 30, and has enough runs on the board. he has been by far the most consistent midfielder in the comp for the last 6 years. ( exception to 2014 ) which was hampered by injury. we can't expect him to carry the team now.

Well actually what he needs to do is stand up and be a leader, because he has shied away from this is whole career. As the most senior player on the list, and the most decorated it's really time he grew up and be a role model for the new generation coming through. That's what maxy is getting at. It's not just about his on field performances, it's what he does to encourage and discipline the new players coming through, and help gel the team to be unified in achieving success. In that regard it's probably Swan who needs to stand up more than anyone else on the team.

 

[Black_White]

It looks as if the first to step up should be the President.
While it is morally correct to stand up to the AFL and try and mitigate the new football department spending tax, the simple fact is that clubs like Hawthorn are forging ahead by spending what is required and accepting that the tax is now a part of winning Premierships.
As it stands today I don't think we even have a ruck coach and we are at least one assistant coach down.
So we are starting behind even before pre season starts.
Our opponents have a head start because our President is being pig headed.
Step up Ed. Forget every other social engineering experiment you and the AFL have our members money involved in, and use our money, our supporter power to win a flag.
Or two.

 

[Yezeha]

Travis Cloke:
You're getting payed close to a million a year. You never had any excuse to drop in the first place. YOU NEED TO EFFIN STAND UP!!!

Dane Swan:
You may be 30 mate. But players like Hodge, Mitchell, Burgoyne, Ablett, Harvey and Judd are older than you and are still playing at a very high level. Bally is an exception as he spent his whole career using his body as a battering ram underneath packs of players trying to extract the ball for you. You're a brownlow medallist and a premiership player. You're surrounded by young blokes and whether you like it or not, YOU NEED TO EFFIN STAND UP!!!

Clinton Young and Jessie White:
You came from other clubs unwanted by them. We offered you a new home and a fresh start but some of the things you have dished up this year have been absolute dog-s**t. Is this how you repay us? Jesse, you're nearly 200 centimetres tall and more than 100 kilograms in weight. USE THAT ******* MASSIVE FRAME OF YOUR'S TO POSITIVE EFFECT FOR ONCE, MAYBE?!?! Clinton, you've got a lethal left-boot on you. Or at least that's what Hawthorn said when they wilfully let you go. MAYBE USE THAT MASSIVE KICK TO OUR ADVANTAGE EVERY NOW AND THEN?!?! And also, when you have the chance to take a simple chest-mark for a shot on goal that could have won us a game, HOW ABOUT YOU TAKE THAT BLOODY SIMPLE CHEST-MARK FIRST?!?!
BOTH OF YOU NEED TO EFFIN STAND UP!!!

Ben Reid:
You're an absolute gun. You're an elite key defender and a dangerous forward at the same time. CAN YOU PLEASE LITERALLY EFFIN STAND UP WITHOUT RUPTURING YOUR ACL OR TEARING A MUSCLE PLEASE?!?! That would be appreciated. WE NEED YOU ON THE BLOODY PARK!

This drunken rant is over.

 

[sirene]

Everyone of us; I am good with that; If I am paying my membership I should step up with the boys....but it does piss me off that they never come over to our side; win or lose...

 

[Seedsfan]

Hine actually get players who can use the ball

 

[domin8tors]

Thats OK if he continues to work hard and contribute his part to the team. If not then he shouldn't be gifted games due to his past. Another year like the last and he should be dropped until he earns his spot back.

I don't believe that he was gifted games, apologies as I don't recall when but Bucks asked about Swan and Bucks essentially said that he had to ask Swan to stay on the park despite his injuries that he was carrying as he was to important to the team. so I think to judge a player whom should not have been playing. basically playing at 60% and he still dominated some games is a bit harsh. no I don't believe that you gift players however if he is still contributing to the team. and Bucks goes on about Culture then to not play him would rip the culture apart as it would be denying what is arguably one of our top 5 players in the history of the club.

 

[domin8tors]

Well actually what he needs to do is stand up and be a leader, because he has shied away from this is whole career. As the most senior player on the list, and the most decorated it's really time he grew up and be a role model for the new generation coming through. That's what maxy is getting at. It's not just about his on field performances, it's what he does to encourage and discipline the new players coming through, and help gel the team to be unified in achieving success. In that regard it's probably Swan who needs to stand up more than anyone else on the team.

I understand what your saying but have to disagree. so long as he is not disruptive to the players then he should go about it they way that works for him best. only need to look at Griffin and how the captaincy didn't sit well with him. some players do not feel comfortable having official titles etc. so unless you have knowledge of the day to to activities how he mentors kids inside the club ? then let lying dogs lay.

 

[Implanttheseed]

Swan
Elliot
Adams
Greenwood
Williams
Moore
Cloke
Reid
Pendles
Keeffe
Brown
Frost
Oxley
Fas
Varcoe
Crisp
Sidey
Seedsman
Young
Sinclair
Witts
Grundy
Kennedy
Broomhead
Frost
White
Gault
Goldsack
Caff
Shazza
Freeman
Armstrong
Karnezis
Cox
Pick 5
Pick 30
Pick 40whatever
Bucks
Burns
Harvey
Eade
Pert


OUR MEDICAL STAFF

Could've just said everyone

 

[Schraderbrau]

Travis Cloke:
You're getting payed close to a million a year. You never had any excuse to drop in the first place. YOU NEED TO EFFIN STAND UP!!!

I find it really difficult to criticize Cloke for two reasons.

First the midfield kicking to him this season has been diabolical. In this modern age where almost all teams either play a +1 or have defenders who liberally zone off their men it is impossible for a power forward like Cloke to have any success when the ball comes down slowly and/or is delivered to him poorly.

Second, our lack of an effective second key target means that opposition teams can more effectively double team Cloke.

tbh other than Buddy, I doubt any other key forward in the comp would be able to do any better than Cloke given the conditions he has to play in. The only think you can be really critical of him is goalkicking

 

[Unknown Identity]

Players that need to EFFIN stand up.

Travis "I'm worth 900K" Cloke - Seriously, signed a mega contract and went to $hit.
Alex Fasolo - Almost a last chance season for him, trade bait if he doesn't step up.
Jarryd Blair - If you're going to play the small forward role, 20-25 goals thanks.
Bill Davoren - Keep our EFFIN players on the park.

 

[jackcass]

It would be easier to post who does not need to step up.

Agree. Everyone other than Pendles and Sidey.

That's not meant as a knock on the Witts, Frost, Langdon types who showed a bit in 2014. Just that they've got more capacity for improvement and 2015 is as good a time as any to unleash the potential.

 

[mike123]

Who needs to stand up because they've been poor at times:

Jarryd Blair
Travis Cloke
Clinton Young
Alex Fasolo
Jessie White
Lachlan Keeffe (I still rate him, He's got huge potential)

Who we need to stand up because of their importance:

Steele Sidebottom (continue last years form)
Taylor Adams
Tom Langdon
Ben Reid
Nathan Brown
Levi Greenwood
Travis Varcoe

 

[Yezeha]

I find it really difficult to criticize Cloke for two reasons.

First the midfield kicking to him this season has been diabolical. In this modern age where almost all teams either play a +1 or have defenders who liberally zone off their men it is impossible for a power forward like Cloke to have any success when the ball comes down slowly and/or is delivered to him poorly.

Second, our lack of an effective second key target means that opposition teams can more effectively double team Cloke.

tbh other than Buddy, I doubt any other key forward in the comp would be able to do any better than Cloke given the conditions he has to play in. The only think you can be really critical of him is goalkicking

I thought he was an aerobic beast. If he's getting double-teamed deep, why doesn't he do the sensible thing and try to run his opponent ragged? The reason he was getting towelled up during the first half of the year is because he sat inside the 50 and rarely left. His best game of the year in my opinion was his game against the Saints in round 11 when he collected 20+ touches and also kicked 5. Just a week earlier, he had been towelled up by Mackenzie (who admittedly has a fairly good record against Cloke) but against the Saints, he got on his bike and presented up the ground.

The scragging by opposition defenders still does mine and very likely his head in. Seriously, Daniel ******* Talia. from the crows would probably win the reverse coleman if the umpires actually picked up the amount jumper holding and man-handling he does on Cloke and other big forwards. Still, this re-inforces my point that Cloke should have been pushing up the ground.

 

[The Pied Piper]

Need to get the basic elements right. Teams just dined out on us this year with loose man back, which we allowed to happen too often, which worked against us too often. Blind kicks out of congestion to said loose man, hundreds of times, was not the best tactic under those circumstances. Bomb fwd to Cloke when double-teamed is not a great tactic. Year after year, we just never seem to learn from this. Having Reid out did not help, but you gotta work with what you've got & go with plans b,c,d,efghijklm. Handballing to blokes in worse positions is not a great idea, three men up to spoil with no man down, their crumber gets easy goal, not a good idea, three blokes going in to tackle when ball gets out easy to free player. AWARENESS, and knowing your roles. Then there's the dropped pudds up fwd. If we can fix those things, it will be a step up.

 

[Schraderbrau]

I thought he was an aerobic beast. If he's getting double-teamed deep, why doesn't he do the sensible thing and try to run his opponent ragged? The reason he was getting towelled up during the first half of the year is because he sat inside the 50 and rarely left. His best game of the year in my opinion was his game against the Saints in round 11 when he collected 20+ touches and also kicked 5. Just a week earlier, he had been towelled up by Mackenzie (who admittedly has a fairly good record against Cloke) but against the Saints, he got on his bike and presented up the ground.

The scragging by opposition defenders still does mine and very likely his head in. Seriously, Daniel ******* Talia. from the crows would probably win the reverse coleman if the umpires actually picked up the amount jumper holding and man-handling he does on Cloke and other big forwards. Still, this re-inforces my point that Cloke should have been pushing up the ground.

the issue is if Cloke pushes up the ground who is behind him. Without Reid we have noone, White failed this season in that role

 

[jackcass]

I thought he was an aerobic beast. If he's getting double-teamed deep, why doesn't he do the sensible thing and try to run his opponent ragged? The reason he was getting towelled up during the first half of the year is because he sat inside the 50 and rarely left. His best game of the year in my opinion was his game against the Saints in round 11 when he collected 20+ touches and also kicked 5. Just a week earlier, he had been towelled up by Mackenzie (who admittedly has a fairly good record against Cloke) but against the Saints, he got on his bike and presented up the ground.

The scragging by opposition defenders still does mine and very likely his head in. Seriously, Daniel ******* Talia. from the crows would probably win the reverse coleman if the umpires actually picked up the amount jumper holding and man-handling he does on Cloke and other big forwards. Still, this re-inforces my point that Cloke should have been pushing up the ground.

Cloke apparently had some knee tendinitis issues this season. Hopefully that's addressed over the off season and he's back to that aerobic beast in 2015.

 

[Visions]

the issue is if Cloke pushes up the ground who is behind him. Without Reid we have noone, White failed this season in that role

There has in the history of the AFL only been one gameplan that was focused solely around one player. That was Pagans Paddock and the player was Wayne Carey.

As we have no one to help Cloke out, I can't see why we can't do something similar as the above? Cloke definitely isn't Carey, but having the whole 50 to himself will play to his strengths. Also tell him not to push up the ground when defending either. Let him stay at home, and if the defender want to risk it and push up into an attacking type role, good luck to him.

 

[didaksrightfoot]

There has in the history of the AFL only been one gameplan that was focused solely around one player. That was Pagans Paddock and the player was Wayne Carey.

As we have no one to help Cloke out, I can't see why we can't do something similar as the above? Cloke definitely isn't Carey, but having the whole 50 to himself will play to his strengths. Also tell him not to push up the ground when defending either. Let him stay at home, and if the defender want to risk it and push up into an attacking type role, good luck to him.

I disagree - that doesn't play to his strengths at all. (or at least - not to his best role within the team/forward structure).

Cloke may be stronger than most defenders he comes up against - but in modern day footy that is no longer much of an advantage for a forward. Firstly umpiring, at least subjectively, appears to favour the defenders in those situations. And secondly - and we see this all to often in Collingwood games - defensive structure are now so much better at having a loose man, covering space and having a 3rd man helping out in any 1-1 contests. Trying to kick to Cloke one-out just plays into the defence's hands.

 

[mike123]

Need to get the basic elements right. Teams just dined out on us this year with loose man back, which we allowed to happen too often, which worked against us too often.

In the first half of the year when we had Maxwell it was quite the opposite.

 

[mike123]

There has in the history of the AFL only been one gameplan that was focused solely around one player. That was Pagans Paddock and the player was Wayne Carey.

As we have no one to help Cloke out, I can't see why we can't do something similar as the above? Cloke definitely isn't Carey, but having the whole 50 to himself will play to his strengths. Also tell him not to push up the ground when defending either. Let him stay at home, and if the defender want to risk it and push up into an attacking type role, good luck to him.

Ben Reid says hi

 

[Robroy22]

There has in the history of the AFL only been one gameplan that was focused solely around one player. That was Pagans Paddock and the player was Wayne Carey.

Sorry to prick your balloon mate but Pagan actually "borrowed" that one from John Kennedy who used the paddock idea with Peter Hudson in the 70's. All the Hawk players were ordered out of the forward line and Hudson would lead up and back track on his fullback. Funny stat, they both kicked 727 goals! Carey took 272 games whilst Huddo only took 129 games to do it. Don't think I ever saw Carey kick 150 goals in a season? Hudson was a freak.