List Mgmt. Blair Hartley Project 2015

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blaisee said:
So we should all just give up then?

What a pathetic excuse
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did I say that? of course we should try, but we shouldn't cry like emo crybabies when we lose out to strong competition
 
blaisee said:
You must work for the club because that's exactly their attitude and the reason why we aren't getting anywhere.
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hardly, I just think getting a player involves more than "we have a top song, and we is awesome!!!"

I find it baffling the people who criticize on one hand us not getting Greenwood, but then say the Pies overpaid for him

I find it baffling those who said they will burn their memberships if the club brings in any retreads, but then complain when the club pulls off no trades

I find it baffling those who think the original club has no say in the likely destination, despite history showing players normally want to work out a decent trade for their original club

I find it baffling that people congratulate Norf on recruiting Waite and Higgins, but criticize RFC for recruiting Knights with his injury history, and considering Trengove for the same reasons

But sure, following the GR/Miller approach of list management, by chasing every reactionary inquiry and overpaying for dubious potential is definitely the way to go
 
blaisee said:
Is this a rhetorical question?
I don't understand what the point is?
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A player whose loyalty is such that they're happy to switch clubs isn't going to consider the Richmond fans to be a major factor in deciding where to go.
 
telsor said:
A player whose loyalty is such that they're happy to switch clubs isn't going to consider the Richmond fans to be a major factor in deciding where to go.
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so you reckon there is no reason for a player to pick to go to hawthorn as opposed to Richmond,

Is that right?
 
blaisee said:
so you reckon there is no reason for a player to pick to go to hawthorn as opposed to Richmond,

Is that right?
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No plenty of reasons to go to Hawthorn...Good chance of a flag being the big one.
 
I'm with blaisee on this. We have to demand excellence. We have to demand results. Not just trying.

What's the point otherwise? Why can't we be the best?

Unique and state of the art facilities, third highest membership totals, no debt, passionate support, great history......

Why can't we be the best?

The club have a mindset we can't be.
 
Tigerbob said:
I'm with blaisee on this. We have to demand excellence. We have to demand results. Not just trying.

What's the point otherwise? Why can't we be the best?

Unique and state of the art facilities, third highest membership totals, no debt, passionate support, great history......

Why can't we be the best?

The club have a mindset we can't be.
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We won't ever be if the clubs ahead of us keep getting better and we don't. And going through trade week without improving our list is a big worry. It means that we can't attract ready made talent that can improve the list, or we can't identify that talent . Either way we are screwed.
 

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blaisee said:
We won't ever be if the clubs ahead of us keep getting better and we don't. And going through trade week without improving our list is a big worry. It means that we can't attract ready made talent that can improve the list, or we can't identify that talent . Either way we are screwed.
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I'm with you mate. All the way.

Being aggressive to get better should be the attitude.

Our attitude sucks.
 
You keep stating the need to improve our list but don't offer any suggestions on actually how to. Being aggressive gets you no where if you lack direction and in a league that has so many constraints it is impossible to become successful by simply being aggressive. Sure if you have an extra 1m in your salary you can manage to be successful, however we don't have such privileges. We simply need to bide our time and when the right deal comes up we strike which is what would of happened had Trengove not failed his medical. Comparing us to clubs around us who in order to improve via the trade period are relying heavily on players leaving to make cap space or players looking to move interstate is simply stupid. And believe it or not we are following a very similar path to Hawthorn who only really began trading players in and recruiting outside runners following their premiership success.
 
The way to get players is to dangle a big carrot in front of their faces. We were not willing to put our fattest, juiciest carrots in front of a player that has had 1 (ONE) good season in 7 years, inconsistent old farts that wouldn't even be able to chew the carrots with their gummy mouths, players that wanted mangoes up in QLD instead of carrots, or players that would have died out on the track with carrots in their mouths. This is because we know that the carrots that are feeding our best couple of players are about to be fully digested and need to be replaced with fresh new ones.

We started the season 3-10. This has been well documented. This has made the carrots look a bit old and mouldy and less attractive to potential recruits, even though all we had to do was wash the dirt off them. In 2015, the pool of talent is such that a golden carrot worthy of Bugs Bunny himself is worth dropping on a player. Of course, even the most engorged, 24 carat solid gold carrot will look like a fat conical turd if there is too much dirt on it.

This is why "being aggressive" is such a wishy washy thing to say. What we need is:
1) a good start to the season, and a good finish to the season in finals.
2) Marked improvement from our bottom 10 players. I mean 10-20% improvement, especially from younger guys.
3) A stable culture, where important players don't want to leave for more dosh because they believe in the club
4) and a vision that isn't overturned by one year of not pulling off any trades.

That's when your carrots start to look tasty.
 
IMO the move to get Cotchin Martin & Rance signed early is a good sign that we're at least going to position ourselves to have a real crack at some of the free agents/GWS kids coming on the market next year. We might not land them but I don't believe it will be through a lack of trying. I've said elsewhere what we've done this off season is us taking the next step in our progression. Look at the Geelong Hawthorn Sydney sides, they rarely if ever lose players that are important to their sides. They might let the odd fringe player slip to another side but outside Franklin going via Free Agency they rarely lose important pieces.

This year we have kept everyone that we wanted to keep. We've already looked into starting re-signing another 3 players early and we're investing in the draft for the first time in a while. At the same time those that we have kept around are for the most part on 1 year deals, there are 11 that come out of contract this time next year that could be moved on if they don't perform, while a couple could be retired off. Newman Grigg Knights & Foley if moved on could effectively free up around $1-1.2mil in cap space. Like I said we could be setting up ourselves for a dip in the free agency pool or the GWS pool, either way I'm willing to suggest that we will land a big name next year, especially if we achieve a 3rd straight finals appearance and win 1-2.
 
What about the article released by the club the morning after our capitulation against Norf stating we are cashed up and ready to tackle this years ( not next years ) free agency and land a big fish. That article was ridiculous on so many levels and the club should slap itself for sending that message to the fans and most of all the playing group. Quick fix bullshit on a global scale IMO .
How bout realising where we are at and building for a premiership and not to scrape into finals to appease the masses.
The article was just as funny as the Free agency thread on this board which started on page 1 talking about players like Mundy and ended on page 94 talking about Jason Winderlich a 29 year retread that has had 50 operations for his outside pace. You simply have to wonder why some of us get a bit disinchanted by the direction the club is taking . Players like that are not free if they cost us a spot for a kid on our list especially when we already have so much dead wood on our list .
 
rfctiger74 said:
these guys are professional footballers

do you seriously believe most guys are prepared to foresake $100-200k pa which choosing between a new club just because they like the song?

reality is we are in a market with 9 other teams, and don't have recent flag success as an attractor. As such, it comes down to coin and game time/opportunity

We are kidding ourselves that no other club will up bids for these players just because one nominates us, and that said player will ignore the incoming offers as they get bigger and bigger
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How did Melbourne attract Tyson last year?
Essendon with all their scandal still attract players
Carlton got guys going to them
These are all excuses , we just hunt the wrong types and pay overs for them
After Miles lucky pick at 136 last year it was obvious in who's backyard we had to look in
Nope we went for two high risk players who wouldn't IMO have improved our list
The trade period showed me that our recruiters are targeting battlers and they don't have the nous or competence on how to lure a big fish
 
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rfctiger74 said:
hardly, I just think getting a player involves more than "we have a top song, and we is awesome!!!"

I find it baffling the people who criticize on one hand us not getting Greenwood, but then say the Pies overpaid for him

I find it baffling those who said they will burn their memberships if the club brings in any retreads, but then complain when the club pulls off no trades

I find it baffling those who think the original club has no say in the likely destination, despite history showing players normally want to work out a decent trade for their original club

I find it baffling that people congratulate Norf on recruiting Waite and Higgins, but criticize RFC for recruiting Knights with his injury history, and considering Trengove for the same reasons

But sure, following the GR/Miller approach of list management, by chasing every reactionary inquiry and overpaying for dubious potential is definitely the way to go
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We over paid for Chaplin
We are over paying for Grigg Newman( shouldn't be on the list) Houli Morris Knights etc etc so as much as I didn't want Greenwood his $450k is relatively cheap in comparison
 
TigerImposter said:
How did Melbourne attract Tyson last year?
Essendon with all their scandal still attract players
Carlton got guys going to them
These are all excuses , we just hunt the wrong types and pay overs for them
After Miles lucky pick at 136 last year it was obvious in who's backyard we had to look in
Nope we went for two high risk players who wouldn't IMO have improved our list
The trade period showed me that our recruiters are targeting battlers and they don't have the nous or competence on how to lure a big fish
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Offered more money, and a better trade to gws
 
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