The A-League - how big can it get?

[polo9]

only 2 maybe 3 cities should join the a-league

Wollongong, Canberra and possibly North QLD (again)

other than that the FFA should be working at building a 2nd division in the hope that we can some how have a promotion/relegation system in the future

 

[ilikepotatoes]

only 2 maybe 3 cities should join the a-league

Wollongong, Canberra and possibly North QLD (again)

other than that the FFA should be working at building a 2nd division in the hope that we can some how have a promotion/relegation system in the future

I can't ever see a promotion/relegation system working in Australia. There isn't the money or the supporters for it.

 

[wally funk]

Yeah, it's just not a big enough sport here. It'd be a miracle if any promoted teams lasted more than one season in the top flight.

 

[giggler99]

Yeah, it's just not a big enough sport here. It'd be a miracle if any promoted teams lasted more than one season in the top flight.

I'll be more concerned about the teams being relegated to survive rather then promoted.

 

[PerthNameChange]

I think the idea of a Singapore game is a big mistake

 

[wally funk]

Yes, Singapore is just another expense; look at the NBL five-ish years ago. The Singapore Slingers lasted two or three seasons. Don't bother.

 

[treegreen]

Yes, Singapore is just another expense; look at the NBL five-ish years ago. The Singapore Slingers lasted two or three seasons. Don't bother.

Just adding on to that, the best supported S-league clubs can't get 2000 people to the matches. We'd be better off with adding a semi-pro local club.

 

[Cody_]

Canberra, Hobart, Geelong and Darwin would be ideal options imo

 

[Dan Cooper]

Last night at Docklands was just a small sample of where the A League is heading. Big stadium. Capacity crowd, and with the seats wound in, fantastic atmosphere as well. Look out other sports, soccer is coming!

 

[Bardo State]

What sort of crowds could they realistically pull in Geelong? My biggest concern would be the long-term viability of a club down there, it'd have the smallest population base of any club in the A-league. Also my understanding was that most diehard fans already support one of Victory or City, is there really scope for another Victorian team (at least in the short term)?

I think there might be as long ad the club has an actual geographical identity and we don't get another generic Melbourne United type deal.

 

[BORK]

Last night at Docklands was just a small sample of where the A League is heading. Big stadium. Capacity crowd, and with the seats wound in, fantastic atmosphere as well. Look out other sports, soccer is coming!

Which sports?

 

[Dan Cooper]

Which sports?

All the ones we are growing at a faster rate than.

 

[kreglze]

You could do worse than a Tassie team. Might be worth that trial run.

 

[SM]

Anyone seen this article?

http://www.theroar.com.au/2014/10/29/lowy-flags-multi-tier-expanded-league/

Most interesting is Lowy saying that promotion/relegation is all but inevitable.

 

[wally funk]

Very interesting indeed. I don't think there's any reason to have more than twelve teams for the next decade or two, and promotion/relegation is just a waste of time. Assuming teams will come to and from the existing state leagues, they'll have one/two seasons max in the top flight and barely have enough time to attract new fans/sponsorship dollars before being sent back down and likely replaced by the former A-League side that had been relegated. The gulf between the A-League and the state leagues would be huge, surely? And splitting the existing A-League into two divisions of five or six teams each is just silly.

 

[tandino]

I think relegation of any one of maybe four A-League clubs will lead to their demise, which is of course undesirable.

Maybe it might work if A-League license holders retain their funding in perpetuity and "B-League" license holders are only funded during their time in the top flight + x years. Might stop clubs going to the wall.

 

[tandino]

Or if you have, say, two wildcard spots. If one finish bottom they drop out and their place is taken by a promoted club. If they both escape relegation, bad luck for the clubs seeking promotion that year.

 

[polo9]

Very interesting indeed. I don't think there's any reason to have more than twelve teams for the next decade or two, and promotion/relegation is just a waste of time. Assuming teams will come to and from the existing state leagues, they'll have one/two seasons max in the top flight and barely have enough time to attract new fans/sponsorship dollars before being sent back down and likely replaced by the former A-League side that had been relegated. The gulf between the A-League and the state leagues would be huge, surely? And splitting the existing A-League into two divisions of five or six teams each is just silly.

how is promotion and relegation a waste of time? do you understand why it is used in every single country except here and usa? not having it keeps mediocre teams in the top league, when teams doing well should be rewarded. how can you say they will have 1 or 2 seasons max? what are you basing that off? yes there is definitely a difference in quality between a-league and state leagues but look at the difference, a-league players are FULL TIME, every day they are either training, playing a game or recovering. state league teams train 3-4 times a week, play on the weekend inbetween working or studying FULL TIME. of course there is gonna be a difference in quality, but the important thing here is to bridge that gap and this is the only way to do it.

people have been talking about the FFA Cup and what it does for clubs and players from state leagues in terms of exposure, so why is a 2nd national league that is a pathway to the a-league so different? in fact it is a far better way. we have 10 teams in this league, 1 being from NZ so that leaves not even 200 professional players who are Australian in this league. how can this country do well on the national stage when there is so little opportunity for young players to play professionally?

new fans, yes that could be an issue but clubs can certainly pull decent crowd numbers. Knights, South, Adl City, Syd Utd etc could all potentially draw bigger crowds than some of the a-league clubs. as for sponsorship, how do you think clubs survive these days in the state league? sponsorship and fundraisers, with the added exposure for the 2nd division and if the team gets promoted, i'm sure these will rise. plus the tv deal will be bigger than the current one due to more games (the current tv deal covers wages for clubs atm).

who said splitting the league into 2 divisions of 5 or 6 teams you donut. it would be 12-16 in the first division and the second division would have 12-20

 

[SM]

My biggest concern would be the funding for travel for a team in the 'B-League' from Perth playing against a team in NZ.

 

[NUFC Tiger]

A 14 team competition would be great to see one day (provided it's viable and the clubs can stand on their own). No point expanding the number of teams if the new sides need to be propped up by the FFA (as it ultimately drains money from other areas such as the national side, youth sides and national development and infrastructure).

I'd love to see a second division introduced one day - perhaps they could get a few of the biggest state league clubs (assuming they are interested in joining a national competition) as the likes of South Melbourne, Wollongong, Fury, Auckland City have established fan bases/expressed interest in becoming A League clubs.

I think the big thing that needs to be considered is the viability of teams if promotion/relegation is introduced. I'd assume if it does happen, we'd see 'parachute' payments similar to the EPL so teams dropping down to the less lucrative second tier have some financial support to ensure they don't go bust.

The FFA would be really hoping to get a bumper TV deal when the next deal is negotiated. The more money they can squeeze will ultimately help bridge the gap between the bigger A League teams and say a newly promoted team that suddenly needs to have a full time playing roster, full time wages, more support staff, travel/training costs etc.

 

[Mr_Bojangles]

Lowy will be in the ground before we ever see promotion and relegation. teams would shed too much money surely. If they had a 20 team 2 league set up with all teams proving they have the crowds, infrastructure and money to survive playing in the second division then go for it so a Souths or a Sydney United, Wollongong whoever could join up. Someone like the WA champs Bayswater City over here playing in the A-League? Forget about it. They weren't even allowed to play at their own ground for the cup because it wasn't up to scratch.

 

[Old_Man_James]

How do the majority of teams get to each match within their country in Europe? With England being the rough size and shape of Victoria only tilted, you can see how FA cup fixtures and relegation and promotion is viable from a travel perspective, worst case for poorer teams is hiring a 20 seater bus, and what approx 550km road trip, which whilst not ideal is still doable. Id imagine similar in Italy, France, Germany, whilst larger countries, still a fairly high percentage of games you could easily get to by train or coach on a budget. In Australia, with the exception of the Sydney area teams from ACT, Newcastle to Wollongong, there is no alternative to flying the squad and the costs associated with that.

 

[NUFC Tiger]

How do the majority of teams get to each match within their country in Europe? With England being the rough size and shape of Victoria only tilted, you can see how FA cup fixtures and relegation and promotion is viable from a travel perspective, worst case for poorer teams is hiring a 20 seater bus, and what approx 550km road trip, which whilst not ideal is still doable. Id imagine similar in Italy, France, Germany, whilst larger countries, still a fairly high percentage of games you could easily get to by train or coach on a budget. In Australia, with the exception of the Sydney area teams from ACT, Newcastle to Wollongong, there is no alternative to flying the squad and the costs associated with that.

I could be wrong but I think (generally) it's relatively cheap to travel from one European country to another. From what some people at work have told me, travelling within Australia is (comparatively) more expensive.

For most clubs, I think the TV money, commercial revenue, matchday intake and competition money for participating in that league all would go to help running the club on a day to day basis (so any travel costs would be factored into that). The FFA may need to subsidise travel for second tier teams (similar to what they do in the FFA Cup).

 

[SM]

Lowy will be in the ground before we ever see promotion and relegation. teams would shed too much money surely. If they had a 20 team 2 league set up with all teams proving they have the crowds, infrastructure and money to survive playing in the second division then go for it so a Souths or a Sydney United, Wollongong whoever could join up. Someone like the WA champs Bayswater City over here playing in the A-League? Forget about it. They weren't even allowed to play at their own ground for the cup because it wasn't up to scratch.

This is the way to go. If they had something like promotion/relegation from the state leagues to a 'B-League' and started televising the odd game from that league, with promotion relegation of the champions of that league and the bottom placed A-League team, then that could become viable:

A) Travel costs reduced by having 'regional' conferences (state leagues)
B) 'B-League' TV money to help fund and support travel costs for those teams
C) Some amount from A-League revenue also going to the B-League.

They would have to bring it in at the start of a TV Rights deal, and really bank on promotion/relegation bringing a lot more interest, which I fully believe it would. Towards the end of the A-League season, bottom placed teams have SFA to do but twiddle their thumbs because they know they can't make finals. If they were fighting for their existence in the A-League you would get far more thrilling matches and higher crowds as fans go along to support their team through the relegation fight. Look at the EPL in the final few weeks for which games suddenly gain more interest.

Your point about Bayswater is exactly why I think promotion/relegation is vital. Clubs would gain greater revenue as a reward for their success, and they could then use (or be forced to use) some of that on building up their grounds, creating a far greater range of quality football grounds around Australia. I'd even argue the Fed. Government could provide sponsorship for the B-League to encourage the infrastructure development.

 

[Mr_Bojangles]

They're on the right path with the NPL. It's just a lot of these clubs, especially in WA, have hardly any fans. Even Perth Italia and the like wouldn't get more than a few thousand. The fans won't come flocking. It would take a lot to build up and many games would look like they're being played in a backyard if given the Fox treatment. These clubs would take a long time to not make their club look amateur. The FFA Cup is different. We know it's grassroots and it's almost to the point of patronizing covering the games at small grounds like Bentleigh etc. "Oh look at their quaint little club." Not sure if that would be the same if it was a league situation every week.