Gough Whitlam: Messiah or Very Naughty Boy?

[Ice-Wolf]

Trying to move some of the Whitlam discussion away from the Tribute thread to somewhere more appropriate.

So what were Whitlam's policy successes and failures? Did he leave the nation a better place than it was before him? Did he set us on the right path or on the path to ruin? Is his legacy one that should endure or be dismantled?

FYI the alternative question choice was "Great Prime Minister or Greatest Prime Minister?"

 

[Admiral Byng]

Depends on your current politics.

Long list of things he did in a short time.... no fault divorce, the pill available on the PBS, free higher education, free healthcare, the Trade Practices Act and consumer protection, the first anti-discrimination laws, land rights, generous wages and conditions for public servants... amongst other things.

For some people he was the start of a modern and compassionate Australia, a man who stood up for his principles and an inspiration to follow. For other he was the start of the rot and they've been trying to repeal and wind it back ever since. But many of the reforms he introduced are still with us today.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

The most socially important politician this country has ever seen.

End of story.

 

[Gus Poyet]

Loved spending other peoples money. Godfather of the modern handout society. Pin up for the the free loading socialists.

 

[tandino]

It's not for me to judge a Prime Minister I know comparatively little about.

From what I've read and from what history I know, his achievements are many and his failings are small but significant.

I have misgivings about a few particular, specific things based primarily on the experiences of my long since deceased grandfather and his "area of interest", primarily about what happened in East Timor and South Vietnam in 1975, and some aspects of PNG independence.

 

[RUNVS]

The most socially important politician this country has ever seen.

End of story.

A perfect way to describe him. Without Whitlam Australia would be a very different nation today and you can't actually say that about many Prime Ministers.

If it wasn't for Whitlam we might be with the USA as the only developed countries in the world without universal healthcare or we might have an education system that is only available to the wealthy.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Loved spending other peoples money. Godfather of the modern handout society. Pin up for the the free loading socialists.

Give me a freeloading socialist over a greedy, heartless prick any day of the week.

 

[louismaxwell]

There was always a query about whether gough whitlam was gay, can anyone confirm his orientation and whether he was our first prime minister so way inclined?

 

[Forward Press]

The most socially important politician this country has ever seen.

End of story.

I cannot recall a politician who had as much of a social impact on Australia.

- Medicare
- White Australia Policy/multiculturalism
- Anti-discrimination
- Social welfare
- Divorce
- Indigenous land rights

And many many others. As Malcolm Fraser said today, perhaps his one fault was that he tried to do too much too fast.

He made mistakes. He made a whole series of massive mistakes that led to the dismissal. But I think we're better off because of Gough Whitlam and if you take away what he did, modern Australia today would be completely unrecognisable

 

[RUNVS]

There was always a query about whether gough whitlam was gay, can anyone confirm his orientation and whether he was our first prime minister so way inclined?

He was married for something like 60 years and has a number of children so while that does not mean he was not gay it does make it somewhat unlikely.

 

[Gus Poyet]

Give me a freeloading socialist over a greedy, heartless prick any day of the week.

Yes, because someone who is freeloading is more beneficial to society than someone who works hard for what they have.

At least you've nailed your colours to the mast. Supporter of bludgers, parasites and leeches.

 

[RUNVS]

Yes, because someone who is freeloading is more beneficial to society than someone who works hard for what they have.

At least you've nailed your colours to the mast. Supporter of bludgers, parasites and leeches.

Except under your ideal system it is not who works the hardest gets the most money, it is what family are you born into as the poor people never have a chance to show what they can accomplish and never have a chance of moving out of the working class.

 

[louismaxwell]

He was married for something like 60 years and has a number of children so while that does not mean he was not gay it does make it somewhat unlikely.

Only reason i asked he did give that vibe, as he was very theatrical in his manner.

 

[The Speaker]

Barnett's comments were more or less spot on.

There is more to being a 'great' PM than what policies occur during your time, but that doesn't mean he wasn't significant as a reformer who genuinely changed the nation.

 

[RUNVS]

Only reason i asked he did give that vibe, as he was very theatrical in his manner.

I wish we had more politicians like that. Not that I have heard a lot of speeches from Whitlam but he sounds like he was a very good public speaker.

 

[Gus Poyet]

Except under your ideal system it is not who works the hardest gets the most money, it is what family are you born into as the poor people never have a chance to show what they can accomplish and never have a chance of moving out of the working class.

My ideal system is nobody gets taxed highly and people get to decide what their money is spent on. Not have Governments take it from them in great amounts and then waste it in countless bullshit ways.

Work hard and anyone can do well in life in that system.

People like Whitlam are only too happy to tax the s**t out of us and then decide for us how best to spend OUR money, not theirs, other peoples money.

It was very easy for him to spend other peoples money when it wasn't his.

Then we had to keep being over taxed to help contribute to his ridiculous pension.

 

[RUNVS]

My ideal system is nobody gets taxed highly and people get to decide what their money is spent on. Not have Governments take it from them in great amounts and then waste it in countless bullshit ways.

Work hard and anyone can do well in life.

People like Whitlam are only too happy to tax the s**t out of us and then decide for us how best to spend OUR money, not theirs, other peoples money.

It was very easy for him to spend other peoples money when it wasn't his.

Then we had to keep being over taxed to help contribute to his ridiculous pension.

You should do some research on how education helps a person succeed in life and how people who are poor and do not get the education that a kid from a rich family would get has a massive disadvantage even if he is very smart. Also getting the best and brightest to succeed is definitely in the nationals interest but if the best and brightest are born in a poor family then under your system where education is not free and presumably the best teachers go to the richest schools then Australia is really going so suffer as it will mean too many kids will never reach their potential.

 

[imadodgyumpire]

Loved spending other peoples money. Godfather of the modern handout society. Pin up for the the free loading socialists.

Who is "other people"?

 

[Gus Poyet]

You should do some research on how education helps a person succeed in life and how people who are poor and do not get the education that a kid from a rich family would get has a massive disadvantage even if he is very smart. Also getting the best and brightest to succeed is definitely in the nationals interest but if the best and brightest are born in a poor family then under your system where education is not free and presumably the best teachers go to the richest schools then Australia is really going so suffer as it will mean too many kids will never reach their potential.

So if some idiots decide to breed its then societies duty to pick up the bill.

Sorry, I'm sick of that crap. If people decide to have kids let them pay for them, not other people. Supporting that kind of system is nothing more than being enablers to a bunch of parasites.

 

[Lebbo73]

Yes, because someone who is freeloading is more beneficial to society than someone who works hard for what they have.

At least you've nailed your colours to the mast. Supporter of bludgers, parasites and leeches.

You need to be careful Gus. Genuine hard cases do need a safety net to support them. The hidden key is to weed out the bludgers, parasites and leeches. Something that is easier said than done.

 

[Gus Poyet]

Who is "other people"?

Tax payers...

You don't think politicians use their own money for their stupid wasting of funds do you?

 

[Admiral Byng]

See... I told you so!

 

[Gus Poyet]

You need to be careful Gus. Genuine hard cases do need a safety net to support them. The hidden key is to weed out the bludgers, parasites and leeches. Something that is easier said than done.

If you are genuinely poor don't have kids until you can afford them. Not that hard to be responsible is it?

 

[Ripper]

I was talking to Mrs Ripper on the way home from the big smoke today. She reckoned her dad was a staunch Labor man , mixed in the right circles and donated to the party , but even He changed sides at the end of Gough's reign. We were trying to work out what could have done that, and came to the conclusion that it was Rex Connors plan to nationalise the mines.

Her Dad was a Drilling contractor. As for myself I was moved by his "It's time" speech before the 1972 election although I was too young to vote.

It is actually one of two speeches that have moved me , the other was Noel Pearson's 2001 Charles Perkins memorial oration.

I actually voted for him in 1975., but I was a stupid youth then.

He was a great Orator, I think Abbott got it spot on when He said He was hard to disagree with and even harder to dislike.

Gough Himself was a good man IMHO but He was to beholden to the other fruit loops in the party , like Jim Cairns , Rex O'Connor and the Agriculture minister whose name escapes me at the moment , but who certainly upset the bush.

Bill Hayden's first and last Budget as treasurer was a good one, which started to control some of the excesses .

 

[Jiska]

Tax payers...

You don't think politicians use their own money for their stupid wasting of funds do you?

As a taxpayer, I have no problem contributing money to allow those less fortunate than me access to free healthcare, education and legal aid. I also am very thankful he connected Australian homes to sewage.

I do, however, have a massive problem spending billions of dollars invading foreign countries we have no right to be in.

State aid to private schools I don't really agree with. Under your philosophy, those able to send their kids to private school should pay the lot rather than getting Government handouts. On that point, we'll most likely agree.

You forget the things Gough did that weren't big spending items and economically cost very little; equal pay for women, abolishing the White Australia Policy, established diplomatic relations with China; one of our biggest trading partners modern day, drafted the Land Rights Act, granted PNG independence, abolished conscription and ended criminal executions.