Society/Culture Gay marriage approved in the UK

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MrCharisma

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Just one question i will put to you, do you consider it completely acceptable and how much more should we give leeway and let it all hang out , if you had a child that watched it on tv or was on the street, a passing parade of seriously strange people wandering down the street in bizarre leather getup leaving little to the imagination, or others in g strings doing dancing moves that are totally sexually confronting, and god knows what else, surely it should remain behind closed doors. Is not too much to ask to at least tone it done a bit.

And my answer will be very similar to my last one because you're essentially making the argument.
  • Your argument is basically "I'm offended". It means nothing.
  • Mainstream and corporate backing is conclusive evidence that your views are at conflict with mainstream society.
  • You claim there is harm but have not proven it.
I don't think i am being the intolerant one, its gone all the other way and they are intolerant of us.

I'll assume here that when you say "us" you mean "me". Just because you're offended by it doesn't mean they're being intolerant of you. They probably don't even know who you are. Your opinion offends me, does that mean you're being intolerant of me?
 
If there is a social tradition that means a certain thing for many people over a long period of time, so that this social tradition holds deep value for those people, then that social tradition is changed to include something has never been part of the tradition the value of the social tradition is diminished. And the people who value that tradition are 'harmed'.

Liberal states always have to strike a balance between the rights of individuals and the needs of the broader community. It is appropriate that the state is empowered to prohibit marriages that do not conform to community values.
Seems you need to have your clitoris excised so as not to offend my long held social beliefs...me' laddy.

Or stop posting wildly illogical arguments.
 

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skilts

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If there is a social tradition that means a certain thing for many people over a long period of time, so that this social tradition holds deep value for those people, then that social tradition is changed to include something has never been part of the tradition the value of the social tradition is diminished. And the people who value that tradition are 'harmed'.

Liberal states always have to strike a balance between the rights of individuals and the needs of the broader community. It is appropriate that the state is empowered to prohibit marriages that do not conform to community values.
Do not those who embrace those traditions have the option of altering their views, or questioning, on an ongoing basis, those values' intrinsic value? Are you saying that the minority 'community' to which you refer should be ceaselessly deferred to, despite the fact that they seem incapable of engaging with changing circumstances. Why should the conduct of 'society' be controlled by those too lazy to think? Regardless of other changes, the effluxion of time alone makes the setting of Being in aspic a fraught and unrealistic project.
 
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medusala

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And my answer will be very similar to my last one because you're essentially making the argument.
  • Your argument is basically "I'm offended". It means nothing.

Wow. 18c Redux!!!

Finally someone on here who sees the stupidity of that legislation

:thumbsu::thumbsu::thumbsu::thumbsu:
 

MrCharisma

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Wow. 18c Redux!!!

Finally someone on here who sees the stupidity of that legislation

:thumbsu::thumbsu::thumbsu::thumbsu:

No, I didn't mention 18c at all.:thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown:

But the crux of my point is practically the same reason why Louis' argument would be rejected by 18c:

In Eatock v Bolt [2011], Justice Mordecai Bromberg said: "Whether conduct is reasonably likely to offend, insult, humiliate or intimidate a group of people calls for an objective assessment of the likely reaction of those people. I have concluded that the assessment is to be made by reference to an ordinary and reasonable member of the group of people concerned and the values and circumstances of those people."

Now, for about about the third time, louis' opinion on Mardi Gras is a subjective assessment of what he finds offensive. It is not an objective assessment which proves that his offence is likely to be shared by an entire group. An objective assessment shows that his opinion is not shared by others (Mardi Gras is mainstream). An ordinary and reasonable member of the (straight) community is not offended by Mardi Gras. Therefore, louis' opinion that Mardi Gras is offensive means nothing.

Nice try doe right wingers.
 

medusala

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No, I didn't mention 18c at all.:thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown:

But the crux of my point is practically the same reason why Louis' argument would be rejected by 18c:

In Eatock v Bolt [2011], Justice Mordecai Bromberg said: "Whether conduct is reasonably likely to offend, insult, humiliate or intimidate a group of people calls for an objective assessment of the likely reaction of those people. I have concluded that the assessment is to be made by reference to an ordinary and reasonable member of the group of people concerned and the values and circumstances of those people."

Which is utterly woeful by Mordy. ie some groups get offended more easily than others. Arbitrary muppetry.

"reference to an ordinary and reasonable member of the group of people concerned"

Fantastic. Lets ask a nutcase member of Hillsong / Hari Krishna, Orange People, Waco inhabitants or the like what they think. Absolutely staggering that people can defend such stupidity let alone the ruling by a failed ALP candidate.
 

Lester Burnham

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But the crux of my point is practically the same reason why Louis' argument would be rejected by 18c:

In Eatock v Bolt [2011], Justice Mordecai Bromberg said: "Whether conduct is reasonably likely to offend, insult, humiliate or intimidate a group of people calls for an objective assessment of the likely reaction of those people. I have concluded that the assessment is to be made by reference to an ordinary and reasonable member of the group of people concerned and the values and circumstances of those people."

Now, for about about the third time, louis' opinion on Mardi Gras is a subjective assessment of what he finds offensive. It is not an objective assessment which proves that his offence is likely to be shared by an entire group. An objective assessment shows that his opinion is not shared by others (Mardi Gras is mainstream). An ordinary and reasonable member of the (straight) community is not offended by Mardi Gras. Therefore, louis' opinion that Mardi Gras is offensive means nothing.

Surely your argument relies on people's self identification with a group and not your interpretation of what group they identifiy with? So if louismaxwell belonged to group, let's call them Catholics, who were offended by some aspects of the gay mardis gras then a judge should conclude that the conduct was reasonably likely to offend, insult, humiliate or intimidate a group of people based on an assessment by reference to an ordinary and reasonable member of the group of people concerned and the values and circumstances of those people.

FWIW, I'm not Catholic and I'm not offended by the gay mardis gras. Just highlighting the the flaws of 18c.
 

louismaxwell

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With the passing of Gough Whitlam i wonder will this be an impetus to pass the gay marriage act as a tribute to the former PM, as their was conjecture that Gough may have been Australia's first gay head of state. It would be a fitting show of respect to Gough as another ground breaking piece of reform to be remembered by inclusive of all the other reforms that he led the way on in the past.
 

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skilts

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With the passing of Gough Whitlam i wonder will this be an impetus to pass the gay marriage act as a tribute to the former PM, as their was conjecture that Gough may have been Australia's first gay head of state. It would be a fitting show of respect to Gough as another ground breaking piece of reform to be remembered by inclusive of all the other reforms that he led the way on in the past.
Gough was never Australia's head of state. Had he been so, it seems unlikely he would have sacked himself.
 

Riseupaustralia

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With the passing of Gough Whitlam i wonder will this be an impetus to pass the gay marriage act as a tribute to the former PM, as their was conjecture that Gough may have been Australia's first gay head of state. It would be a fitting show of respect to Gough as another ground breaking piece of reform to be remembered by inclusive of all the other reforms that he led the way on in the past.


I fear that you are simple-minded enough to get esteemed Big Footy poster Gough , mixed up with our former Prime Minister. A position, by the way, which is NOT our head of state.

One of the above is quite openly gay, and he's not a politician.

Now, let me tell you about Billy Snedden and dying on the job...
 

skilts

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Just one question i will put to you, do you consider it completely acceptable and how much more should we give leeway and let it all hang out , if you had a child that watched it on tv or was on the street, a passing parade of seriously strange people wandering down the street in bizarre leather getup leaving little to the imagination, or others in g strings doing dancing moves that are totally sexually confronting, and god knows what else, surely it should remain behind closed doors. Is not too much to ask to at least tone it done a bit. I don't think i am being the intolerant one, its gone all the other way and they are intolerant of us.

This is the essence of your argument. In what way are you in a position to decide what should and shouldn't remain behind closed doors?
 

louismaxwell

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You've been paddling this one man rumour dinghy to the point where even you may be getting fatigued.I can get it if you wish he had been but best move on to another of your sparkling idiosyncratic notions.:cool:
http://gaynewsnetwork.com.au/news/national/vale-gough-whitlam-15443.html
i am not trying to paddle any rumor, Gough did come across as flamboyant in his manner so people guessed at this. What i was trying to impart it would be a good thing for the gay community to have such an icon as their own and it would break down barriers in the community and maybe the momentum to pass gay marriage in the parliament. Is that such a bad thing.
 

louismaxwell

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This is the essence of your argument. In what way are you in a position to decide what should and shouldn't remain behind closed doors?
Its none of my business but as you know people now days do get offended and their are laws now to protect these people from being offended in anyway as thats the type of society we have become. I would hate to see lawsuits brought that you have offended my sensibilities and morals . I'm thinking their is enough fractures with our muslim brethren let alone offending them more with behaviour they abhor and alienating them further.
 
Its none of my business but as you know people now days do get offended and their are laws now to protect these people from being offended in anyway as thats the type of society we have become. I would hate to see lawsuits brought that you have offended my sensibilities and morals . I'm thinking their is enough fractures with our muslim brethren let alone offending them more with behaviour they abhor and alienating them further.

I have to admit, I find it difficult to take your comments seriously when you can't differentiate between their, there and they're.
 

mottrain

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I have to admit, I find it difficult to take your comments seriously when you can't differentiate between their, there and they're.
If that's all you got then you should be happy. It is better than someone who can't differentiate between equality in relation to domestic violence.
 

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