No Oppo Supporters CAS hands down guilty verdict - Players appealing - Dank shot - no opposition - (cont in pt.2)

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Their 'case' is already unravelling at the seams.. but I would think if he doesn't turn up.. it is further stuffed.. but equally if he turns up and says "I don't know what was in the vials and I don't know where they went" it is also stuffed.

Remembering that ASADA has to demonstrate to 'comfortable satisfaction' that each player was doped.. a witness who 'doesn't know' is hardly compelling.

"I can't recall"

 

[rines]

True

Sounds like their whole case is based on hunches and guesses i hope the lawyers blow their flimsy case apart.

Oh no.. its compelling.. and comprehensive..
It comprehensively shows that Dank texted Charter multiple times about compounds used to aid recovery. It tells a compelling tale of how one such text mentions the dosage recommended for TB4 however doesn't mention a players name or playing group that would be using it. It comprehensively shows Charter ordering a small amount of TB4 from a supplier in China. It is able to compellingly suggest that small order of TB4 may have arrived at Alavi's chemist. It then comprehensively explains how Alavi never tested the substance and believes Dank picked it up for testing. It also comprehensively demonstrates that no one has any clue what Dank did with the vials. It is compelling evidence that shows Dank was employed by Essendon Football Club at the time he took possession of the vials that might have been TB4.

So we shouldn't criticise them.. that is a lot of comprehensive and compelling evidence. Doesn't help a doping case.. but it is rock solid stuff!

 

[Harlequin]

"I can't recall"

More like Cruella DaVille

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Oh no.. its compelling.. and comprehensive..
It comprehensively shows that Dank texted Charter multiple times about compounds used to aid recovery. It tells a compelling tale of how one such text mentions the dosage recommended for TB4 however doesn't mention a players name or playing group that would be using it. It comprehensively shows Charter ordering a small amount of TB4 from a supplier in China. It is able to compellingly suggest that small order of TB4 may have arrived at Alavi's chemist. It then comprehensively explains how Alavi never tested the substance and believes Dank picked it up for testing. It also comprehensively demonstrates that no one has any clue what Dank did with the vials. It is compelling evidence that shows Dank was employed by Essendon Football Club at the time he took possession of the vials that might have been TB4.

So we shouldn't criticise them.. that is a lot of comprehensive and compelling evidence. Doesn't help a doping case.. but it is rock solid stuff!

Haha compelling my arse.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

More like Cruella DaVille
View attachment 88580

With the 101 Dalmations being EFC players.

 

[letstayunited]

If they are found guilty then my guess would be 6 month bans, backdated to the date of the last game. So in effect 2 rounds of the 2015 season.

The bigger issue would be loss of reputation, suing the club and all that goes with it.

I also think the players would appeal immediately to CAS.

The biggest issue might be that we would possibly lose our coach

 

[pepsi]

The biggest issue might be that we would possibly lose our coach

How is that the biggest issue? I think any player being suspended, be it for 1 game or more, is clearly the biggest issue. Always has been.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

How is that the biggest issue? I think any player being suspended, be it for 1 game or more, is clearly the biggest issue. Always has been.

Yep

Hird can be easily replaced my main concern is the possibility of players suing EFC (don't think it will happen) but who knows

 

[cymarak]

At the end of the day, ASADA are duty-bound to investigate. Even if they think their case is unlikely to result in 'guilty' verdicts at a tribunal, if there 'may' have been a doping violation then they have to investigate.

So I have no problem with the issuing of SCNs and the referring of the cases to the ADRVP. And if infraction notices are issued by the AFL that is at least what theoretically should be done. Even if everyone at ASADA expects to lose at the tribunal, they're still duty-bound to pursue the cases.

The problems I do have with ASADA are:

1. The snail's pace of the investigation (is that insulting to snails ?)
2. Too much media grandstanding - ASADA should be giving general updates on process, and that should be it (no media interviews, no public commentary on strength of cases, etc.)
3. They jumped into bed with the AFL, who can't be trusted to maintain confidentiality or to use information provided by ASADA for legitimate purposes
4. They jumped into bed with the AFL to gain powers that the government decided were not appropriate for them to have (exemplifies a 'the end justifies the means' mindset)

Like any organisation, ASADA develop an unholy single-minded focus on what 'they do', to the point where they lose perspective and believe that it is the most important thing in the universe.

tl,dr: investigate by all means, but do it properly and professionally.

 

[rumply]

I also think the players would appeal immediately to CAS.

Hasnt it been established only ASADA/WADA can appeal to CAS & players last chance at appeal is AAT? I am sure I was reading this somewhere last week.

 

[cymarak]

Hasnt it been established only ASADA/WADA can appeal to CAS? I am sure I was reading this somewhere last week.

I'm not 100% sure.

The relevant section of the anti-doping code seems to be 17.2 (e) - this suggests to me that players (and others) have a right to appeal to the AFL Appeals Board, but don't have a right to appeal to CAS (at least, not an explicit right in the anti-doping code - perhaps they have that right provided elsewhere ?):

Persons Entitled to Appeal
The parties having the right to appeal to the Appeals Board shall be as provided in the NAD Scheme but, at a minimum, shall include the following parties:
(i) the Player or other Person who is the subject of the decision being appealed;
(ii) the other party to the case in which the decision was rendered;
(iii) AFL;
(iv) ASADA; and
(v) WADA.
ASADA and WADA shall also have the right to appeal to CAS with respect to the decision of the Appeals Board. Any party filing an appeal shall be entitled to assistance from CAS to obtain all relevant information from the Anti-Doping Organisation whose decision is being appealed and the information shall be provided if CAS so directs.

(my bold)

 

[rumply]

I'm not 100% sure.

The relevant section of the anti-doping code seems to be 17.2 (e) - this suggests to me that players (and others) have a right to appeal to the AFL Appeals Board, but don't have a right to appeal to CAS (at least, not an explicit right in the anti-doping code - perhaps they have that right provided elsewhere ?):

(my bold)

Yeah, think thats right, I edited my post above, believe the AAT is the players last point of appeal & it's only when ASADA/WADA are unhappy with the outcome that appeals to CAS are made.

 

[cymarak]

The anti-doping code also says (17.2 (c)):

The determination of the Appeals Board will be final and binding on the parties to the appeal and no Person may institute or maintain proceedings in any court or tribunal.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Yeah, think thats right, I edited my post above, believe the AAT is the players last point of appeal & it's only when ASADA/WADA are unhappy with the outcome that appeals to CAS are made.

nah players have right of appeal to tribunal appeals board. But pretty sure they also have right to appeal to CAS after that too. The difference is ASADA / WADA can short-circuit everything and bounce it to CAS at any time, as our mate would say

 

[bomberz20_72]

How can Asada use Nima Alavi as a witness when he bloody doesn't know? you make me laugh Salada.

Maybe he can't recall?

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Maybe he can't recall?

Maybe the players should as well worked for her.

 

[MightyDon]

Unless Charters or Alavi were in the room witnessing players being injected with TB4, i'm still not sure how ASADA can put that beyond reasonable doubt that any one single player received an injection of TB4. Even if they're trying their hardest to put it at the club.

 

[rumply]

nah players have right of appeal to tribunal appeals board. But pretty sure they also have right to appeal to CAS after that too. The difference is ASADA / WADA can short-circuit everything and bounce it to CAS at any time, as our mate would say

Seems to be alot of confusion surrounding this issue, found what I read last week

Chris Kaias ‏@ChrisKaias Oct 18
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/essendon-players-have-10-days-to-respond-to-showcause-notices-20141017-117vs1.html… Only WADA/ASADA have rights to appeal to CAS according to Code, not players @Pierik_AgeSport



Richard Ings ‏@ringsau Sep 26
@DrBenKoh Only WADA/ASADA have CAS appeal rights under the normal AFL processes. AFL players are not considered "international" athletes

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Seems to be alot of confusion surrounding this issue, found what I read last week

Chris Kaias ‏@ChrisKaias Oct 18
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/essendon-players-have-10-days-to-respond-to-showcause-notices-20141017-117vs1.html… Only WADA/ASADA have rights to appeal to CAS according to Code, not players @Pierik_AgeSport



Richard Ings ‏@ringsau Sep 26
@DrBenKoh Only WADA/ASADA have CAS appeal rights under the normal AFL processes. AFL players are not considered "international" athletes

Hence why their code doesn't suit our game.

 

[BomberManU]

As sort of a side issue, would I be correct in assuming Caroline Wilson doesn't have a (real) twitter account?

She has a sock-puppet account under the name 'Rita Panahi'

 

[cymarak]

Seems to be alot of confusion surrounding this issue, found what I read last week

Chris Kaias ‏@ChrisKaias Oct 18
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/essendon-players-have-10-days-to-respond-to-showcause-notices-20141017-117vs1.html… Only WADA/ASADA have rights to appeal to CAS according to Code, not players @Pierik_AgeSport



Richard Ings ‏@ringsau Sep 26
@DrBenKoh Only WADA/ASADA have CAS appeal rights under the normal AFL processes. AFL players are not considered "international" athletes

As far as I can tell, there's nothing in the AFL's anti-doping code that gives the players the right to appeal to CAS, so if the players have that right, it must come from somewhere else (e.g. ASADA legislation ?).

 

[Lance Uppercut]

guys players do have the right to appeal to CAS. The AFL Anti Doping Code was amended in March this year to specifically allow this:

The updated document is here, and it's under 17.2 (final para)

http://www.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL Tenant/AFL/Files/AFL Anti-Doping Code 2014 FINAL.pdf

ASADA, WADA and a Player shall also have the right to appeal to CAS with respect to the decision of the Appeals Board. Any party filing an appeal shall be entitled to assistance from CAS to obtain all relevant information from the Anti-Doping Organisation whose decision is being appealed and the information shall be provided if CAS so directs.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Has any athlete been successful at CAS?

 

[rumply]

guys players do have the right to appeal to CAS. The AFL Anti Doping Code was amended in March this year to specifically allow this:

The updated document is here, and it's under 17.2 (final para)

http://www.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL Tenant/AFL/Files/AFL Anti-Doping Code 2014 FINAL.pdf

ASADA, WADA and a Player shall also have the right to appeal to CAS with respect to the decision of the Appeals Board. Any party filing an appeal shall be entitled to assistance from CAS to obtain all relevant information from the Anti-Doping Organisation whose decision is being appealed and the information shall be provided if CAS so directs.

Good one LU, seemed highly prejudicial for players not to also have that right.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Has any athlete been successful at CAS?

of course they have