No Oppo Supporters CAS hands down guilty verdict - Players appealing - Dank shot - no opposition - (cont in pt.2)

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letstayunited

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Yep

Hird can be easily replaced my main concern is the possibility of players suing EFC (don't think it will happen) but who knows

Don Bradman could easily have been replaced. Michael Jordan too.

In all seriousness, I know the camparison's different but for all you know Hird could be the best coach we've ever had. He also appears loves the club more than anyone else.

All in all he clearly appears to be our best chance for sustained success.
 
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Don Bradman could easily have been replaced. Michael Jordan too.

In all seriousness, I know the camparison's different but for all you know Hird could be the best coach we've ever had. He also appears loves the club more than anyone else.

All in all he clearly appears to be our best chance for sustained success.

I agree 100%

The public need to move the * on about Hird coaching EFC whether they like it or not.
 

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rines

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AFL had to amend their rules to allow CAS appeals because it was plain wrong that you weren't allowed to in the first place.

Good get LU.. as always spot on the money.

However I wouldn't be worrying about appeals right now.. let's see if it gets through tribunal first.. heck even the ADRVP first...
 
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AFL had to amend their rules to allow CAS appeals because it was plain wrong that you weren't allowed to in the first place.

Good get LU.. as always spot on the money.

However I wouldn't be worrying about appeals right now.. let's see if it gets through tribunal first.. heck even the ADRVP first...


Yeah, hopefully appeals become a non-issue. It is interesting though that until recently AFL players did not have that right of appeal - wonder if the same exists/existed for Rubgy League/Union etc.
 

TheFrenchCut

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guys players do have the right to appeal to CAS. The AFL Anti Doping Code was amended in March this year to specifically allow this:

The updated document is here, and it's under 17.2 (final para)

http://www.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL Tenant/AFL/Files/AFL Anti-Doping Code 2014 FINAL.pdf

ASADA, WADA and a Player shall also have the right to appeal to CAS with respect to the decision of the Appeals Board. Any party filing an appeal shall be entitled to assistance from CAS to obtain all relevant information from the Anti-Doping Organisation whose decision is being appealed and the information shall be provided if CAS so directs.

Great pickup worthy of Gilchrist.
 

cymarak

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If the AFL can amend its anti-doping code this year - to give players CAS appeal rights - and have that apply to possible doping violations in 2012, why couldn't the AFL, for example, amend its anti-doping code to eliminate provisional suspensions in the absence of an AAF ?

Or to remove the virtually automatic requirement for the AFL to issue infraction notices when a player is placed on the RoF ?

Is it lack of desire to make the changes on the part of the AFL, or lack of ability ?
 
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If the AFL can amend its anti-doping code this year - to give players CAS appeal rights - and have that apply to possible doping violations in 2012, why couldn't the AFL, for example, amend its anti-doping code to eliminate provisional suspensions in the absence of an AAF ?

Or to remove the virtually automatic requirement for the AFL to issue infraction notices when a player is placed on the RoF ?

Is it lack of desire to make the changes on the part of the AFL, or lack of ability ?
I'd imagine it's because the AFL Anti Doping Code needs to be as close as possible to the WADA code. Most of what you've mentioned would be a significant shift from the WADA code and thus not possible.

Under 13.2.3 the 2015 WADA code specifically says the athlete can appeal to CAS, so that's not a significant shift. Mind you, the 2009 WADA code said the same thing so I'm not sure if the omission was an error in the first place. Seems unlikely, but I can't explain it.
 
Seems to be alot of confusion surrounding this issue, found what I read last week

Chris Kaias ‏@ChrisKaias Oct 18
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/essendon-players-have-10-days-to-respond-to-showcause-notices-20141017-117vs1.html… Only WADA/ASADA have rights to appeal to CAS according to Code, not players @Pierik_AgeSport



Richard Ings ‏@ringsau Sep 26
@DrBenKoh Only WADA/ASADA have CAS appeal rights under the normal AFL processes. AFL players are not considered "international" athletes

And I continue to read from Olympic Athletes that professional sports associations should be treated like Olympic Athletes - But I never hear them discuss how AFL players can't appeal to CAS - We never hear this from Olympic athletes.

EDIT; Lance answered my questions - Still makes you wonder why this wasn't in the code from day one.
 

Xyle01

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If Hird were to be charged with trafficking banned PEDs, would people be happy to see him stood aside pending outcome?

Whilst you clearly want to see Hird gone from the club (your reasons are irrelevant) many of us do not. Why would we need to speculate on something that is very unlikely to ever happen.
 

2one2

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Why the * do ASADA need guest appearances from these people?!? They have interviewed them and got everything they felt was required for their investigation, why do they need to cross examine them like witnesses in court? This stinks of ASADA STILL working on a case that should be finished after the good part of two years. Either there's good material from these people in the SCN packages or there isn't.
 

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Why the **** do ASADA need guest appearances from these people?!? They have interviewed them and got everything they felt was required for their investigation, why do they need to cross examine them like witnesses in court? This stinks of ASADA STILL working on a case that should be finished after the good part of two years. Either there's good material from these people in the SCN packages or there isn't.

Isn't it our guys who would be doing the cross examining?
 
If Hird were to be charged with trafficking banned PEDs, would people be happy to see him stood aside pending outcome?

Depends of the timing and how quickly it can reach the outcome. Off-season and resolved in 3 months might be manageable. But really no point in guessing until that scenario presents itself.
 
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Depends of the timing and how quickly it can reach the outcome. Off-season and resolved in 3 months might be manageable. But really no point in guessing until that scenario presents itself.

I ask because should it be established "officially" that there was TB4 at EFC, I expect him to be charged - linking up a supply chain through Charter introductions etc.

I should say I don't think such charges would stick, but were he to be charged I can't see how the AFL would allow him to sit in the coaching chair throughout.

And with all this noise lately about the players fast racking things pre Xmas, it would just be fantastic timing were this to eventuate in Jan / Feb, leaving us ****ed without a coach.

Just a few thoughts
 

Eleven 38

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Where the **** did this Hird trafficking come from? He'd have already been banned if that was the case. Much easier to prove a coach trafficking than to prove a player took a banned drug without a +ve test.

It's the stupidest thing I've heard today, I feel dumber for reading it.
 
I ask because should it be established "officially" that there was TB4 at EFC, I expect him to be charged - linking up a supply chain through Charter introductions etc.

I should say I don't think such charges would stick, but were he to be charged I can't see how the AFL would allow him to sit in the coaching chair throughout.

And with all this noise lately about the players fast racking things pre Xmas, it would just be fantastic timing were this to eventuate in Jan / Feb, leaving us ****** without a coach.

Just a few thoughts

It will be one helluva stretch to charge him with trafficking even within the loose anti doping interpretation. On what we know even getting a show cause for that would be the lowest point in this entire affair. Having said that I would not rule it out.
 
Where the **** did this Hird trafficking come from? He'd have already been banned if that was the case. Much easier to prove a coach trafficking than to prove a player took a banned drug without a +ve test.

It's the stupidest thing I've heard today, I feel dumber for reading it.

Its come from speculation that Hird is fighting the Asada case because he is expecting to receive a SC for trafficking.
 
Sep 22, 2011
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More this

http://mobile.news.com.au/sport/afl...shanghai-factory/story-fndv7pj3-1227088199608

The agency’s key witness is Shane Charter, who has run anti-ageing clinics.

He alleges that sports scientist Stephen Dank asked him to source Thymosin beta-4 in quantities sufficient to treat a football squad.

I think it's fairly well established that it was Hird who put Dank and Charter together for the purposes of supply, for use at the club he coaches.

As I said, I don't think it'd stick, as it'd have to be established that Hird was specifically trying to get banned substances through the supply chain. But I think it's a chance to be pursued.
 
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More this

http://mobile.news.com.au/sport/afl...shanghai-factory/story-fndv7pj3-1227088199608



I think it's fairly well established that it was Hird who put Dank and Charter together for the purposes of supply, for use at the club he coaches.

As I said, I don't think it'd stick, as it'd have to be established that Hird was specifically trying to get banned substances through the supply chain. But I think it's a chance to be pursued.
actually trafficking from an anti-doping perspective is quite different to how we usually understand it. Transporting substances in and out of the club could do it, a la Sandor Earl. I just hope no coaches were dumb enough to be that "hands on" with anything at all let alone anything prohibited
 
Sep 22, 2011
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actually trafficking from an anti-doping perspective is quite different to how we usually understand it. Transporting substances in and out of the club could do it, a la Sandor Earl. I just hope no coaches were dumb enough to be that "hands on" with anything at all let alone anything prohibited

I wouldn't have thought that for a second... it's the Hird brokering a Charter and Dank relationship that is the worry. If it's proven that led to banned PEDS at EFC, I fully expect a charge for Hird to be thrown up to see if it flies.
 

Xyle01

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I wouldn't have thought that for a second... it's the Hird brokering a Charter and Dank relationship that is the worry. If it's proven that led to banned PEDS at EFC, I fully expect a charge for Hird to be thrown up to see if it flies.

Both Dank and Charter have stated in interviews that Dank arranged for Charter to meet Hird. Hird was not even aware of Charter being present until he was in front of him. Stop perpetuating incorrect facts to suit your agenda.
 
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