Opinion The NBA Thread

[Primetime Pricey]

Only preseason.... Look at the West... Clips, Spurs, Thunder positions 13, 14 and 15.

Nah. Its more then that. You can tell its not going to work with this bunch. Not once all preseason have I got the impression these guys will be able to implement the new system and play d.

 

[aussielondon]

Push off.

I assume you mean what MJ did at the end there... well maybe but since he is the greatest of all time, I think he didn't push off Russell, that was an optical illusion lol

Btw, who thinks that Michael Jordan should come back as a role player off the bench on the Cavs?
They lack depth on the bench and they don't have much after their starting 5, so I think that Jordan could provide come good minutes to help out.
He hasn't lost his jump shooting skills and all after all, just maybe he can't last the full length of a game like he used to because of his age.

 

[Knightmare]

As much as I am a Bulls fan and an MJ fan I find it a misnomer that MJ is the greater ball player of all time.

I'd take Wilt and Bill Russell before I would MJ and in my view it's a lack of understanding of how dominant the old greats were that lead people to preferring the greats of the 80s/90s (ESPN era - who consistently fail to recognise the old greats).

Wilt is the most dominant force the game has seen. 100 points in a game. 50 points and 25 rebound average in a season. The most dominant block shot the game and while blocks were not a recorded stat back when he played he in one game is thought to have had 29 blocks. Never fouled out. Led the league in assists as a centre. Averaging more than 48 minutes a game in a season. 54% career field goal percentage with a career best of 72%+. I'd also be inclined to class him as a more incredible athletic specimen than LeBron James. 7'1 without shoes. Wingspan of 7'9 (longest ever recorded wingspan - longer than Rudy Gobert/JaVale McGee). Had a 48' vertical jump (higher than MJ). He could bench press 500 pounds (more than Arnold Schwarzenegger could bench press with Arnold's best 450 pounds). 49 seconds over 400 yards (400m). The guy is on another level and is the real greatest of all time and it's not even close.

Russell is the greatest team player of all time with his best ever blocking ability with his numbers considered to be the next best to Wilt's but what he did that was special was he used that shotblocking ability offensively, swatting shots from underneath and directing them cleanly to teammates and rather than just swatting shots out of bounds to show off as is commonly seen today. His rebounding ability similarly was on a near Wilt level and he similarly used that offensively, instructing his perimeter teammates to run as soon as the ball was moving towards him and he'd throw the ball up the court for easy finishes. And those talents directly correlated to wins helping him to his 11 championships and helping to make his teammates better.

In saying that I also give MJ massive props. He would be greater again if he played today. No handchecking, easier to get to the line and more space with 3pt shooters to spread the floor. That and he also played in that triangle under Phil Jackson which emphasises team play, ball movement and limits 1v1 play which was MJ's specialty as certainly the greatest 1v1 perimeter player. He could today in his prime have a 40 point season and come close to averaging 35 points a game over his career.

Oscar Robertson and Kareem would round out my top 5 who also don't get the props they should. Oscar with a triple double of 30 points, 10 rebounds and 10 assists per season? Seriously? And for that matter the only guy in NBA history to average a triple double in a season. Then Kareem with his durability and the NBA's all time leading scorer and top 3 all time in rebounds and blocks? And the single most unstoppable move in NBA history - the what was at 7'2 an undefendable sky-hook.

 

[Primetime Pricey]

I like anyone who takes a peg off Jordan Knightmare lol

 

[Knightmare]

I like anyone who takes a peg off Jordan Knightmare lol

It's more just seeing the greatest pre 1980 as being wrongly evaluated and not spoken about enough or given the kudos for how good they actually were.

If you listen to many media people talking NBA they'll continually bring up Magic, Bird, LeBron, Kobe as being top 5 players. Top 10? I'd have them top 10 all time, or LeBron to eventually become top 10 all time but not top 5.

MJ for his generation was the best in my view by a long short and the greatest guard we've seen but the old greats I regard more highly again.

 

[Primetime Pricey]

It's more just seeing the greatest pre 1980 as being wrongly evaluated and not spoken about enough or given the kudos for how good they actually were.

If you listen to many media people talking NBA they'll continually bring up Magic, Bird, LeBron, Kobe as being top 5 players. Top 10? I'd have them top 10 all time, or LeBron to eventually become top 10 all time but not top 5.

MJ for his generation was the best in my view by a long short and the greatest guard we've seen but the old greats I regard more highly again.

LeBron will end up being top 5 IMO. Have never seen a guy carry a team single handedly like has.
Yeah Jordan is the best but people act like he won it himself where he had the most stacked team to ever win and won nothing without Pippen but thats a whole other argument.

 

[Knightmare]

LeBron will end up being top 5 IMO. Have never seen a guy carry a team single handedly like has.
Yeah Jordan is the best but people act like he won it himself where he had the most stacked team to ever win and won nothing without Pippen but thats a whole other argument.

Even if LeBron plays to 37/38 and continues to produce roughly the numbers he does I'd still take
1. Wilt
2. Russell
3. MJ
4. Kareem
5. Oscar
6. Elgin Baylor

There are guys who have on another level again dominated.

LeBron is more in the Magic/Bird/Olajuwon/Kobe/Shaq/Duncan conversation in those next few for me if he continues to produce. Plausibly above those guys but not ahead of the old greats.

Even Elgin Baylor was on another level at his best. The guy had a 34.8 point, 19.4 rebound season and a 38.3 point and 18.6 rebound season.

LBJ hasn't even come close to averaging a triple double which Oscar averaged over his first five seasons while also during that time averaged over thirty points per game.

With MJ who knows what he may have won without Pippen. I agree with the premise that one player doesn't win championships on their own, it's not singles in tennis, but MJ in his era was by far and away the best and it wasn't even close. People will feel endeared to various styles of play of various players if I want to win in the 80s/90s give me MJ as my centrepiece.

 

[DaicosianMarvels]

Hopefully the Lakers don't go as bad as last season but I am not expecting much for another few seasons at least from them.

With the Lakers being no threat this season, I am all for the Chicago Bulls winning the championship. I love the Bulls and my favorite player in the the league is the mighty D Rose and he will be back firing.

Don't think the Cavs will win it this year and I am very confident with that opinion. Winner will be out of Bulls, Spurs or OKC but the Bulls are my pick to win it.

 

[BoxMatrix]

Even if LeBron plays to 37/38 and continues to produce roughly the numbers he does I'd still take
1. Wilt
2. Russell
3. MJ
4. Kareem
5. Oscar
6. Elgin Baylor

There are guys who have on another level again dominated.

LeBron is more in the Magic/Bird/Olajuwon/Kobe/Shaq/Duncan conversation in those next few for me if he continues to produce. Plausibly above those guys but not ahead of the old greats.

Even Elgin Baylor was on another level at his best. The guy had a 34.8 point, 19.4 rebound season and a 38.3 point and 18.6 rebound season.

With MJ who knows what he may have won without Pippen. I agree with the premise that one player doesn't win championships on their own, it's not singles in tennis, but MJ in his era was by far and away the best and it wasn't even close. People will feel endeared to various styles of play of various players if I want to win in the 80s/90s give me MJ as my centrepiece.

Serious? Surely not.

Kobe is the best missing player from the list. He is a better shooter than anyone who has ever played. That is a fact. 81 points solidifies that fact. Kobe has more assists anyone in that top 6 (besides Oscar) so saying he doesn't pass is a stupid statement. The guy has the more drive and determination than anyone who has ever played the game. Kobe has the uncanny ability to lift his teammates abilities. I mean, look at our 2009-2010 championship teams. Kobe dragged us to those championships by making sure everyone did there part on the team. His clutch moments ranging from playoffs aall the way to the olympics make him a truly great player

Duncan is someone who I also respect and is also on the verge of the top 6 players with his amazing skill and ball handling. He is so skilled for someone of his body type and build. Amazing player.

Personally, Wilt and Russell need to be lower. The eras they played in had such shorter players and the game was so much different.

My List

1. Kobe
2. MJ
3. Russell
4. Wilt
5. Oscar

I'm probably gonna cop a bit of flack for Kobe, but he has proven to me and to a huge portion of the basketball world that he is the best player of all time.

 

[Knightmare]

Serious? Surely not.

Kobe is the best missing player from the list. He is a better shooter than anyone who has ever played. That is a fact. 81 points solidifies that fact. Kobe has more assists anyone in that top 6 (besides Oscar) so saying he doesn't pass is a stupid statement. The guy has the more drive and determination than anyone who has ever played the game. Kobe has the uncanny ability to lift his teammates abilities. I mean, look at our 2009-2010 championship teams. Kobe dragged us to those championships by making sure everyone did there part on the team. His clutch moments ranging from playoffs aall the way to the olympics make him a truly great player

Duncan is someone who I also respect and is also on the verge of the top 6 players with his amazing skill and ball handling. He is so skilled for someone of his body type and build. Amazing player.

Personally, Wilt and Russell need to be lower. The eras they played in had such shorter players and the game was so much different.

My List

1. Kobe
2. MJ
3. Russell
4. Wilt
5. Oscar

I'm probably gonna cop a bit of flack for Kobe, but he has proven to me and to a huge portion of the basketball world that he is the best player of all time.

In an MJ v Kobe comparison it's not even close.

MJ has a better career average in points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks and has a significantly higher FG% while also averaging less turnovers per game. They're all the major statistical categories that most strongly correlate to winning. And Kobe's averages at this stage in his career are online further decreasing. MJ similarly if you take his best season v Kobe's best season in each of these categories matches up favourably to Kobe. Additionally MJ played in an era that made it harder for perimeter players while Kobe has played in an era where the game has never been easier for perimeter players and actually plays into the hands of perimeter players with handchecking no longer permitted and a general weakening in the level of competition and less greats to compete against. That and as they say in all the MJ v Kobe debates 6 championships is better than 5.

I understand based on those rankings that you are a Kobe fan. But the reality is it's not even close. Kobe is more someone I would rate around 10 all time without committing to saying he is without question a top 10 guy with Olajuwon/Magic/Bird/LeBron/Duncan all in that same conversation.

On Wilt and Russell they played in an era where the competition was at its greatest as there were less teams (around 10) then and there also was the greatest quality of bigs in the league, resulting in you playing the best teams more often.
Wilt was so dominant he would rag-doll Shaquille O'Neal at his heaviest playing weight. Wilt would achieve the same numbers, maybe better in this era as there was no shotclock in his time, the bigs today are light on for quality compared to any era and with fouls given more liberally today he would get to the line even more consistently than he did. He could average 50 points, 25 rebounds and 10 blocks a game today if he wanted to and in any era can achieve whatever numbers he wants.
Then Russell would in the same ways dominate today. His game wasn't power based. He just did things in a more meaningful way to winning than anyone else has with the way he blocked from underneath to direct the block shots, consistently timing and placing it perfectly. The similarly with his rebounding in passing long up the floor.

Duncan is terrific as a no fuss superstar and his consistency over time is to be admired. He just hasn't had the absolute monster top end seasons of some of the other greats as a guy who has only ever had the one 25 point average in a season and has never averaged 3 blocks a game in a season or even 13 rebounds per game in a season.

--
These debates are always interesting with the interpretations and people interpreting stats differently etc but it's a discussion I always enjoy as my views differ with few really studying the greats of the past in great detail or in my view giving the old greats the respect they deserve.

 

[shizzle]

For most improved watch for Rudy Gobert from the Utah Jazz. While he has zero offensive game he is a longer again Tyson Chandler as a big time rebounder and block shot who around the rim will get the putback dunks and do the dirty work. He can really breakout and if I was running the Jazz I'd be starting him. Really like his game.

I just had to bring this up, you are right on the money with Go Go Gobert. I was watching a preseason game the other day against possibly the Clippers?, whoever it was he had 20 rebounds in 22 minutes, just a ridiculous reach.

Forming a nice little partnership with Exum, plenty of alley oops between the two so far.

Have to say new coach Quin Snyder has been ultra impressive, preseason form I know, but things are finally looking up in Utah.

 

[Knightmare]

I just had to bring this up, you are right on the money with Go Go Gobert. I was watching a preseason game the other day against possibly the Clippers?, whoever it was he had 20 rebounds in 22 minutes, just a ridiculous reach.

Forming a nice little partnership with Exum, plenty of alley oops between the two so far.

Have to say new coach Quin Snyder has been ultra impressive, preseason form I know, but things are finally looking up in Utah.

Gobert's work during the World Championships for France also was incredible if you caught any of those games. Maybe he doesn't start over Kanter, and Kanter is a starting quality big and Favors is their franchise player as another big but Gobert if he gets minutes I feel strongly will establish himself and play starting quality ball and go on to become a top half starting centre in the game with time. He can't shoot and can't convert from the line, but blocks, rebounds, finishing at the rim. That's all he does and all he needs to do.

I feel the Jazz will be slightly better than what they are being given credit for. In the season projects they are generally rated 28th/29th depending on who you listen to but I'll go with 24th/25th. Still young and still going to be a building process but I see the Jazz improving slightly and being more competitive with that frontline particularly with Gobert if he can get minutes and Favors to also step up again this year to be on the slow but steady improve.

 

[wicksy]

Serious? Surely not.

Kobe is the best missing player from the list. He is a better shooter than anyone who has ever played. That is a fact. 81 points solidifies that fact. Kobe has more assists anyone in that top 6 (besides Oscar) so saying he doesn't pass is a stupid statement. The guy has the more drive and determination than anyone who has ever played the game. Kobe has the uncanny ability to lift his teammates abilities. I mean, look at our 2009-2010 championship teams. Kobe dragged us to those championships by making sure everyone did there part on the team. His clutch moments ranging from playoffs aall the way to the olympics make him a truly great player

Duncan is someone who I also respect and is also on the verge of the top 6 players with his amazing skill and ball handling. He is so skilled for someone of his body type and build. Amazing player.

Personally, Wilt and Russell need to be lower. The eras they played in had such shorter players and the game was so much different.

My List

1. Kobe
2. MJ
3. Russell
4. Wilt
5. Oscar

I'm probably gonna cop a bit of flack for Kobe, but he has proven to me and to a huge portion of the basketball world that he is the best player of all time.

How do you feel about Kobe destroying the Lakers future by tying up ridiculous portions of their cap?

Personally I think its glorious.
Lakers = The Carlton of the NBA.

 

[Knightmare]

How do you feel about Kobe destroying the Lakers future by tying up ridiculous portions of their cap?

Personally I think its glorious.
Lakers = The Carlton of the NBA.

Kobe and Nash. May have been terrific 5+ years ago but not so much today.

Kobe will sell tickets but that team could even finish bottom seed in the West. As much as I respect Boozer, J.Hill and appreciate Randle as a talent through the draft. It's just a really poorly assembled roster.
Nash and Lin both like their uptempo games where they both have the ball. Then they've got Kobe who will have the ball on just about all offensive plays. No one on the wings/no high level three point shooters. Then a bunch of very good power forwards with no true centre.

They're likely to win the award for worst chemistry in the league I'd say as this years Detroit Pistons West.

 

[shizzle]

Pre Season I know but here's a few stats I found.

 

[Frankmagpie]

Don't know if we have one, but I've noticed a few posters around who seem to talk a little ball and thought it would be good fun to have a thread dedicated to it.

Personally can't wait for the season to start.. So many questions to be answered:

• Can my man D. Rose get up to his best again?
• Will the Cavs be the unstoppable force they're threatening to be?
• What can the Pacers do without George and Stevenson?
• Bolters from outside playoffs and dark horses
• Spurs back to back?
• Is Tim Duncan human?
• Kobe's value to LA

Gotta get my league pass sorted ASAP!

Surprise of the year
Washington Wizards
Paul pierce upgrade on T Ariza
In a weak East conference especially now no pacers(George) Bulls and cavs pretty much new starters need time to mesh and find form
Wouldn't be surprised to see the
Wizards in the Eastern conf finals

 

[Frankmagpie]

Pre Season I know but here's a few stats I found.

Going by those stats Utahs the team to beat 7th in off 1st in D
Already got my Dante jersey on order

 

[shizzle]

Going by those stats Utahs the team to beat 7th in off 1st in D

Will be a long season and I'm trying to balance my expectations, but the new coach is a gun and perfect for this group, really like what I've seen and heard from him. They will definitely improve on last years effort.

They drafted well, Hood a steal at 23. Didn't add much else, Novak can shoot the 3 ball but offers very little on D, Booker is ok. Just noticed they've added Joe Ingles, Dante will be happy about that.

Looking forward to seeing Alec Burks this season, he is a freak!!

 

[Frankmagpie]

It's more just seeing the greatest pre 1980 as being wrongly evaluated and not spoken about enough or given the kudos for how good they actually were.

If you listen to many media people talking NBA they'll continually bring up Magic, Bird, LeBron, Kobe as being top 5 players. Top 10? I'd have them top 10 all time, or LeBron to eventually become top 10 all time but not top 5.

MJ for his generation was the best in my view by a long short and the greatest guard we've seen but the old greats I regard more highly again.

Couldn't agree more dude people disregard the late60s 70s way to easily
Rules favoured defenders back then way more now adays it favours scorers all about the attacking player way less to get away with on d nowadays
Ever heard of when the hand check was included in the rule book

 

[the mighty T]

Couple of good performances today worth mentioning.. okay, really just one.. I'm buying an Anthony Davis jersey! 9 blocks??!! Freak.

Dallas looked streaky in the second half but you can see they've improved.

Nothing in Orlando or at the Lakers worth watching. Not even Kobe

 

[the mighty T]

Surprise of the year
Washington Wizards
Paul pierce upgrade on T Ariza
In a weak East conference especially now no pacers(George) Bulls and cavs pretty much new starters need time to mesh and find form
Wouldn't be surprised to see the
Wizards in the Eastern conf finals

Wiz are a huge chance to lock in the top 4.. impressive group and Pierce was a steal. What about Charlotte though? Huge fan of Born Ready.

You're right though, this should be the Chicago and Cleaveland show at the top of the East, but with the right matchup, the Wiz could definitely be in the mix

 

[shizzle]

Too good not to share...

 

[Good_Old]

Too good not to share...

He handles the ball quite often too, in the pre-season at least anyway.

I was thinking, has there ever been a time that we've had so much Australian talent in the NBA as there is at the moment?

 

[shizzle]

He handles the ball quite often too, in the pre-season at least anyway.

I was thinking, has there ever been a time that we've had so much Australian talent in the NBA as there is at the moment?

He's a great passer, I think when he was very young before he got a massive growth spurt he played at the point, that had a bit to do with it.

We're looking good aren't we, shame Bogut and Mills missed the world champs, would have got a medal I reckon. Baynes has been looking real good, even Brock "dial up" Motum was decent before getting the chop from Utah.

Looking down the track, Ben Simmons is expected to be a top 3 pick either this year or next. There's also Thon Maker who is an absolute freak, not sure if he will play for us or Canada at this stage though.

 

[the mighty T]

Anyone surprised or disappointed by the start of the season? Dont think anyone expected the Kings to have as many wins on the board, but I was confident that Cleveland would struggle to find their feet early on.