Unpopular Basketball Opinions

[jod23]

I dont hate LeBron. I dont love him either, plenty of other players in the league with more personality or more reasons to love them.

I like how I call you out on being wrong though and you just say... oh you just hate LeBron.

Honestly, do you believe him leaving Cleveland to join up with two other superstars to create a super team was really awesome? Or do you think it tarnishes his legacy that he had to do that to get a ring.

Although in his defense. It's a sign of the times. Today it's all about free agency and and signing several superstars. Having a big three and all that crap. Back in MJ's days. Each superstar had their team. They didnt want to join forces, they wanted to beat the crap outta eachother.

I guess LeBron is just doing what today's NBA dictates. He is just doing it better than everyone else. Wade and Bosh and now Love and Irving.

 

[jod23]

I mean you compare it to Jordan. He faced the same struggles that LeBron did. Playing in his beloved Chicago and getting no help year after year. Making his team very good, but just not good enough to beat the best without some help. That was LeBron in Cleveland.

Jordan dug in.

LeBron bailed and joined a super team.

That was and is the difference.

 

[fidstar]

People who use this argument show their little knowledge of the NBA.

MJ played with Rodman, Pippen, Kukoc, Kerr etc throughout his career.

LBJ in Cleveland played with superstars like Big Z, Mo Williams, Sasha Pavlovic, Eric Snow, Scott Pollard etc.

The argument is that LeBron joined a superstar team. Bulls were built predominately thought through drafting. Rodman was an add-on that was almost on his way out of the league due to his behavior (I mean the Bulls gave up a backup center for him when they traded). Rodman obviously worked out. It should also be noted that only one of those four names you mentioned was there for all 6 championships.

lol at including Kerr.

 

[fidstar]

What all time great teams did Jordan come up against in the finals?

I seriously doubt his Bulls beat the 2014 Spurs.

I see it has been commented on about some of the great teams the Bulls came up against.

If you had asked me during the regular season, or even the first 3 rounds of the playoffs, I would have said the Bulls would have comfortably beaten the Spurs. But if the Spurs had played like they did in the Finals it would have been a hell of a series. Duncan vs Rodman, Jordan vs Lenard, Pippen vs Parker and Phil vs Pop. Would be a great series and a hard one to pick.

 

[didaksrightfoot]

I think the Lebron - Jordan argument is not entirely relevant to how much i disagree with the sentiment that Lebron is only a top 10 player and will only be top 5 at the end of his career.

As for Jordan - i feel that Lebrons first stint at Cleveland is incredibly similar to Jordans pre-title years and he faced very similar criticism. I will always criticise Lebron for jumping ship to Miami - but there's no doubting that Jordan had better teammates and played under a HoF coach (whilst time has shown how incompetent Mike Brown is).
Jordans 6 titles came in the period of his career that Lebron has recently entered... Lebron has 2 titles already - and time will tell how his career ends up rating compared to Jordan.

What i do want to ask - which 9 other guys do you rate above Lebron right now?

 

[jod23]

I think the Lebron - Jordan argument is not entirely relevant to how much i disagree with the sentiment that Lebron is only a top 10 player and will only be top 5 at the end of his career.

As for Jordan - i feel that Lebrons first stint at Cleveland is incredibly similar to Jordans pre-title years and he faced very similar criticism. I will always criticise Lebron for jumping ship to Miami - but there's no doubting that Jordan had better teammates and played under a HoF coach (whilst time has shown how incompetent Mike Brown is).
Jordans 6 titles came in the period of his career that Lebron has recently entered... Lebron has 2 titles already - and time will tell how his career ends up rating compared to Jordan.

What i do want to ask - which 9 other guys do you rate above Lebron right now?

Right now id have Jordan, Magic, Bird, Kareem, Wilt, Russell, Shaq, Kobe, Oscar then LeBron in maybe 10th. He has plenty of time to move up the list though. Needs more rings. His rings will always be a little tainted though as he has made two super teams to get them.

 

[jod23]

I see it has been commented on about some of the great teams the Bulls came up against.

If you had asked me during the regular season, or even the first 3 rounds of the playoffs, I would have said the Bulls would have comfortably beaten the Spurs. But if the Spurs had played like they did in the Finals it would have been a hell of a series. Duncan vs Rodman, Jordan vs Lenard, Pippen vs Parker and Phil vs Pop. Would be a great series and a hard one to pick.

It would be a hell of a series, but I still back the Bulls to win it just because defensively they are super elite. Also Leonard is starting to come into his own but he hasnt fully formed yet and Jordan would abuse him. Would probably go 6 or 7 though.

 

[djrossie16]

Philly will win more than 15 games

 

[Son of Skeletor]

I'm not going to get into Jordan vs LeBron vs... whoever, because I don't care. It's a subjective argument and ultimately futile. However the argument that the 90s Bulls beat up on sub-par teams is pretty spurious.

All the teams that they faced in the Finals - Lakers, Blazers, Suns, Sonics and Jazz - were consistent .700 teams over a number of years. The West was democratic in the 90s, without a singular dominant team, but it certainly wasn't weak. The Lakers during the 80s benefited far more than the Bulls ever did from beating up on weaklings in a poor conference.

Conversely the Lakers of the early aughts beat a couple of the weakest Finals teams of all time, but had to to slog through a tough conference to reach the Finals in the first place. Same applies for several of the Spurs championships.

 

[Wizard]

Philly will win more than 15 games

In the 14/15 and 15/16 seasons combined?

 

[JB_91]

Philly will win more than 15 games

Don't mind this! They actually have some good young talent across four positions once MCW gets back. Noel will be a monster and Wroten/McDaniels both look promising.

 

[djrossie16]

Don't mind this! They actually have some good young talent across four positions once MCW gets back. Noel will be a monster and Wroten/McDaniels both look promising.

it's gonna be touch and go

 

[Trent Conheady]

Don't mind this! They actually have some good young talent across four positions once MCW gets back. Noel will be a monster and Wroten/McDaniels both look promising.

What if they trade away players to make the extremely clever move of accumulating second round picks at the trade deadline again (please detect sarcasm)

 

[jod23]

I dont even know how unpopular this is right now... but AD to win the MVP this season.

 

[smashh]

I dont even know how unpopular this is right now... but AD to win the MVP this season.

He's one LBJ injury away from winning it by default. I wouldn't quite say Bradbury because it'd still be well deserved, but pretty close...

 

[didaksrightfoot]

I dont even know how unpopular this is right now... but AD to win the MVP this season.

I think it all comes down to if he can push the Pelicans into the playoffs (or top 4 in the west) - which is no easy task.

 

[jod23]

He's one LBJ injury away from winning it by default. I wouldn't quite say Bradbury because it'd still be well deserved, but pretty close...

With KD35 injured, it's LeBron's to lose. Obviously a long term injury would make it wide open. CP3, Blake, Curry, Davis, Rose, Melo plus others would all have shouts then.

But even if LeBron stays fit, I can see AD winning it possibly this season, but almost nailed on for next season. He is a beast.

 

[jod23]

I think it all comes down to if he can push the Pelicans into the playoffs (or top 4 in the west) - which is no easy task.

That's probably the one thing that will work against him. The West is so packed. Spurs, Houston, OKC (will be fine once KD and Westy get back) and the Clippers are pretty much nailed on for the playoffs. Then you have Portland and Dallas, Memphis are very good and have started 3-0. Golden State are stacked. That's 8 already.

Then you have a very talented Phoenix squad. Denver will push for a playoff spot. Even Sacramento are improving. The only three real weak teams in the conference are Minny, Utah and the Lakers.

So New Orleans have their work cut out for them. They could certainly nab a 7th or 8th seed though, purely on how beastly AD gets.

 

[smashh]

With KD35 injured, it's LeBron's to lose. Obviously a long term injury would make it wide open. CP3, Blake, Curry, Davis, Rose, Melo plus others would all have shouts then.

But even if LeBron stays fit, I can see AD winning it possibly this season, but almost nailed on for next season. He is a beast.

Don't sleep on Bosh. Was an MVP candidate with Toronto, he's now the guy again and he's become a much improved player than he was with the Raps. With the Durant/RW injuries I have Bosh finishing in 3rd.

 

[stewie griffen]

An injury or two and the MVP is wiiiide open

 

[Damon_3388]

Every team Jordan faced in the Finals was a great team. Not just the finals too. He had to beat some great teams outta the East to make it that far. The Reggie Miller led Pacers in the mid 90's and the Ewing led Knicks all the way through the 90's.

Then he has Magic's Lakers, with Worthy, Scott, Campbell, Green, Perkins, Divac, Thomspon... that team was stacked. They went 58-24 in the regular season.

Drexler's Trailblazers. Jerome Kersey, Duckworth, Ainge, Terry Porter and Cliff Robinson. Another pretty stacked team, they went 57-25 in the regular season.

The 93 Suns were crazy good. Went 62-20 in the regular season and had Barkley in his prime with KJ, Ainge, Ceballos, Chambers, Dumas and Dan Majerle. They were unlucky to run up against the Bulls.

The Sonics in 96. Payton and Kemp in their prime with support cast including Hawkins, Schrempf, Snow, Perkins, McMillan and Ervin Johnson. They went 64-18 in the regular season.

Then the Jazz in 97 and 98. Malone and Stockton in their prime. Hornacek, Russell, Anderson, Carr, Eisley they too went 64-18 in the regular season.

All those teams were Championship caliber teams. You can throw in the 98 Pacers with Reggie, Rik Smits, Antonio and Dale Davis, McKey, Mullin, Mark Jackson and Travis Best. And of course the Knicks in the say 93 who went 60-22. Ewing, Oakley, Starks, Greg Anthoney, Hubert Davis, Anthony Mason, Doc Rivers and Charles Smith. Those Pacers btw went 58-24.

Any of those teams would have been worth champions and the reason we sit around and talk about great players who finished their respective careers without rings. Well that was MJ's fault. No doubt guys like Ewing, Miller, Payton, Kemp, Malone, Stockton, Drexler could have gotten rings in those years.

I know Payton and Drexler later got them but it wasnt as the focal point, Drexler was the sidekick and Payton was just riding in the car.

We could list the regular season records and star players of every team that makes the NBA Finals, and it would probably look just as good. I mean, it's the NBA Finals. You don't make it without being a seriously good team, and having star players, whether you're on LeBron's side or not. Guys like Duncan, Nowitzki, Parker, Ginobli, Durant, Westbrook, etc. will all go down as greats of their era, some as all-time greats, and will all probably end up in the Basketball Hall of Fame.

People look at the NBA in the '90s with serious rose coloured glasses. It wasn't a better or more talented league than it is today, and wasn't as competitive as the '80s either.

 

[Hipster Doofus]

Marcus Camby, Kenyon Martin and Jermaine O'Neal.
I feel like all 3 wont be remembered in 20 years time the way they deserve. All 3 were big stars in the 2000's, and their legacies will be forever shadowed by Shaq's dominance over the same period.

 

[PP34]

Meh. There were far better big men in the 2000s.

 

[Damon_3388]

Marcus Camby, Kenyon Martin and Jermaine O'Neal.
I feel like all 3 wont be remembered in 20 years time the way they deserve. All 3 were big stars in the 2000's, and their legacies will be forever shadowed by Shaq's dominance over the same period.

All three were heavily injury-prone bigs who probably never lived up to their potential. They were all athletic and good on the defensive end, but limited/inconsistent/inefficient on the offensive end, and could be a bit foul prone at times too.

O'Neal was the best of them (6-time All-Star, somewhat indicative of the weak early 2000s Eastern Conference), but he was only a 20-10-2 guy at absolute best in his prime (always shot quite poor percentages for a big too, because he was too in love with his jump shot), was riddled by injuries from age 26 onwards, and was generally a bit soft. Camby led the league in blocked shots per game four times (1997-98, 2005-06, 2006-07, 2007-08), and Martin made one All-Star team (2003-04), but you'd expect more from guys that went as high as they did in the draft (Camby #2 in 1996, Martin #1 in 2000).

I don't think any of them are Hall of Famers. Their overall career numbers are pretty unremarkable TBH:

Camby - 29.5 mpg, 9.5 ppg (.466 FG%), 9.8 rpg, 1.9 apg, 1.0 spg, 2.4 bpg, 17.8 PER
Martin - 30.9 mpg, 12.5 ppg (.483 FG%), 6.9 rpg, 1.9 apg, 1.2 spg, 1.2 bpg, 15.1 PER
O'Neal - 27.1 mpg, 13.2 ppg (.467 FG%), 7.2 rpg, 1.4 apg, 0.5 spg, 1.8 bpg, 17.9 PER

All three missed so much basketball:

Camby - 973 of a possible 1,394 regular season games in 17 seasons (1996-2013) - average of 57 games played per year
Martin - 746 of a possible 1,148 regular season games in 14 seasons (2000-2014) - average of 53 games played per year
O'Neal - 1,011 of a possible 1,476 regular season games in 18 seasons (1996-2014) - average of 56 games played per year

 

[jod23]

All three were heavily injury-prone bigs who probably never lived up to their potential. They were all athletic and good on the defensive end, but limited/inconsistent/inefficient on the offensive end, and could be a bit foul prone at times too.

O'Neal was the best of them (6-time All-Star, somewhat indicative of the weak early 2000s Eastern Conference), but he was really only a 20-9-2 guy at absolute best in his prime (always shot quite poor percentages for a big too, because he was too in love with his jump shot), was riddled by injuries from age 26 onwards, and was generally a bit soft. Camby led the league in blocked shots per game four times (1997-98, 2005-06, 2006-07, 2007-08), and Martin made one All-Star team (2003-04), but you'd expect more from guys that went as high as they did in the draft (Camby #2 in 1996, Martin #1 in 2000).

I don't think any of them are Hall of Famers. Their overall career numbers are pretty unremarkable TBH:

Camby - 29.5 mpg, 9.5 ppg (.466 FG%), 9.8 rpg, 1.9 apg, 1.0 spg, 2.4 bpg, 17.8 PER
Martin - 30.9 mpg, 12.5 ppg (.483 FG%), 6.9 rpg, 1.9 apg, 1.2 spg, 1.2 bpg, 15.1 PER
O'Neal - 27.1 mpg, 13.2 ppg (.467 FG%), 7.2 rpg, 1.4 apg, 0.5 spg, 1.8 bpg, 17.9 PER

All three missed so much basketball:

Camby - 973 of a possible 1,394 regular season games in 17 seasons (1996-2013) - average of 57 games played per year
Martin - 746 of a possible 1,148 regular season games in 14 seasons (2000-2014) - average of 53 games played per year
O'Neal - 1,011 of a possible 1,476 regular season games in 18 seasons (1996-2014) - average of 56 games played per year

This. None were greats of the game and certainly nowhere near HOFers.