Last in 2015, First in 2016

[Seedsfan]

We should be aiming for top 8 no point finishing last ye have a proud history with only finishing last in 1976 and 1999 we do not want to add to that

 

[Lefthanded]

Before the advent of free agency I would have said maybe. But only if injuries left us crippled to the point where we could begin to 'list manage'. I was in favour of finishing low, if not tanking. People always point to the example of Melbourne and Carlton as reasons why tanking is a fallacy but they forget that Geelong and Hawthorn both had down years. Geelongs year in the wilderness, while not technically tanking, netted them Selwood and Hawkins. Hawthorns several years of virtual tanking gained them Franklin and Roughead. Those two clubs have gained a collective 6 premierships off the back of those poor seasons. Sure they had to get everything else right, which unlike Melbourne and Carlton they were able to do, but those players have been integral to their ultimate success.

Even Melbourne with their awful club management will eventually become good if they keep stockpiling elite talent. If they add McCartin and Brayshaw to an already growing list of elite talent I would wager that in the not too distant future they may jump Hawthorn on the ladder as Hawthorn begin to eventually crumble under the weight of continually drafting older elite players. People can laugh but it will happen. Football empires don't last forever. Everyone thought North (90s) and Essendon and Brisbane (noughties) would never stop winning.

BUT ....

And this is the clincher. Now that free agency has arrived and we have seen the full effects of it in the last 2 years players are increasingly opting for clubs that will gift them finals, grand finals, silverware, hope. That's why they all currently want to play for Hawthorn, Sydney and up until this year, Geelong. The bottom line is, we have to sell hope. Not just to members and supporters but potential free agents. Next year Adam Trelaor and Jeremy Cameron will be looking for a new home. If we finish last they will not be coming to Collingwood. We have to give them a reason to come to us, we have to finish close to or in the eight and be tracking upwards.

"Hope is a dangerous thing, hope can drive a man insane"

Morgan Freeman, The Shawshanck Redemption

Hawkins was Father/Son, but gave you a like for the rest.

I agree to a point. But money gets you players regardless. Tom Boyd is a perfect example of cash over hope.
I think if you sell the concept of underperformance and can grab 2 or 3 key players with this notion, the others players coming too and cash that it can happen.
But you're right, and players chase success for unders too!
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I agree with others that if we finished last than Danger & Cameron wouldn't be keen on coming to us. You suggest we could offer them enough to change their mind. I suspect the $ involved in that would be bigger than Franklin or Boyd. I suspect Sydney have lost Mumford & Malceski because of the amount Tippett & Franklin are on and Swans have COLA. Players on huge money is not the way to sustained success in a salary cap environment.

All that aside, even if injuries meant we finished last in 2015 than getting first draft pick wouldn't make up for it and if we aren't better next year than this year there is no chance we win premiership in 2016. Player development requires a winning culture so that players learn to consistently perform under pressure. If it was as simple as a random game where we could choose last one year and 1st the next then that is better than two middle of the road finishes but AFL and CFC are about so much more than a random game.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Depends where we still and how we're tracking halfway through the season imo. Buit even that can be a tricky one. Halfway through THIS season we were eyeing Top 4. Then look what happened.

 

[suspect footskills]

We should be aiming for top 8 no point finishing last ye have a proud history with only finishing last in 1976 and 1999 we do not want to add to that

Couldn't agree more. In Premierships we're only a one behind the scum and the PED bombers. In the wooden spoon race they are way ahead of us though and we should aim to keep it that way. Our Premiership/wooden spoon ratio is the best in the comp.
I hate losing more than I love winning and I think our clubs proud record in this area should be kept and under no circumstances should we bottom out completely just to get the best kid in the country who may be just that, the best kid. I'd hate to have another spoon next to our name for what could end up another Jack Watts. It's not worth.

 

[bodga22]

To be honest I was hoping we would finish closer to bottom 4 for the last 2 years.
Knowing Daisy was leaving and Moore coming, say we had pick 4 then we couldve gotten pick 5 for Daisy, Moore couldve slipped to our 2nd round making that effectively 4 top 5 picks the last 2 years.
Get some serious talent in and back on the way up in no time.
Atm I think we just going to sit around mid table for a few years, no chance of a premiership for at least 5 years.

 

[legendstatus]

If we stink next year I'd rather finish last and be in a strong position to recruit, pure and simple!

 

[76woodenspooners]

I don't think he was suggesting deliberate tanking rather if the club has a very poor year due to injury and age profile of list which is not out of the realms.

Yes, I took him to mean that too.

Coming last from tanking, or coming last through merit are merely different degrees of shame.

 

[DIDAIC0S]

Yeah, nah....ABSOLUTELY NOT!
Out of curiousity OP, do you go to games?
I personally go to games to see our team win. That excites me, that is my passion. If I had the thought; "I hope we lose", I really can not see myself, dressing myself, my kids; paying for parking, food, beer.....just can not see my passion surviving a loser mentality.
Of course I would love a premiership, but I can not see myself loving to watch a team that does not play their heart out.....maybe just me....

Been a member (legends since inception) from 1990-present on and off for about 15 years mate. Been to 3 losing grand finals, 1 draw and 2 wins.

You're getting a bit off track. I love watching us win, but I can also walk away happy that a developing player had a great game (Langdon Elliott Marley etc)

I personally though would rather come second last and reap some benefit then runners up again.

Never would I hope we lose either. I was throwing forth a scenario and asking the question;
Would one year of severe pain be worth it for the ultimate success? I think so.


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[wednesdaywarrior]

Been a member (legends since inception) from 1990-present on and off for about 15 years mate. Been to 3 losing grand finals, 1 draw and 2 wins.

You're getting a bit off track. I love watching us win, but I can also walk away happy that a developing player had a great game (Langdon Elliott Marley etc)

I personally though would rather come second last and reap some benefit then runners up again.

Never would I hope we lose either. I was throwing forth a scenario and asking the question;
Would one year of severe pain be worth it for the ultimate success? I think so.


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Runner up always totally sucks because you get no joy whatsoever, must spend ,most of the summer in mourning and know that you are 2nd furtherest away from the top end talent and one year closer to ending whatever window you might have earned.

Unless of course you are Sydney COLA and the top end talent just keeps on rolling in regardless. Ahh don't get me started on that again ...

 

[sirene]

Been a member (legends since inception) from 1990-present on and off for about 15 years mate. Been to 3 losing grand finals, 1 draw and 2 wins.

You're getting a bit off track. I love watching us win, but I can also walk away happy that a developing player had a great game (Langdon Elliott Marley etc)

I personally though would rather come second last and reap some benefit then runners up again.

Never would I hope we lose either. I was throwing forth a scenario and asking the question;
Would one year of severe pain be worth it for the ultimate success? I think so.


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I can kind of see what you are saying...kind of....but, I still go to every game hoping for a win...NO MATTER WHAT. That is not just me, that is the Collingwood way; you know?
I do see the good in losing games (sometimes), I absolutely adore and am so excited about watching players develop (one of the reasons I am grieving about a certain new BL player), I have argued with my husband re MW for the last 18 months. He finally agreed with me, while I am wondering where Marleys mongrel went? Off on tangents, I am again.
What I can never enjoy is a losing mentality. I/we walked out of the Queens B'day game this year....it was the worst football we have ever had to endure; my 5 year old son said "Mum, do we really have to watch this?".....Footy has to be fun, exciting, exhilarating....it has to transport us from (in our case) our regular mundane life and give us a couple hours of magic. Well that is what it is for my family, and never does a wooden spoon play into that scenario.

 

[jmac70]

This is the dumbest OP I have ever seen.

 

[HFF]

Finish last and the soul will be ripped out of the club with the mass exodus of players- and that means our champions- guys like Pendles, Cloke etc.

Non-negotiable.

 

[jmac70]

Finish last and the soul will be ripped out of the club with the mass exodus of players- and that means our champions- guys like Pendles, Cloke etc.

Non-negotiable.

Agree. The expectation must be finals.

 

[DIDAIC0S]

This is the dumbest OP I have ever seen.

Cheers!

I've never enjoyed your posts!
And now I'll never see them again!


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[Lefthanded]

Runner up always totally sucks because you get no joy whatsoever, must spend ,most of the summer in mourning and know that you are 2nd furtherest away from the top end talent and one year closer to ending whatever window you might have earned.

Unless of course you are Sydney COLA and the top end talent just keeps on rolling in regardless. Ahh don't get me started on that again ...

So close but yet so far I read the runner's up no joy comment and was thinking except for Swans this year with Heeney and then read on that you went with except for Swans with COLA.

I generally rate your posts so please take this as some harmless fun.

 

[Mudeo]

We want to show something this year to be able to lure a Dangerfield next year. He wont want to come to a team that just finished last, no matter how much money we offer

 

[wednesdaywarrior]

So close but yet so far I read the runner's up no joy comment and was thinking except for Swans this year with Heeney and then read on that you went with except for Swans with COLA.

I generally rate your posts so please take this as some harmless fun.

No probs!

Heeney, COLA, statewide zone with constant flow of top end talent, never getting players suspended. Lovechild, lovechild, lovechild ... Take your pick

 

[DIDAIC0S]

Still the plan. Haven't logged on yet, more to my life than just getting my jollies by trying to hang it on fellow supporters.


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[Demonalke]

 

[Knightmare]

Anyone be happy to finish last next year?
This is assuming we can do it in such a way that it doesn't poison our club or players like our close neighbours down the road.

Realistically if injuries don't go our way similar to 2014 we could finish last without tanking.

So finish last, get Dangerfield through free agency, deal with GWS on Cameron or we pick him up for nothing with first pick in the Preseason draft, and have draft pick 1 in the National draft?

Would you be happy with a year of developing youngsters and pain, if it meant success in 2016?

Pies á la 1977, but one step better?


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The draft and specifically that number one overall pick as much as it gets fans excited is not of great usefulness. It's highly uncommon that that top overall pick is the best in the draft, and as a 22 man game it tends even to only make so much of a difference. Look at Franklin leaving Hawthorn - they win a flag, look at Ablett leaving Geelong - they win a flag. Get the number one overall pick and we're just creating a losing culture, missing out on the opportunity to get our youth some finals experience (where they have the chance to elevate their games) and adding a guy who while almost certainly very good would not make any significant difference to winning.

For those who want the early insight into next years draft. Callum Mills (Sydney academy) right now looks like the best talent in next years draft. So you get that number one overall pick and already you're missing on the guy you really want with that pick. Ben Keays (Brisbane academy) has a shot at being that second best in next years draft as an equally dominant talent.
Like pick 5 this year, pick 1 next year while it looks like it will be a pretty good draft is not a pick in our situation we would ideally as a team looking to get better want.
Darcy Parish (VIC - midfielder) is probably that eventual number one overall selection with Mills unavailable and he is good, but even so I'd be ok with roughly pick 8 or whatever we end up with next year with a pretty even and deep midfield group to be available.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Players on huge money is not the way to sustained success in a salary cap environment.

This

Back in 2010 we had no recognised superstars (back then) - we were simply a strong well balanced team.

 

[jmac70]

This

Back in 2010 we had no recognised superstars (back then) - we were simply a strong well balanced team.

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