There is a possibility Hird can't be held responsible

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FuManchu said:
Probably just a refinement. But you cling to that hope of a blunder. After all, you've been right with the outcome of the Federal court hearing...... oh!!
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Federal Court hearing?
what did I have to say about that?
I said Essendon has a right to pursue it and that they had good grounds to pursue it
they lost it, but so what, these sorts of things are a toss of a coin
 
The GG said:
Federal Court hearing?
what did I have to say about that?
I said Essendon has a right to pursue it and that they had good grounds to pursue it
they lost it, but so what, these sorts of things are a toss of a coin
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They are hardly a toss of the coin a lot of the time, you are either right, or you are wrong.

Now, these grounds, you were so sure of, they proved to be wrong (thus far)?
 
Ancient Tiger said:
He is guilty of bringing his club to its knees with the greatest scandal in AFL history! FFS coaches have been sacked for far far less.
He called the shots here so he must take responsibility. Even if it was thymomodulin, he has allowed the injection of healthy individuals with a drug that has not even got TGA approval in this country and has previously only been used for AIDS and cancer patients overseas. He has used the players as guinea pigs with AOD9604, a drug that had not been approved for therapeutic use anywhere in the world.
And this is even before us talking about the possibility that they may have received PEDs.

My goodness. Does Mr James Albert Hird have to physically kill somebody before some finally admit he needs to be sacked? Just open your eyes to what has actually happened here!!!!!!

No wonder people are bewildered at his followers!
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Problem is , I don't know what has actually happened here!!!! and only heresay tells me what your saying is right. Even you don't know.
And by the way, if they are all guilty throw the book at them.

I'm talking about how this whole crappy affair has been conducted , that's all I've ever said.
But according to you he is guilty now and should be sacked now , how come, he's coaching now , he's served time for something, so do we penalise him/them twice?
 

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JoondalupJ said:
Problem is , I don't know what has actually happened here!!!! and only heresay tells me what your saying is right. Even you don't know.
And by the way, if they are all guilty throw the book at them.

I'm talking about how this whole crappy affair has been conducted , that's all I've ever said.
But according to you he is guilty now and should be sacked now , how come, he's coaching now , he's served time for something, so do we penalise him/them twice?
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What part is hearsay? We know he was coach when this happened. We know from texts he knew about the program. We know drugs were injected into the players. At best they are drugs that were not TGA approved and so needed dodgy scripts to administer. One we know was not approved for human therapeutic usage anywhere in the world. It had GRAS status but that is not relevant to injectable drugs, only to food additives and cosmetics. At worst the thymosin was a banned drug.
You say he did time. If you call being sent to the south of France on a 12 month sabbatical with your entire years wage paid up front as punishment, I'd like to know what you regard as a reward!!!!!
 
Ancient Tiger said:
What part is hearsay? We know he was coach when this happened. We know from texts he knew about the program. We know drugs were injected into the players. At best they are drugs that were not TGA approved and so needed dodgy scripts to administer. One we know was not approved for human therapeutic usage anywhere in the world. It had GRAS status but that is not relevant to injectable drugs, only to food additives and cosmetics. At worst the thymosin was a banned drug.
You say he did time. If you call being sent to the south of France on a 12 month sabbatical with your entire years wage paid up front as punishment, I'd like to know what you regard as a reward!!!!!
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Once again why , how'd he wangle that deal, if it was a deal. And hearsay, I guess I mean nothing is proven in a fair way when discussing the players who may or may not have taken anything or thought it was not dangerous or were told it was OK how do we charge people who don't know what they did wrong .
There is 34 of them and whether the stories about these drugs, supplements, what ever the hell they were are true, I and everyone else unless your privy to the actual facts, then I haven't seen anything but Hird get told he is not allowed to coach for a year, why would he get a set up whereby he got paid but still suffered the crap to his reputation and couldn't coach, how'd that come about. I didn't say it was a reward I said it was a penalty. Maybe Essendon legally couldn't not pay him. So he's been penalised whether you think so or not.

So for me the players are the meat in the sandwich, and they are considered guilty already.
That is the case because everyone want's Hird murdered, and thinks he and the players all were involved in drug cheating, read big footy for a bit.

Some want the Essendon club ruined.
 
JoondalupJ said:
Once again why , how'd he wangle that deal, if it was a deal. And hearsay, I guess I mean nothing is proven in a fair way when discussing the players who may or may not have taken anything or thought it was not dangerous or were told it was OK how do we charge people who don't know what they did wrong .
There is 34 of them and whether the stories about these drugs, supplements, what ever the hell they were are true, I and everyone else unless your privy to the actual facts, then I haven't seen anything but Hird get told he is not allowed to coach for a year, why would he get a set up whereby he got paid but still suffered the crap to his reputation and couldn't coach, how'd that come about. I didn't say it was a reward I said it was a penalty. Maybe Essendon legally couldn't not pay him. So he's been penalised whether you think so or not.

So for me the players are the meat in the sandwich, and they are considered guilty already.
That is the case because everyone want's Hird murdered, and thinks he and the players all were involved in drug cheating, read big footy for a bit.

Some want the Essendon club ruined.
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I'm exhausted just reading that.
 
From what I've gathered, the majority feel is if Hird is the overlord of a doping regime, then people want him gone. Something about football fans not being ready for leaders of men to abuse the trust placed in them. See their players as things, not people.
 
armpit said:
From what I've gathered, the majority feel is if Hird is the overlord of a doping regime, then people want him gone. Something about football fans not being ready for leaders of men to abuse the trust placed in them. See their players as things, not people.
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You may be so correct. I'll be the bunny after all this is finalised , I know, and I am probably wrong in lots of assumptions I've made too.
I see it as some people persecuted before the fact. Probably why I get so angry when lots out there just come out with comments as if its cut and dried and over, and everyone is guilty. Maybe??

I'd like to see natural justice that's all.

Right from the beginning Danks has said nothing, immediately everyone or most assume that he's the dirty doctor and Essendon players are all cheats and Hird is responsible.

I just see things in the real light of day as lets prove all this then we can really hammer the guilty ones.

But everyone else seems to think that because someone is charged or is accused whether in reality or the media that they are some kind of Dracula destroying their club. AND GUILTY ALREADY!

Why would James Hird want to destroy his club. People say he is up his own backside , I never saw him that way.
I always thought him humble and trustworthy , so if this goes against him I'll be surprised.

If big footy people (and I know you people on BF know your football) are correct and Hird is found to be a disloyal illegal drug promoting coach so be it.

If his team is crucified because they are all as guilty as hell of taking performance enhancing drugs and knew it , then Essendon begins again from scratch. That 'll be good for the fan base, NOT! They will virtually be dead.

Proving absolutely the guilt is going to be very hard. Even if ASADA have got real bad news for Essendon as a whole on paper , they still have to prove each individual guilty .

I think that is nearly impossible . But I bet they come to some arrangement. Lastly THEY'VE TAKEN TOO BLOODY LONG!
 

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JoondalupJ said:
You may be so correct. I'll be the bunny after all this is finalised , I know, and I am probably wrong in lots of assumptions I've made too.
I see it as some people persecuted before the fact. Probably why I get so angry when lots out there just come out with comments as if its cut and dried and over, and everyone is guilty. Maybe??

I'd like to see natural justice that's all.

Right from the beginning Danks has said nothing, immediately everyone or most assume that he's the dirty doctor and Essendon players are all cheats and Hird is responsible.

I just see things in the real light of day as lets prove all this then we can really hammer the guilty ones.

But everyone else seems to think that because someone is charged or is accused whether in reality or the media that they are some kind of Dracula destroying their club. AND GUILTY ALREADY!

Why would James Hird want to destroy his club. People say he is up his own backside , I never saw him that way.
I always thought him humble and trustworthy , so if this goes against him I'll be surprised.

If big footy people (and I know you people on BF know your football) are correct and Hird is found to be a disloyal illegal drug promoting coach so be it.

If his team is crucified because they are all as guilty as hell of taking performance enhancing drugs and knew it , then Essendon begins again from scratch. That 'll be good for the fan base, NOT! They will virtually be dead.

Proving absolutely the guilt is going to be very hard. Even if ASADA have got real bad news for Essendon as a whole on paper , they still have to prove each individual guilty .

I think that is nearly impossible . But I bet they come to some arrangement. Lastly THEY'VE TAKEN TOO BLOODY LONG!
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If you're going to post here, then at least get some sort of grasp of the backstory and the facts people are talking about.

This rubbish about people making up their mind that Hird is guilty just because he's been "charged" with something -which he hasn't - is just that, rubbish.

James Hird was the head coach of the Essendon football club when an injection regime put together by Hird and his hand picked sports scientist was implemented which is now under investigation.

That's the basics for you to consider. That alone is enough for a lot of people to say " Hird held a position of responsibility, he should stand down, or be stood down".

I've not even touched on his prior relationship with the convicted drug trafficker who supplied Dank.
The players who say that Hird told them the injections were all good and safe.
The queries around how exactly he intended for Dank to combat clubs he thought were on HGH if he was so opposed to drugs.
That he was self injecting drugs.
That the Weapon states that Hird knew all about what the program was about.

So please, if you're going to post here, at least lets some of this stuff above sink in as to why posters want Hird to answer a tonne of questions, or indeed want him removed from the game.
 
JoondalupJ said:
I'd like to see natural justice that's all.

Lastly THEY'VE TAKEN TOO BLOODY LONG!
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I'd like to just counter these two points you've made,because the rest of what you've written is merely uninformed nonsense.
Basically your first point denies the second,simples!
 
For me it's simple, and that's that James Hird failed, and failed badly, in his Duty of Care.
Now even if, and that's an if I don't believe, he had no idea what Dank and Robinson were doing to the players under his care, then that's still a massive failure of his Duty of Care and on that basis alone he should have been shown the door.
 
Echols said:
If you're going to post here, then at least get some sort of grasp of the backstory and the facts people are talking about.

This rubbish about people making up their mind that Hird is guilty just because he's been "charged" with something -which he hasn't - is just that, rubbish.

James Hird was the head coach of the Essendon football club when an injection regime put together by Hird and his hand picked sports scientist was implemented which is now under investigation.

That's the basics for you to consider. That alone is enough for a lot of people to say " Hird held a position of responsibility, he should stand down, or be stood down".

I've not even touched on his prior relationship with the convicted drug trafficker who supplied Dank.
The players who say that Hird told them the injections were all good and safe.
The queries around how exactly he intended for Dank to combat clubs he thought were on HGH if he was so opposed to drugs.
That he was self injecting drugs.
That the Weapon states that Hird knew all about what the program was about.

So please, if you're going to post here, at least lets some of this stuff above sink in as to why posters want Hird to answer a tonne of questions, or indeed want him removed from the game.
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Exactly , but all you and I know is that he was given a very shonky strange year off as a penalty. And you can rave about charges and what ever

But let this sink into your head, there is nothing exact known about anything , but you all want Hird to be removed , the reason for that is not proven.
That is simple fact.

What I am saying is everyone assumes that what they want to think or believe is absolute, its not.

Not until the WHOLE truth comes out.

But stop picking guilty parties. What Hird knew or didn't know or thought or didn't think you nor ASADA nor the AFL know.

If they did and it was as bad as you want it to be , then they would have run him out of the job forever.

But look there are more guilty parties in this yet, so you'll get your "I told you so " time.

Don't get angry , love a good argument!
 
JoondalupJ said:
Exactly , but all you and I know is that he was given a very shonky strange year off as a penalty. And you can rave about charges and what ever

But let this sink into your head, there is nothing exact known about anything , but you all want Hird to be removed , the reason for that is not proven.
That is simple fact.

What I am saying is everyone assumes that what they want to think or believe is absolute, its not.

Not until the WHOLE truth comes out.

But stop picking guilty parties. What Hird knew or didn't know or thought or didn't think you nor ASADA nor the AFL know.

If they did and it was as bad as you want it to be , then they would have run him out of the job forever.

But look there are more guilty parties in this yet, so you'll get your "I told you so " time.

Don't get angry , love a good argument!
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Ok, you clearly didn't read my post.
 
Echols said:
Ok, you clearly didn't read my post.
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Oh man , who cares , we'll see soon, I've posted about fifty million opinions on this. I have never been able to understand why people see guilt in the first instance , what ever degree of guilt they see , without any reason they still see the accused party as guilty. Before (and I'll put it this way) they see ALL the facts.
But this goes with everything , stuff footy , got to be guilty , just gotts!

So stuff Hird and Essendon and what ever happens, we'll all know soon..

I suppose??
 
JoondalupJ said:
Oh man , who cares , we'll see soon, I've posted about fifty million opinions on this. I have never been able to understand why people see guilt in the first instance , what ever degree of guilt they see , without any reason they still see the accused party as guilty. Before (and I'll put it this way) they see ALL the facts.
But this goes with everything , stuff footy , got to be guilty , just gotts!

So stuff Hird and Essendon and what ever happens, we'll all know soon..

I suppose??
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Are you drunk?
 
JoondalupJ said:
Oh man , who cares , we'll see soon, I've posted about fifty million opinions on this. I have never been able to understand why people see guilt in the first instance , what ever degree of guilt they see , without any reason they still see the accused party as guilty. Before (and I'll put it this way) they see ALL the facts.
But this goes with everything , stuff footy , got to be guilty , just gotts!

So stuff Hird and Essendon and what ever happens, we'll all know soon..

I suppose??
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Can you see the mess Essendon has been in?
Do you know who was coach when this mess was instigated?
It's not always just about guilt. Sometimes it's about taking responsibility for what's happened.

Is that too difficult for you to understand?
 
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