Australian ODI Squad - 2014/15

[Kram]

Khawaja is so overrated.

 

[PaddyO]

So we can draw a line through those five players?

Hughes not in the mix. Bailey and Finch dropped. Clarke and Watson injured. It sounds like there will be half a dozen guys without central contracts going to the World Cup.

Or are you just flying kites?

Here's a classic example of your strawman s**t. I say I don't rate Hughes, Bailey and Finch have been out of form (which they have) and Watson and Clarke are injury prone (which they are). Meaning it's very possible one or more of these guys might not make the WC squad or might be injured/dropped over summer

You say "It sounds like there will be half a dozen guys without central contracts going to the World Cup".

Lol

 

[Ian Dargie]

IDGAF what it "strikes you as". I gave a reason for my opinion on Khawaja. Which you dismiss but keep on ranting on with the same strawman s**t.

Again, it's not a strawman. It's a direct quote of your comments a few weeks ago.

The fact you call it a strawman only indicates how desperate you are to distance yourself from those comments.

I would not consider Khawaja for the Australian ODI side because of his limitations against an elite attack to rotate the strike in the middle overs (a failing he shares with Hughes).

You said that if a player was in cracking form, the selectors would give him an opportunity.

You didn't say 'unless it's Khawaja or someone else I don't rate'.

Here's a classic example of your strawman s**t. I say I don't rate Hughes, Bailey and Finch have been out of form (which they have) and Watson and Clarke are injury prone (which they are). Meaning it's very possible one or more of these guys might not make the WC squad or might be injured/dropped over summer

You say "It sounds like there will be half a dozen guys without central contracts going to the World Cup".

Merely pointing out that you are throwing up several different hypotheticals to support a fanciful argument.

You are exaggerating the question marks over these players. Because that's the only way you can continue to argue that White or Burns or Henriques or Ferguson or whoever else you fancy this week will come from the clouds and storm into the World Cup squad.

 

[PaddyO]

You didn't also say 'unless it's Khawaja or someone else I don't rate'.

.

Lol. You tool. So everyone who posts something on the forum has to provide absolute clarification of what they say?

 

[Ian Dargie]

Lol. You tool. So everyone who posts something on the forum has to provide absolute clarification of what they say?

So you accept it's not a strawman? The several posts in which you insisted it was a strawman were complete bullshit. Agreed?

You did in fact say that if a batsman was in cracking form, the selectors would give them an opportunity. But we should apparently infer some hidden nuance in your blanket statement i.e. if Khawaja is that batsman in form, it doesn't count.

I just find it odd that you can make the argument that there are places still up for grabs. But then, when a batsman actually turns up and makes a shitload of runs, you dismiss him while still banging on about guys performing far less convincingly.

By the way, that's a pretty girlie gif to include. Was it a choice between that and something from High School Musical?

 

[PaddyO]

So you accept it's not a strawman? The several posts in which you insisted it was a strawman were complete bullshit. Agreed?

You did in fact say that if a batsman was in cracking form, the selectors would give them an opportunity. But we should apparently infer some hidden nuance in your blanket statement i.e. if Khawaja is that batsman in form, it doesn't count.

I just find it odd that you can make the argument that there are places still up for grabs. But then, when a batsman actually turns up and makes a shitload of runs, you dismiss him while still banging on about guys performing far less convincingly.

By the way, that's a pretty girlie gif to include. Was it a choice between that and something from High School Musical?

 

[peternorth]

when's footy season start?

 

[Hellgood]

I would also say no to Khawaja being included.

It's a fairly crowded situation as it is with guys who have been considered incumbents in Watson and Marsh on the road back from injury and a guy who offers a different skill set in White also in such good form. Finch has started to come good in international limited overs cricket justifying the faith shown in him over a long stretch and the selection panel have made no secret of how keen they are to include Warner. Bailey has had a bad run of it of late, but it was only a year ago he was essentially in beast mode unable to do any wrong. Even a selection panel favourite in Smith has found it extremely challenging to find a spot in the middle order but now looks to be a lock for a spot in the batting order. When you have people questioning where Michael Clarke sits in all of this you know things are looking very strong going into the World Cup.

 

[Power Raid]

Again, it's not a strawman. It's a direct quote of your comments a few weeks ago.

The fact you call it a strawman only indicates how desperate you are to distance yourself from those comments.

You said that if a player was in cracking form, the selectors would give him an opportunity.

You didn't say 'unless it's Khawaja or someone else I don't rate'.

Merely pointing out that you are throwing up several different hypotheticals to support a fanciful argument.

You are exaggerating the question marks over these players. Because that's the only way you can continue to argue that White or Burns or Henriques or Ferguson or whoever else you fancy this week will come from the clouds and storm into the World Cup squad.

you make this forum so enjoyable.

thanks for your contribution!

 

[The_Reaper]

TE]

I would also say no to Khawaja being included.

It's a fairly crowded situation as it is with guys who have been considered incumbents in Watson and Marsh on the road back from injury and a guy who offers a different skill set in White also in such good form. Finch has started to come good in international limited overs cricket justifying the faith shown in him over a long stretch and the selection panel have made no secret of how keen they are to include Warner. Bailey has had a bad run of it of late, but it was only a year ago he was essentially in beast mode unable to do any wrong. Even a selection panel favourite in Smith has found it extremely challenging to find a spot in the middle order but now looks to be a lock for a spot in the batting order. When you have people questioning where Michael Clarke sits in all of this you know things are looking very strong going into the World Cup.

Only idiots question Clarke's spot

 

[Ian Dargie]

you make this forum so enjoyable.

thanks for your contribution!

Would you pick Khawaja?

Like you said, the summer will bring opportunities for those that can stand up.

Isn't Khawaja a prime example?

 

[Power Raid]

Would you pick Khawaja?

Isn't he a prime example of a player in form forcing his way into the side?

he probably would not be my first choice but the australian side (all formats) is not cemented in, which creates opportunities for fringe players evidenced by marsh and okeefe selection in the test side.

I don't see this as a negative, rather a positive as we are actively trying to improve our side through competitive tension and rewarding players performing at lower ranks.

 

[Ian Dargie]

I would also say no to Khawaja being included.

It's a fairly crowded situation as it is with guys who have been considered incumbents in Watson and Marsh on the road back from injury and a guy who offers a different skill set in White also in such good form. Finch has started to come good in international limited overs cricket justifying the faith shown in him over a long stretch and the selection panel have made no secret of how keen they are to include Warner. Bailey has had a bad run of it of late, but it was only a year ago he was essentially in beast mode unable to do any wrong. Even a selection panel favourite in Smith has found it extremely challenging to find a spot in the middle order but now looks to be a lock for a spot in the batting order. When you have people questioning where Michael Clarke sits in all of this you know things are looking very strong going into the World Cup.

Are you saying it's unlikely major changes will be made so close to a World Cup?

 

[Ian Dargie]

he probably would not be my first choice but the australian side (all formats) is not cemented in, which creates opportunities for fringe players evidenced by marsh and okeefe selection in the test side.

Who would be your first choice?

If it's not Khawaja, who is in great form and also has an outstanding ODD record, you must have a pretty compelling alternative.

I don't see this as a negative, rather a positive as we are actively trying to improve our side through competitive tension and rewarding players performing at lower ranks.

Hang on. You talk about "rewarding players performing at lower ranks" but don't want Khawaja, who's doing exactly that. What's that about?

You're saying one thing but when confronted with a specific case, you do a complete backflip.

We play the Saffas in the first of five ODIs on Nov 14. Who would be in your squad?

I don't think there will be many surprises. But you talk about rewarding players who are performing at lower levels and there being opportunities for players who step up.

So which players should be 'rewarded', if not Khawaja?

 

[The_Reaper]

Are you saying it's unlikely major changes will be made so close to a World Cup?

I'd say that the bowling lineup is still open to change. We know what batsman in line but Richardson and Abbott are hardly secure and McKay is now out of the reckoning.

 

[Ian Dargie]

I'd say that the bowling lineup is still open to change. We know what batsman in line but Richardson and Abbott are hardly secure and McKay is now out of the reckoning.

Surely it's a case of shuffling the cards already in front of us. Some combination of Johnson, Starc, Harris, Coulter-Nile and Richardson, with support from 1-2 all-rounders?

I guess we're close enough to the next ODI series to start talking about potential squads.

We have five matches against the Saffas starting on Nov 14. Who would you have?

 

[western royboy]

Cricket Selectors are a bit like Frank Constanza's lawyer - "they don't follow the trends".

For those of you that think Khawaja is close based upon his golden run of form of recent times, I would suggest to you that he is not. Player that have had opportunities previously and have failed to grasp them or fallen out of favour, tend to be marked harder than those who have unblemished records. Last Season Cameron White was the player of the Tournament in the Ryobi, didn't play much for Australia that I can recall. He is closer to playing again for Australia after a solid season rather than a flash in the pan. Khawaja needs to do similar things if he wishes to play for Australia again. That his former No.1 urger is now the coach doesn't bode well, he had an opportunity, didn't take it is perceived as being a bit lazy and thus he takes his position at the end of the queue.

Form is one thing, but consistency and work ethic and the ability to fit into the team are all very much factors when selecting teams.

 

[The_Reaper]

Surely it's a case of shuffling the cards already in front of us. Some combination of Johnson, Starc, Harris, Coulter-Nile and Richardson, with support from 1-2 all-rounders?

I guess we're close enough to the next ODI series to start talking about potential squads.

We have five matches against the Saffas starting on Nov 14. Who would you have?

At this point I'd consider resting Johnson - we know what he provides and playing Starc, Richardson and Coulter-Nile.
The Richardson experiment is worth continuing for now.

He's touted as a good death bowler which wasn't really tested against Pakistan.

 

[Power Raid]

Who would be your first choice?

If it's not Khawaja, who is in great form and also has an outstanding ODD record, you must have a pretty compelling alternative.

Hang on. You talk about "rewarding players performing at lower ranks" but don't want Khawaja, who's doing exactly that. What's that about?

You're saying one thing but when confronted with a specific case, you do a complete backflip.

We play the Saffas in the first of five ODIs on Nov 14. Who would be in your squad?

I don't think there will be many surprises. But you talk about rewarding players who are performing at lower levels and there being opportunities for players who step up.

So which players should be 'rewarded', if not Khawaja?

your such an excitable lad that you can't seem to focus for 5 minutes before you enter another rant.

khawaja has a good record in lower levels but failed to go on with it a higher levels of competition. it is this reason alone he wouldn't be my first choice but who knows, given another chance he may excel.

 

[The_Reaper]

The thing with Khawaja is that he has literally done nothing at international level. His top score is in the 60s and in every innings he was slow and struggled to score.

Sure Hughes and Marsh have also failed so far but at least they've actually shown some signs of being able to do something at higher levels.

 

[Hellgood]

Marsh certainly hasn't failed so far. He has a very strong record in ODI's.

 

[The_Reaper]

Marsh certainly hasn't failed so far. He has a very strong record in ODI's.

Talking about tests but that further supports the point that both Marsh and Hughes have shown at some point that they can succeed at international level and Khawaja has not.

 

[Ian Dargie]

For those of you that think Khawaja is close based upon his golden run of form of recent times, I would suggest to you that he is not.

That's fascinating but I would suggest to you that you have misread the conversation.

I expect it will be more or less a closed shop until after the World Cup.

Others, however, have insisted that the stage is set for new players to emerge this summer and that any player in form could leapfrog into that Australian side. Seriously. Some people said that. Even though there are only 12 ODIs before the World Cup.

I am now merely offering Khawaja as a case study. He's in a rich vein of form but is he likely to be picked? Probably not, thereby indicating that their original argument was bogus. Their tap dance to avoid admitting this amuses me.

Player that have had opportunities previously and have failed to grasp them or fallen out of favour, tend to be marked harder than those who have unblemished records.

I would suggest to you that this is jarringly ahistorical.

There's a long list of players who were tried, dropped, then recalled. Hayden, Langer, Martyn back in the day. Clarke at one point. More recently, look at Smith, Warner and Shaun Marsh. So I would suggest to you that you don't have to look too hard to find examples to counter your above statement. I'm sure you know this already. In light of that, I would suggest to you that it's not a very sensible thing to say.

Last Season Cameron White was the player of the Tournament in the Ryobi, didn't play much for Australia that I can recall. He is closer to playing again for Australia after a solid season rather than a flash in the pan. Khawaja needs to do similar things if he wishes to play for Australia again.

Again, I would suggest to you that you've gone off half-cocked without checking the record.

Khawaja was the second-highest run-scorer in last season's Ryobi Cup. Before talking about White, you should acknowledge that Khawaja scored more runs. And he's been the outstanding batsman of this season's tournament so far. And his overall record is excellent: 2000-plus runs at 46. That's an upgrade on what Warner or Shaun Marsh had done domestically before being selected in the ODI side. It's a million miles more than what Steve Smith did to earn the initial call-up or his recall. Smith did bugger-all in ODDs. So tell us again how players who are tried and fail are marked harder. The list of exceptions is so long that you have to work overtime to ignore it.

Again, I don't think Khawaja will be selected anytime soon. I think the squad for the World Cup has basically been picked, particularly when it comes to the top seven and back-ups. Give or take. A few guys are jostling for those last spots.

But for those bleating about bolters storming into the side in the 12 ODIs left before the World Cup, Khawaja should be top of their list. The reality, though, is that when asked about Khawaja, they spin their wheels and invent reasons why his form doesn't count, giving the lie to their initial argument about spots being up for grabs. I like watching them abandon that position while insisting they're doing no such thing.

That his former No.1 urger is now the coach doesn't bode well, he had an opportunity, didn't take it is perceived as being a bit lazy and thus he takes his position at the end of the queue.

Zero substance.

Form is one thing, but consistency and work ethic and the ability to fit into the team are all very much factors when selecting teams.

I would suggest to you that this is a load of horseshit.

Form is one thing? What the hell does that mean? Is that a back-door way of minimising the fact he's the best-performed ODD batsman of the past season-and-a-half?

 

[Ian Dargie]

your such an excitable lad that you can't seem to focus for 5 minutes before you enter another rant.

I just want to know who would be top of your list.

You said that there is the opportunity for other players to vault into the Australian side. Who is making a better case than Khawaja?

Who would be in your squad to face the Saffas? Will there be opportunities for players who can stand up?

khawaja has a good record in lower levels but failed to go on with it a higher levels of competition. it is this reason alone he wouldn't be my first choice but who knows, given another chance he may excel.

Again, who would be your first choice?

You keep saying it's not Khawaja. That's fine. But tell us who is. They must have scored a lot of runs.

As for Khawaja 'failing to go on with it at higher levels', there's a long list of guys who didn't immediately click when first picked for Australia.

According to your logic, should Steve Smith have been recalled?

After 22 ODI innings, Smith averaged 21. He was dropped, then did bugger-all domestically but is now back in the mix, even with his modest ODD record. What do you think of that?

Khawaja, on other other hand, played three matches and failed. He was also dropped but has now been the best-performed ODD batsman of the past 18 months and has an ODD average of 46. But, according to you, that doesn't matter and he shouldn't get another go.

Surely even you could not fail to spot the glaring inconsistency here.

 

[Power Raid]

I just want to know who would be top of your list.

You said that there is the opportunity for other players to vault into the Australian side. Who is making a better case than Khawaja?

Who would be in your squad to face the Saffas? Will there be opportunities for players who can stand up?

Again, who would be your first choice?

You keep saying it's not Khawaja. That's fine. But tell us who is. They must have scored a lot of runs.

As for Khawaja 'failing to go on with it at higher levels', there's a long list of guys who didn't immediately click when first picked for Australia.

According to your logic, should Steve Smith have been recalled?

After 22 ODI innings, Smith averaged 21. He was dropped, then did bugger-all domestically but is now back in the mix, even with his modest ODD record. What do you think of that?

Khawaja, on other other hand, played three matches and failed. He was also dropped but has now been the best-performed ODD batsman of the past 18 months and has an ODD average of 46. But, according to you, that doesn't matter and he shouldn't get another go.

Surely even you could not fail to spot the glaring inconsistency here.

I think you have answered my previous point that there are opportunities for those on the fringe which has also been attested to by the selection of marsh and okeefe in the test side.


take a deep breath, sip some tea and enjoy bf.