Collingwood Almanac 2014

[TradeDraft]

Lewis Johnston I'd take. Funnily enough he was used from Sydney to secure Tony Armstrong.

Shaun Mckernan has had opportunity and didn't take it with both hands. Pass.

Mitch Robinson, we don't need another player who can't kick. Also wouldn't fit our culture.

Mitch Brown I'd take.

Taylor Hunt, maybe. We have allot of triers on our team.

Jack Hutchins could be a good third tall defender. Maybe.

Derick Wangeneen I'd take.

Clint Jones maybe.

I too would look at Johnston as he is a Great Kick at Goal and was a Pie Fan Growing up. Remember in 08 in his Draft Profile saying Cloke was his Favourite Player.

Wangeneen be intresting. Rather him then Jeff Garlett

 

[Sultan]

Whilst I agree with KM's comment that Aish could just be looking to maximise his value with a strong 2nd season it seems strange to delay until pre season - can't see what would have changed by then so I expect the 'at least' part to come into play and won't feel sorry for Lions if they get nervous. Hope Aish drags it out as long as possible whichever way he goes.

First thing I thought when I read the news that he would want to see where he fit in a team that has Beams and Christensen added to it. He would have a fair idea after their pre-season.

 

[Knightmare]

Hi Knightmare.

Interestingly Langford played the season as a 17 year old and doesn't turn 18 until December so he's one of the youngest in this draft.

He's approximately 8 months younger than Laverde.

Could he be the Hine special at 5?

P.S-What is the cut off date for eligibility for this seasons draft?

I like Langford and am aware that he is a December birthday. Duggan who is another we may consider similarly is also a December birthday. Langford is another tall type and a terrific mover, strong mark overhead. Probably not a midfielder but who knows what happens as a young one with another year of development.

I've got Langford on my shortlist as I do with Laverde. Laverde is the more damaging of the two and the more evasive but for me they're in the same conversation and two of those potential selections at 5 if that's a route we want to go.

The cut off date is the new year (Dec 31 is the last day).

Hey KM, any nuggets of gold in the delisted players?

There is occasionally some players that are worth the risk post delisting that fill needs, provides depth or simply deserve a chance and that are going to be superior options to draftees. In our case experienced bodies can help.

Any of these names worth considering as rookies or delisted free agent additions:

1. Lewis Johnston - I am a fan of this guy, only 23, squeezed out of Adel due to forward depth plus some persistent injuries. One of the better kicks in the AFL. I personally think he can be damaging played back instead of forward in a Josh Drummond type role. Must pass a medical though.

2. Shaun McKernan - not sure what happened to him as he was promising, never had an opportunity. Not sure on him, purely depth player.

3. Mitch Robinson - I am employing the no DK rule here. However, can be an impact player if we had balls to pick him. Unfortunately too much baggage, he is really on the nose and suspect there is more to his behaviour than the public knows.

4. Josh Simpson - Only putting up as he was a fan fave in his draft year, wasted talent along the lines of Dayle Garlett. A flight risk, but undeniable talent...maybe needs years in the WAFL to sort himself.

5. Mitch Brown - Keen on peoples thoughts on him. He has some great size & was surprised he was delisted by the Cats but they
added Stanley, Clark and have Vardy returning so probably too many competing talls, also he had injury woes. I think he is a great option for us as I am always concerned what we would do should the durable Cloke go down. This guy can play a key position role, dominant in VFL and deserves an AFL spot somewhere IMO.

6. Taylor Hunt - A very average player but a trier and has potential to tag effectively which is relevant now Caff is hurt. Young enough to improve.

7. Jack Hutchins - a squeezed out Sun who is an effective defender, probably not right for our list given depth here.

8. Derick Wanganeen - never going to make the Hawks best 22 as they are full of quick talented smalls. The games I have seen of him he was very elusive, very handy and fits a list need. I had Jeff Garlett pencilled to that role but I think it still needs filling and not sure the draft will do it for us. The Hawks tried to turn him into a defender but he is clearly to me a small forward. His defensive pressure is good and is very much a one touch player.

9. Clint Jones - as a tagger perhaps, adds experienced body

Out of those I would seriously consider Johnston (after Bucks gets the inside word from old mate Sando), Mitch Brown and Wanganeen.

Of those I look at Mitch Robinson and see him as a best 22 player on pretty much any team. I'm surprised no one traded for him, even for a late/unused pick. Not that I necessarily want him at Collingwood.

Clinton Jones if we were a contending team and wanting a tagger. Sure. He can still play. But in our situation wanting to get games into our younger mids and probably for me anyway missing the 8 again he isn't someone I'd go after.

The others are otherwise depth.

Josh Simpson would be a terrific list fit with his outside pace but you'd only take him if the club were convinced he would demonstrate the professionalism required, which he has shown no indication of doing.

Wanganeen through the preseason and first couple of months player pretty well but after that his form dropped away. I see no best 22 spot for him.

Hutchins is a plausible component to a back half and could be a role player, but we have better long term options.

Taylor Hunt is useful depth but useful for us as while quick, a poor kick which is more of what we don't need.

Shaun McKernan has failed to improve and Adelaide with their league best key position development if they can't get the most out of him I'm not interested. For me he is a state leaguer and that's all.

Johnston is capable depth. Can play a role forward or back but you pick him up knowing he is depth.

Brown lacks durability and has failed to improve. He hasn't played to an adequate standard to be reliable at AFL standard. Good VFL recruit for a team but not someone who I'd be looking to give another opportunity to.

 

[PieMan!]

G,Day knightmare, what do you think of kyle hardingham, would he fit in our side or pass?

 

[Knightmare]

G,Day knightmare, what do you think of kyle hardingham, would he fit in our side or pass?

Reasonable depth and can play in a back half but I'd pass.

We have depth. We now need to look to improve our best 22 and find players who can be top 10 on list players - which is more what we need to elevate our team.

 

[4#Didak#4]

G,Day knightmare, what do you think of kyle hardingham, would he fit in our side or pass?

Hardingham is an interesting one who I think slipped out of favour at Essendon. I think he can make a really capable defender in the Toovey mould as he is good overhead, has a good leap and closing speed. Not sure he fits our side, but a side like Melbourne should look at him.

Another who is moving on from the Bombers is Leroy Jetta. He is another who has fallen out of favour and I think he would benefit from a change of scenery and a less toxic environment.

I think Jetta should be looked at to play that small forward role. I don't think he hits the scoreboard as much as a guy with that talent should. However his defensive pressure (at least early in his career) was fantastic and that seems to be what Bucks rates highly. Is he an upgrade on Blair as a small forward is the question to ask. I am desperate for someone to challenge as a small forward in our best 22 and that will only come from outside talent IMO. Having missed Jeff Garlett, I think Jetta and Wanganeen are feasible options given they will cost us nothing.

 

[4#Didak#4]

Reasonable depth and can play in a back half but I'd pass.

We have depth. We now need to look to improve our best 22 and find players who can be top 10 on list players - which is more what we need to elevate our team.

I see your point there KM, but at this stage of the year it is about depth players. You are going to struggle to find a top 10 list player post trade period. Our depth has been exposed at times mainly thru a freak run of injuries, but we need to do all we can to strengthen the squad not just the 22, you are only as good as your weakest player.

Our age profile is very lopsided now and I can't see us adding anyone from the draft past the top 30 pick that will significantly add to the squad let alone the best 22. At the same time there is limited suitable options out there outside the draft, but nonetheless some that fit our needs. I would like us find a ready to play small forward and a ready to play utility type player. That's not to say they will start best 22, but they will be capable to step up when the need arises or even better earn a place in the 22.

 

[Lefthanded]

I see your point there KM, but at this stage of the year it is about depth players. You are going to struggle to find a top 10 list player post trade period. Our depth has been exposed at times mainly thru a freak run of injuries, but we need to do all we can to strengthen the squad not just the 22, you are only as good as your weakest player.

Our age profile is very lopsided now and I can't see us adding anyone from the draft past the top 30 pick that will significantly add to the squad let alone the best 22. At the same time there is limited suitable options out there outside the draft, but nonetheless some that fit our needs. I would like us find a ready to play small forward and a ready to play utility type player. That's not to say they will start best 22, but they will be capable to step up when the need arises or even better earn a place in the 22.

I'm sure KM will correct me if I'm wrong but I suspect he was talking more about top 10 list players for the future not now. We also need to have our list manager hat on and say with likely upgrade of Frost that we only have two list spots available. Obviously we use pick 5 and I'd be very surprised to see us not use 30. Picking up any delisted players would either have to be as a rookie (if that's possible) or would mean we have to delist more players. We've added some best 22 experience in Greenwood & Varcoe to replace Beams & HL and I think we are building more for 2016 onwards than 2015.

 

[mike123]

Well all those delisted players I'd only rookie. But I still think there are some good options up there that would be good depth.

 

[TheWing121]

From what I've heard he's very athletic.

Moore has Rare Athletism for a 199cm Player

I appreciate he has great athleticism for someone of his size, but does this translate into great ahtelticism for potential 3rd defender (who are typically smaller than 199)

 

[Bard]

I see your point there KM, but at this stage of the year it is about depth players. You are going to struggle to find a top 10 list player post trade period. Our depth has been exposed at times mainly thru a freak run of injuries, but we need to do all we can to strengthen the squad not just the 22, you are only as good as your weakest player.

Our age profile is very lopsided now and I can't see us adding anyone from the draft past the top 30 pick that will significantly add to the squad let alone the best 22. At the same time there is limited suitable options out there outside the draft, but nonetheless some that fit our needs. I would like us find a ready to play small forward and a ready to play utility type player. That's not to say they will start best 22, but they will be capable to step up when the need arises or even better earn a place in the 22.

To do that you'd have to delist two current senior players to fit those two in. That's assuming we don't want to use pick 48 either, because if we did we'd have to delist 3.

 

[POKsPies252]

KM,
What do u think about our KPP stocks in the future?
I think if we could get Wright then that could really set us up for the future
Ideally in 5 years (post Cloke)

FB: Frost (27-28)
CHB: Reid (29-30)
3rd tall: Marsh (24-25)

I would then have Langdon (25-26) and Scharenberg (24-25) sharing the time between 4th tall and midfield.

CHF: Wright (23-24)
FF: Moore (23-24)
3rd tall: Grundy (24-25) and Witts (26-27) sharing time between 3rd tall and Ruck
Karnezis (26-27) mixing time between 4th tall and midfield

 

[4#Didak#4]

I'm sure KM will correct me if I'm wrong but I suspect he was talking more about top 10 list players for the future not now. We also need to have our list manager hat on and say with likely upgrade of Frost that we only have two list spots available. Obviously we use pick 5 and I'd be very surprised to see us not use 30. Picking up any delisted players would either have to be as a rookie (if that's possible) or would mean we have to delist more players. We've added some best 22 experience in Greenwood & Varcoe to replace Beams & HL and I think we are building more for 2016 onwards than 2015.

I understand that, but still believe its unlikely find a top 10 player with anything past our pick 30 and rookies whether that be now or the future. I think we need to address specific list issues and most of the players suggested are young - e.g. Johnston is 23 and Wanganeen younger.

List space is an issue, however we have a lot of rookie spots. Whether that means recruiting and placing guys on rookie list or moving someone like Ramsay or others to a rookie list to free a senior spot. As long as someone fits the right profile of need, low cost, not too old or young.

 

[mike123]

I understand that, but still believe its unlikely find a top 10 player with anything past our pick 30 and rookies whether that be now or the future. I think we need to address specific list issues and most of the players suggested are young - e.g. Johnston is 23 and Wanganeen younger.

List space is an issue, however we have a lot of rookie spots. Whether that means recruiting and placing guys on rookie list or moving someone like Ramsay or others to a rookie list to free a senior spot. As long as someone fits the right profile of need, low cost, not too old or young.

The only reason why we wouldn't have to rookie them is if another club is interested in them and is willing to give up a senior list post. Personally I think Ramsay should be put on the rookie list anyways. Also with Scharenberg and Caff on the long term injury list we have two spots available for rookies. I think we should rookie both Wanganeen and Johnston.

 

[Couch Coach]

Knight,

Who are the future captains in this draft?

With the loss of Maxwell, Ball, etc. do you think it is something we should try to bring in or develop within?

If we drafted Lever at 5 we would then have Lever and S'berg as defensive generals to make up for the quiet defenders in Frost, Keefe, Etc.

Also I am keen on Dan Butler as a late pick/rookie. Have you done a write up of his weaknesses yet?

 

[Bard]

Knight,

Who are the future captains in this draft?

With the loss of Maxwell, Ball, etc. do you think it is something we should try to bring in or develop within?

If we drafted Lever at 5 we would then have Lever and S'berg as defensive generals to make up for the quiet defenders in Frost, Keefe, Etc.

Also I am keen on Dan Butler as a late pick/rookie. Have you done a write up of his weaknesses yet?

Darcy Moore would have to be at the top of the 'future captains' board in this draft, after captaining the TAC GF.

 

[PieMan!]

Should we have a look at Sam Blease? Very fast and adds to the midfield depth that we need very badly

 

[mike123]

Should we have a look at Sam Blease? Very fast and adds to the midfield depth that we need very badly

I think the Cats are after him to replace Varcoe.

 

[PieMan!]

I think the Cats are after him to replace Varcoe.

They took Mitch Clake from us,we take sam blease from them

 

[Knightmare]

Hardingham is an interesting one who I think slipped out of favour at Essendon. I think he can make a really capable defender in the Toovey mould as he is good overhead, has a good leap and closing speed. Not sure he fits our side, but a side like Melbourne should look at him.

Another who is moving on from the Bombers is Leroy Jetta. He is another who has fallen out of favour and I think he would benefit from a change of scenery and a less toxic environment.

I think Jetta should be looked at to play that small forward role. I don't think he hits the scoreboard as much as a guy with that talent should. However his defensive pressure (at least early in his career) was fantastic and that seems to be what Bucks rates highly. Is he an upgrade on Blair as a small forward is the question to ask. I am desperate for someone to challenge as a small forward in our best 22 and that will only come from outside talent IMO. Having missed Jeff Garlett, I think Jetta and Wanganeen are feasible options given they will cost us nothing.

Hardingham is someone who as required can play at AFL level and would be suitable depth for a team looking for another role playing defender who can come in and play as required. He just as you identified doesn't fill a need for us. We have a whole host of negating defenders with Brown and Frost as talls who are stoppers only and Toovey and Williams (Williams I say because he can't kick). Then Sinclair, Ramsay and Goldsack also are not rebounders. So if we do look to add to our back half stocks it would need to be more that Aaron Mullett type.
- As an example in this draft a Garrett McDonagh could be an example of someone who could add some meaningful rebound to our back half as a rookie.

Melbourne may be able to use Hardingham. It depends on how aggressively they want to pump games into their youth, but that's an option for them with veterans for back half stability useful.

Leroy Jetta though I'm not such a fan of. He is neither quick nor provides meaningful scoreboard impact. Positionally you are right that he is someone who could help but we've got better with Elliott/Broomhead/Fasolo. Even Dwyer and Blair I slightly prefer to Leroy Jetta as players who are more consistent and can do a few more things. He has been in the system a long time and is at a stage where we know who he is, and who he is, is a state league standard player.

Wangageen even I would slightly favour to Leroy Jetta, though other than his preseason and first few rebounds again I haven't been overly impressed.

I see your point there KM, but at this stage of the year it is about depth players. You are going to struggle to find a top 10 list player post trade period. Our depth has been exposed at times mainly thru a freak run of injuries, but we need to do all we can to strengthen the squad not just the 22, you are only as good as your weakest player.

Our age profile is very lopsided now and I can't see us adding anyone from the draft past the top 30 pick that will significantly add to the squad let alone the best 22. At the same time there is limited suitable options out there outside the draft, but nonetheless some that fit our needs. I would like us find a ready to play small forward and a ready to play utility type player. That's not to say they will start best 22, but they will be capable to step up when the need arises or even better earn a place in the 22.

We're a strong team through the draft historically. We've with draft age talent had some bargains through the rookie draft - Maxwell, Williams, Wellingham, Macaffer then Frost who was a couple of years older among others. Last year we managed Langdon and Marsh late draft who both are terrific and have genuine long term best 22 chances.
That's more what we need rather than a mature body just for the sake of increasing our age profile and adding depth. That doesn't make us better and our priority as a team going through a rebuild at the moment with the injection of first round talents these past now three years, we need to play these guys and look for ways to build another premiership best 22 and look to add those pieces to what we already have.

Going through the list we have so much depth that there isn't a player on the list you could definitely say can't play a senior game in 2015. We have a list filled with depth guys who are adequate but not helping us take that next step. We need to take that to finding more genuine best 22 guys through the draft.

I'm completely fine using pick 48 on someone and I think with that pick there is a genuine chance someone worthwhile from a future best 22 standpoint slides through. Toby McLean as an example. Best on ground in the TAC Cup Grand Final. We could use him as a forward. He is another not quite as good, but another Jamie Elliott as a high flying marking forward who can also push into the midfield but then also has the excellent production to back up his case and a suitable all round game being skilled and quick enough. And that's before accounting for sliders. Maybe a Dean Gore, Reece McKenzie, Peter Bampton or Connor Menadue make it through to 48. Or as overagers Daniel Howe, Taylor Grace or Nathan Drummond may appeal with the improvements they've made this year and the strong seasons they've had.
I'm just seeing some better guys available in the draft who have long term best 22 chances which for the delisted free agents I can't say.

I'm sure KM will correct me if I'm wrong but I suspect he was talking more about top 10 list players for the future not now. We also need to have our list manager hat on and say with likely upgrade of Frost that we only have two list spots available. Obviously we use pick 5 and I'd be very surprised to see us not use 30. Picking up any delisted players would either have to be as a rookie (if that's possible) or would mean we have to delist more players. We've added some best 22 experience in Greenwood & Varcoe to replace Beams & HL and I think we are building more for 2016 onwards than 2015.

I'd love top 10 players now - but that doesn't tend to happen through the draft.
Top 10 now players are more through trade and free agency.
As future guys we're looking at the draft which is where we're up to now. The pressure is on us now at firstly 5 to bring home that eventual top 10 list talent and at 30 and even 48 we need to be looking for guys we see as future best 22 players.

As our list is at a point whereby we go deep at most positions but now we need to find guys who can elevate our best team and push those hangers on in the best 22 out as upgrades on those existing pieces.

To do that you'd have to delist two current senior players to fit those two in. That's assuming we don't want to use pick 48 either, because if we did we'd have to delist 3.

I'd be using pick 48, no question. With Frost after that point upgrade.

This year is slightly deeper than last year so if we can get guys as late as we did last year, we have an opportunity at 48 to find a long term piece.

Delisting an Armstrong/Oxley/Ramsay/Dwyer/Sinclair is no big deal. Any of those guys can always be rookied to make room for further senior players.

I can't speak for the club but I'd take that pick 48 over any of those guys.

KM,
What do u think about our KPP stocks in the future?
I think if we could get Wright then that could really set us up for the future
Ideally in 5 years (post Cloke)

FB: Frost (27-28)
CHB: Reid (29-30)
3rd tall: Marsh (24-25)

I would then have Langdon (25-26) and Scharenberg (24-25) sharing the time between 4th tall and midfield.

CHF: Wright (23-24)
FF: Moore (23-24)
3rd tall: Grundy (24-25) and Witts (26-27) sharing time between 3rd tall and Ruck
Karnezis (26-27) mixing time between 4th tall and midfield

Our ruck combination I feel for winning now is insufficient but Grundy and Witts long term and from perhaps 2017 will be terrific.

Down back we have more than enough depth and a depth of AFL quality options. Ideally I'd like higher level options back there, additionally the guys we have are too negating as stoppers only which also ideally wouldn't be the case. But we can live with what we have if Keeffe plays alongside one of Frost or Brown. For that reason maybe a Lever could be looked at depending on our evaluation of Keeffe, but I'm ok with Keeffe and as a result probably pass on Lever.

Up forward Cloke and Reid are good when healthy but Reid's health is the concern. Moore will be a long term piece and I'd play him any games Reid misses as that second key forward, but I would like to partner Moore with someone long term... McCartin or Wright would more than suffice. Otherwise someone else in a future season - say Cameron/Patton if they ever become available. Depending on our optimism going forward of adding another key forward of this quality, that likely if McCartin/Wright are available will help to determine whether we pick them. Same story with Reece McKenzie at 30 who I'm also red hot on.

I'm be leaning in the direction of adding one of McCartin/Wright at 5 depending on available and if they're not there R.McKenzie at 30. Key defenders and ruckmen given we missed in free agency I'd pass on with the ruck options poor this draft period and not helping us in the immediate.

Knight,

Who are the future captains in this draft?

With the loss of Maxwell, Ball, etc. do you think it is something we should try to bring in or develop within?

If we drafted Lever at 5 we would then have Lever and S'berg as defensive generals to make up for the quiet defenders in Frost, Keefe, Etc.

Also I am keen on Dan Butler as a late pick/rookie. Have you done a write up of his weaknesses yet?

Lever, Moore, Brayshaw. Maybe Duggan or Weller. Heeney plausibly. They're the names who project as future captains if anyone does.

With Butler and he won't be in my top 50 for the end of the season - though I liked him earlier on. He is terrifically explosive with his running, can run around guys. Has versatility. The primary issue is he just isn't a great kick consistently. While I advocate us adding pace, it also on the outside needs to be guys who can use it more consistently and do more damage by foot.
*Same story with Castagna if you've seen him who is much the same story as Butler as a linebreaker without great footskills.

 

[Knightmare]

Darcy Moore would have to be at the top of the 'future captains' board in this draft, after captaining the TAC GF.

Lever for me. The guy captained Vic Metro as an underager!

But Moore is for me clear second and as captained for Oakleigh was terrific. If he doesn't eventually become a part of our leadership group alongside Pendlebury/Scharenberg/Langdon/Adams I'd be disappointed. In fact that group are probably even next year, as young as they all other than Pendlebury are, that next best group of leaders. Elliott may also with the way he is working at his game yearly be someone who could enter that discussion for us.

Should we have a look at Sam Blease? Very fast and adds to the midfield depth that we need very badly

I believe Hawthorn are set to take him as a delisted free agent. And with their strong development program if anyone gets the best out of him they're the best shot and perhaps they can make him into a Kyle Cheaney kind of role player - not the same role obviously but someone who can as required contribute sort of idea.

I'm not overly interested in Blease personally, though I know Snoop Dog who is a good judge is a fan and would agree with you.

Blease is a list fit in so much as he injects pace and is a good user of the footy. Just everything else with the guy for me isn't up to an AFL standard. Defensive running is poor. He is so light bodied that he gets knocked off the contest easily. Production/numbers poor. While he has the highlight reel of tricks he doesn't have the complete package to overall be a best 22 quality footballer. He is someone you really have to hide the negatives of to get the positives from which only may happen on a top quality contending team.

As much as we could use a Blease type, I don't want Blease specifically.

 

[Apex36]

If we don't pick up another KPF prospect this year to compliment Moore, what do you think our chances are of picking up Sam Weideman in 2015?

Last I heard he was shaping up as a pretty good prospect. (Incidentally, Murray is adamant he will play for the Pies one day)

 

[Knightmare]

If we don't pick up another KPF prospect this year to compliment Moore, what do you think our chances are of picking up Sam Weideman in 2015?

Last I heard he was shaping up as a pretty good prospect. (Incidentally, Murray is adamant he will play for the Pies one day)

Sam is still developing and eligible next year. He is a potential first rounder. Plausible top 10 pick even next year. He has shown some signs. Nice height, good size. Can take a contested grab. Numbers could be better. But he still has another year to work on that.

I wouldn't discount young Sam as a possibility.

 

[soreplums]

Sam is still developing and eligible next year. He is a potential first rounder. Plausible top 10 pick even next year. He has shown some signs. Nice height, good size. Can take a contested grab. Numbers could be better. But he still has another year to work on that.

I wouldn't discount young Sam as a possibility.

Would we need to evoke the grandfather/ grandson bidding system?

 

[Knightmare]

Would we need to evoke the grandfather/ grandson bidding system?

You'd love it to exist but no such luck.