Saga should be over soon.

[Broken_Chairs]

Oh.. and the reason he's appealing is to open up a tort IMO.

A tort shop? Not sure I'd feel safe eating them to be honest.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Will be interesting the impact this has on Essendon's pre-season once players are placed on the ROF and get issued with INs. My understanding is from that point on they are provisionally suspensed and therefore unable to train as a team. Hirdy may as well head overseas for a few weeks longer if thats the case although I guess he has his own local legal matters to attend to.

firstly, don't think a provisional suspension has any bearing on training. Secondly, the AFL can override that.

 

[Laphroaig]

Oh.. and the reason he's appealing is to open up a tort IMO.

Red and black glasses view. It might be a palatable explanation, but it's massively unrealistic. Hird's case is explicitly seeking to suppress the evidence. He goes to a civil case that evidence and a lot more is going to make it onto the table. The conclusion you choose is incompatible with the known facts.

Somewhat akin to the theory that Court case was only entered into to speed up the process.

I suggest you need to step back a bit.

 

[MaddAdam]

I think we can have wink wink deals with the players now to play for unders allowing some good FA raids with the guarantee that we'll settle out of court with minimal legal costs to players and confidentiality kept. Could give them a cool mil each. Hopefully the club has looked into this.

Ahh, so cheating the salary cap is back on the agenda? "Play for unders" ...

You know, your pricks will absolutely never ever change your mindset will you?

As a North supporter I've known this in my DNA, but you types, from the CEO and president down, couldn't lie straight in bed.

 

[yeahmate]

firstly, don't think a provisional suspension has any bearing on training. Secondly, the AFL can override that.

I'd be suprised if its cool under the Anti doping code for suspended players to rock up to training in any official capacity. And yes I understand the AFL can override it but thats a discretionary thing under the rules so Essendon or the players would need to make some sort of application I imagine..

 

[threesixpio]

I think the AFLPA has forgotten they are supposed to represent the "player's" not just the "Essendon player's" interest and they've been a spectacular failure even at that. Where is the outrage at the situation that Essendon has created? Or the health effects on the players? Or the effects on opposing players?

Not a word for those who caused the problem but continual sniping at the only organisation trying to do something about it. Very poor effort.

Their huffing and puffing would be better directed at Dank et al to explain what was done to the players they are paid to represent.

Will be interesting the impact this has on Essendon's pre-season once players are placed on the ROF and get issued with INs. My understanding is from that point on they are provisionally suspensed and therefore unable to train as a team. Hirdy may as well head overseas for a few weeks longer if thats the case although I guess he has his own local legal matters to attend to.

Will be interesting the impact this has on Essendon's pre-season once players are placed on the ROF and get issued with INs. My understanding is from that point on they are provisionally suspensed and therefore unable to train as a team. Hirdy may as well head overseas for a few weeks longer if thats the case although I guess he has his own local legal matters to attend to.

Cooney can swap war stories with Goddard....

 

[fabulousphil]

Didn't understand what the case was all about? If I want minimal proof to take up 350 pages dot points help. So here is my reply.

1. Club wanted the whole thing put off till after the season. Check
2. There were rumour that provisional suspensions would stand while players took cases to tribunal. So that was motivation to attack investigation.
3. There was no evidence attached to SCNs and club was confident no one had doped by their own investigation and interim report. So there were a little worried that there was some new evidence of doping that they were unaware of. Part of the early orders contained discovery orders. Club saw there was nothing new, which is why they never appealed.
4. They were upset at the process of having what should have been confidential interviews with coaches and players consistently leaked to the press ... and the deliberate selective quoting in both that leaking and the interim report. The club successfully brought that to light.
5. The club was told by ASADA early on that there was nothing wrong with AOD, yet they let players reputations be publicly besmirched by hanging them out to dry with that.
6. There were deals and promises made between the AFL and ASADA early on which then encouraged our then president to get involved and look for a manufactured investigation and outcome.

I think it was a success. Hird is continuing on because a successful appeal means he'll be suing everyone. Gil, Vlad, Finnis, Caro ...

When I read this I really feel vindicated by the stance I have taken through the whole saga.

I think Caroline Wilson has plenty to answer for personally.

 

[Bobby Charlton]

To all the Essendon supporters high 5-ing each other like this is some sign that players think the evidence won't see them go down, why do you think the AFLPA statement expends so much energy explaining that delays should not be attributable to the players?

My first impression on it was that they're really trying to distance the players from the delays to make a case for backdating to the issuing of the original SCNs.

An alternative view is that the statement's remarks, regarding the non-player caused delays, provide a rational and justifiable basis for the call for unusual urgent action and an end to such delays. The call for fast track action, rather than usual process, needs to be justified and the past delays (even WADA was not given reasons for all the NRL delays) and the damage to the players resulting from those delays provide the appropriate justification for exceptional action. ASADA will need a good excuse to deny the request for speed.

 

[MaddAdam]

I'm going on what people at the club have said, what the interim report said (when you look at any actual evidence) and what public interviews with Dank, Alavi, Robinson and Charters give you.

It's been a very badly kept secret for days now that the SCNs hold nothing new from the interim report. Other than Alavi confirming that a batch of what he thought was TB4 was picked up by Dank and that Dank later told him they were damaged by the sun.

Strong case there.

Indeed, damaged by the sun. Funny how all the other good gear managed to make it to Windy Hill to be injected - the AOD, the hex, the melantonan.

Just this TB4 got damaged by the sun.

Watertight.

 

[telsor]

Cooney can swap war stories with Goddard....

Fletcher will keep interupting with stories of the boer war.

 

[MaddAdam]

Sorry if this has been posted already but this thread joins the great pantheon of 'over soon' HTB threads.

Enjoy.

From 15th May 2013

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/over-soon.1006180/

28th June 2013

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/over-soon.1015631/

Yes, we are at the happy point in the cycle where some news comes and the Essendon types convince themselves it will all be OK.

This is inevitably followed by some crushing revelation.

I mean, Jesus, the idea that the world's most senior anti doping experts, and the former judge of the appeal body in Australia, and a hard nosed go getter cop would agree to a "fishing exercise" in such a high profile case is simply so ludicrous it makes you wonder.

But then, this is the football club that convinced itself Ariel Steinberg was worthy of a game in a final, so anything's possible really.

 

[yeahmate]

Cooney can swap war stories with Goddard....

Can see it now....

CHAPPY: Geez not many here for the first session...not like the Catters 06/07...How about we do some tackling practice?
COONEY: ....um....my knees a big sore for that...
FLETCHER: how about we hit the pub for a few quick pots, whose going to know? Hirdy's still off in the Riveria somewhere on a management course or something
CHAPPY: hmmm, by the way, anyone seen Bomber round lately?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Some fair points here.

Do we really think though that if Hird stepped down the media would have pulled back? This saga was always front page no matter who the media wanted to blame. I think Hird made a poor choice in getting spin doctors, but the whole Robbo thing was just a retaliation to the AFL/Wilson daily segments, and let's not act blind and say it wasn't happening.

We are all pissed this has taken so long, but Hird being suspended and saying nothing for 12 months had no bearing on that whatsoever so is a bit unfair to lay blame there. Most Essendon people are happy with what happened in court, it aired dirty laundry and filled in some questions and even though we were always unlikely to win, we came away a bit happier than we were before. i was upset Hird chose to appeal but that is his choice, as we have seen it hasn't held up anything so we can't complain there.

After the board backed down on their decision to sack him, it left us with no other choice but to see it through. We made the decision, and be it the correct call or not Hird must now stay coach, unless of course, players cop suspensions.

Finally, I'm not sure what Hird having cosmetic surgery has anything to do with him as a person, but if people want to judge over something that has absolutely nothing to do with the saga then that is for them to decide, which really, sums them up as a person. He did after all have his face caved in and that can leave mental scars he feels he needs to fix. Or he just enjoys the feel of face lifts. Who gives a s**t.

Deserves follow up, but I'll take it offline from this thread.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

You think, Chip reckons next year!!!!!!!!!!

When does Chip have his barbies? I have them every fortnight.

 

[MaddAdam]

Well yeah, if the players believed they were getting a banned substance then it can be shown they were willing to cheat.

As far as I know, no players have believed they were getting a banned substance.

The players can have believed they were getting a banned substance - Thymosin - but not known it was banned.

FFS, its pretty obvious the whole thing revolves around "smartest guy in the room" Danky thinking he was being ultra cute and squeaking AOD and Thymosin through the S0 grey area but having screwed up and not realised that TB4 had been kicked up to S2.

Hence the panicked calls to McKenzie the following day post the interview.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

STATEMENT FROM AFL PLAYERS' CEO PAUL MARSH
http://www.aflplayers.com.au/article/statement-from-afl-players-ceo-paul-marsh-2/

http://asada.gov.au/media/organised_crime_and_drugs_in_sport.html

 

[eldorado]

http://asada.gov.au/media/organised_crime_and_drugs_in_sport.html

To hell with Andruska, McDevitt goes whooshka!!

 

[Linda Lovelace]

This thread is one big pile of shite.

 

[MaddAdam]

Haha, McDevitt not wasting any time putting the AFLPA back in its box.

 

[Thrawn]

The AFLPA can go suck a donkey's utensil.

 

[TerryWallet]

To hell with Andruska, McDevitt goes whooshka!!

Reads like McDevitt was on the can wiping his arse with Paul Marsh's statement and Chip and Grant Baker's articles as he dictated this reply to his secretary lol

 

[BlueWorld]

http://asada.gov.au/media/organised_crime_and_drugs_in_sport.html

Saga should be over soon- I think not. Wrong again OP.

Keep upsetting ASADA is really going to help you. Those deals are looking worse and worse all the time.

‘I only wish that such interest in player welfare had been present in 2012,’ Mr McDevitt said.

ASADA reminded the players’ lawyer that the ADRVP is a separate and independent body to ASADA and the CEO has no legal power to direct the function of the ADRVP or to dictate the timing of its consideration of cases.

AFLPA clearly have no idea how the process even works, demanding ASADA expedite the ADRVP when they are separate bodies.

 

[Broken_Chairs]

Haha, McDevitt not wasting any time putting the AFLPA back in its box.

hahaha, though really not a surprising reaction

 

[Argy]

An alternative view is that the statement's remarks, regarding the non-player caused delays, provide a rational and justifiable basis for the call for unusual urgent action and an end to such delays. The call for fast track action, rather than usual process, needs to be justified and the past delays (even WADA was not given reasons for all the NRL delays) and the damage to the players resulting from those delays provide the appropriate justification for exceptional action. ASADA will need a good excuse to deny the request for speed.

You've read this, I presume?...

http://asada.gov.au/media/organised_crime_and_drugs_in_sport.html

‘In the six months I have been at ASADA I have had the club, the coach, the AFL Players’ Association, various other legal entities, plus other interested parties all voice their views as to the management of these matters.

‘While all claim to represent the interest of the players and/or Australian sport, the advice as to remedial actions varies dramatically.

‘In my role as protector of clean athletes in Australia, my advice to them is that if they want to act in the best interest of the players they should review the 12,000 pages of evidence and follow the due process.

‘I only wish that such interest in player welfare had been present in 2012,’ Mr McDevitt said.
​

Bam!

ASADA wishes to clarify comments made by various groups regarding ‘show cause’ notices and the provision of evidence to players.

Due to the Federal Court action by the Essendon Football Club and its coach, James Hird in June where they challenged the lawfulness of the evidence obtained by ASADA, it was appropriate for ASADA to delay the delivery of evidence in these matters until a judgment was handed down.

In the normal course of events, the comprehensive summary of evidence provided to players in the amended ‘show cause’ notices in October would have been available to players back in July.

ASADA is as keen as anyone to finalise these matters, but it will not risk the proper consideration of these serious matters for the sake of speed.

The period for players to respond to the amended ‘show cause’ notices ends on 27 October.
​

Double Bam!

 

[Bobby Charlton]

http://asada.gov.au/media/organised_crime_and_drugs_in_sport.html

Yep, McDevitt says gotta wait for ADRVP and their own timetable.

the CEO has no legal power to direct the function of the ADRVP or to dictate the timing of its consideration of cases.

McDevitt had no problem dispensing with the ADRVP altogether with the cases of 12 NRL players. So he has no power over the ADRVP but he can completely ignore it at his whim. Players should simply ask PC McDevitt to bypass the AVRVP - he did it with the NRL. The "mandatory" process required the ADRVP to consider the NRL cases - they didn't.