Luke Hodge v Chris Judd

[Schraderbrau]

You know the argument is over when all the Hawthorn posters focus on intangibles like leadership and courage. I'm not particularly fond of Judd but he literally on his own carried a terrible team up the ladder and into the finals. Hodge couldn't have done this even with all his mystical 'courage' and 'leadership'.

Judd wins and anything but a strong majority shows how much people dislike Carlton imo

 

[Lethality]

Judd's best is better, but Hodge has maintained an elite level for longer. Do you want a player who will contribute significantly for a longer period of time or a briefer period of singular brilliance?

 

[Schraderbrau]

Judd's best is better, but Hodge has maintained an elite level for longer. Do you want a player who will contribute significantly for a longer period of time or a briefer period of singular brilliance?

Judd's period at Carlton was still considerably better than Hodge's best. The longevity argument doesn't add up

 

[Donakebab]

Judd's best is better, but Hodge has maintained an elite level for longer. Do you want a player who will contribute significantly for a longer period of time or a briefer period of singular brilliance?

Nah Judd was better for longer.

 

[beta_condition]

You know the argument is over when all the Hawthorn posters focus on intangibles like leadership and courage. I'm not particularly fond of Judd but he literally on his own carried a terrible team up the ladder and into the finals. Hodge couldn't have done this even with all his mystical 'courage' and 'leadership'.

Judd wins and anything but a strong majority shows how much people dislike Carlton imo

What average side did Judd carry into finals and when did this happen? You mean Carlton for minute? You say Hodge couldn't carry a team to finals but he was one of the main corner stone in the current Hawthorn era which saw us from a struggling club in the 2000's to one of the best teams in the AFL era.

 

[Lethality]

Judd's period at Carlton was still considerably better than Hodge's best. The longevity argument doesn't add up

I'm not arguing either case, just asking the question. I think the poll is pretty pointless really, they're only being compared due to draft order.

 

[Schraderbrau]

What average side did Judd carry into finals and when did this happen? You mean Carlton for minute? You say Hodge couldn't carry a team to finals but he was one of the main corner stone in the current Hawthorn era which saw us from a struggling club in the 2000's to one of the best teams in the AFL era.

Yep Hodge is the sole reason for Hawthorn's success in 08, 13 and 14. The fact that Hawthorn had better players than him like Franklin, Mitchell, Burgoyne and Roughead had nothing to do with it . To put things into perspective, in Judd's time at Carlton they haven't had anyone near the quality of those players. Hodge is getting seriously overrated itt

 

[TazHawk15]

Hodge went past Judd in 2010.

The gap is getting wider.

 

[beta_condition]

Yep Hodge is the sole reason for Hawthorn's success in 08, 13 and 14. The fact that Hawthorn had better players than him like Franklin, Mitchell, Burgoyne and Roughead had nothing to do with it . To put things into perspective, in Judd's time at Carlton they haven't had anyone near the quality of those players. Hodge is getting seriously overrated itt

There more to winning and building a successful side than just how good a player is, obviously something you don't understand.

Nar you don't say?

 

[Donakebab]

Hodge went past Judd in 2010.

The gap is getting wider.

There was barely any gap in 2010 and Judd was back to being better in 2011.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

There was barely any gap in 2010 and Judd was back to being better in 2011.

Hodge was clearly better in 2010 but it is irrelevant. As much as I love Hodge, Judd has clearly been the better player over their careers. It is only raised as it was once considered a draft error by Hawthorn but surely that has been put to bed. Hawthorn got more from Hodge than St KIlda from Ball or West Coast from Judd. As has been argued before, if Hawthorn drafted Judd and if he stayed at Hawthorn (big IF IMO), we may have less premierships than we do now. Judd was at his absolute peak around 2004-2006 when Hawthorn were trash. In '08, Hodge's shift to defence was probably the single biggest contributor to rolling the red hot Cats. In 2013 and 2014 Judd was struggling with injury and past his best. Whether or not you agree with that argument is largely irrelevent though as no triple premiership, dual Norm Smith, triple AA club captain is ever going to be a mistake.

 

[Schraderbrau]

The only season in their respective careers where it could asserted that Hodge was better than Judd is 2014. Other than that Judd has been clearly better throughout his career all the while playing in a significantly more important position with significantly weaker players around him.

None of this is in dispute which is why Hodge supporters (or Judd haters) are clinging to intangibles like 'leadership' and 'courage' or, on the flip side, 'mercenary' or 'hired gun'. It's compete nonsense.

 

[TazHawk15]

The only season in their respective careers where it could asserted that Hodge was better than Judd is 2014.

Hodge was AA captain in 2010.

The whole footy worlds reaction to Judd being named on the AA bench that year was "WFT".

Judd making the team that year was as big a joke as his second umpires award.

 

[Schraderbrau]

Hodge was AA captain in 2010.

The whole footy worlds reaction to Judd being named on the AA bench that year was "WFT".

Judd making the team that year was as big a joke as his second umpires award.

So being AA captain trumps stuff like winning a brownlow medal? Next well hear people saying Hodge is better because he got the coach's award in u14's. Absurd!

 

[Guardian Hawk]

So being AA captain trumps stuff like winning a brownlow medal? Next well hear people saying Hodge is better because he got the coach's award in u14's. Absurd!

You'll notice from my posting history (including a few posts up) that I fully acknowledge that Judd has clearly been the better player over their careers so don't look at the team I support and conclude that I am just being biased. However, for those that actually remember the season, Hodge was definitely better than Judd in 2010, despite his ridiculous Brownlow win. I'm surprised as a Collingwood supporter you don't remember - because Hodge and Swan were vying for player of the year (and were neck and neck in media awards, coaches votes, etc) until round 17 when for the final few rounds Hodge's form dipped to finish the year and Swan cantered away to be clearly the best player that season. He deserved the Brownlow and Hodge was the clear no 2 that season. Judd, whilst still good of course, was nowhere near the top handful of players and the majority thought he made AA on name alone. His Brownlow win was considered ridiculous and coined the phrase 'C.Judd 3 votes' as he got a number of surprising BOG's. Not to worry, Swan got his Brownlow the following year in a bit of a square up as Swan wasn't as good and Judd was brilliant (although I'm still a bit dirty as a Hawthorn supporter as Mitchell was runner up to Swan and Swan was obviously getting noticed/votes after being criminally overlooked a number of times in 2010). Either way, Hodge was better in 2010 and led Hawthorn so well that he was named AA captain and it helped prompt a Hawthorn captaincy change. Regardless, Judd is still in front over their careers.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

So, I just did a bit of a google for stuff from 2010 to back up my claim(s);

This article highlights that Swan won the AFLPA MVP and Hodge was 2nd (Judd was not mentioned and not top 5): http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl...iation-mvp-award/story-e6frf3e3-1225924451956
I found the Age votes at the end of round 22 - Hodge 2nd (Swan 1st, Judd 6th): http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/age-footballer-of-the-year-round-22-votes-20100829-13xqk.html
Couldn't find the Herald Sun votes
Randomly could only find the coaches votes at round 12 - Hodge 1st a mile in front (nearly double the votes of Judd): http://aflca.com.au/index.php?id=14&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=76&tx_ttnews[backPid]=9&cHash=92bd7c9002

Edit: Found an Age article about the Coaches MVP in 2010 - Swan winner, Hodge 2nd, Judd not mentioned http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/malthouse-swan-win-coaches-awards-20100921-15ls8.html

 

[Rana_swans]

Hodge went past Judd in 2010.

The gap is getting wider.

Clearly Judd at his peak was a better player but all round, hodge has had a better career.

 

[TazHawk15]

Clearly Judd at his peak was a better player but all round, hodge has had a better career.

Spot on.

 

[Schraderbrau]

Spot on.

No not spot on. Judd for all bar (1-2 seasons of his career) has been a significantly better than Hodge.

This thread was only created because they were drafted together, it's almost a bit embarrassing having a thread comparing them tbh. Especially since there are more worthy players who have come through Hawthorn in that time, Sam Mitchell for one and I also class the criminally underrated Burgoyne as a better player as well. Hodge has had an excellent career but he is not even close to the top 10 players of the last decade let alone being regarded as one the greatest of all time - which is the level Judd is at.

 

[Monkey King]

Hodge went past Judd in 2010.

The gap is getting wider.

Hodge has never gone passed Judd. His last lap or two may have been faster, but he's still a long behind in the race.

 

[Monkey King]

The whole footy worlds reaction to Judd being named on the AA bench that year was "WFT".

Judd making the team that year was as big a joke as his second umpires award.

What a load of crap. He finished top 5 mid in AFLCA and MVP that year. This goes neatly alongside your assertion Hodge went passed Judd in 2010 despite Judd winning the MVP in 2011 and being arguably the league's best player - something Hodge has never laid claims to.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Luke Hodge: 2x Premiership Captain, 2 x Norm Smith medalist. That's what clubs hope they are getting when they take a pick in the top 10. Someone who will lead their club to a flag, and Hodge has done it 3 times.

So the answer to the Op is simple. If you want someone to lead your team to Premiership success, you pick Hodge. If you want someone to have individual success, you pick Judd.

 

[TazHawk15]

Hodge has never gone passed Judd. His last lap or two may have been faster, but he's still a long behind in the race.

Says the bloke that would argue that Fevola was a better FF than Dunstall.

Such is your bias.

 

[Monkey King]

Says the bloke that would argue that Fevola was a better FF than Dunstall.

Such is your bias.

Find me any such quote. Of course, this argument of yours is as vacuous and flawed as everything else you've claimed about Judd.

 

[Monkey King]

Luke Hodge: 2x Premiership Captain, 2 x Norm Smith medalist. That's what clubs hope they are getting when they take a pick in the top 10. Someone who will lead their club to a flag, and Hodge has done it 3 times.

So the answer to the Op is simple. If you want someone to lead your team to Premiership success, you pick Hodge. If you want someone to have individual success, you pick Judd.

Eh? Judd's a premiership captain and NS medalist. Put him in a team like the Hawks and he'd have all that Hodge has plus the better individual career; which is basically all you're saying, that Hodge has played with better teams.