List Mgmt. AFC - 2014 Drafting and Trading

[matty p]

Went to school with Alex and the fact he made the AFL is astounding. Back in those days he was average and didn't make the school side.

Credit to him, he has worked bloody hard in the last 6-7 years and was harshly dealt with. Cheney is probably taking his spot and has better disposal but if we picked him up I wouldnt be against it.

Georgiou would be competing with Hartigan for the 2nd KPD spot, not Cheney for the 3rd tall. I'd think he's definitely worth a rookie spot, because if something goes wrong with Hartigan we currently pretty much have no one to replace him.

 

[Tantidar]

Georgiou would be competing with Hartigan for the 2nd KPD spot, not Cheney for the 3rd tall. I'd think he's definitely worth a rookie spot, because if something goes wrong with Hartigan we currently pretty much have no one to replace him.

Surely not. He's only listed as 187 cm

 

[dylan123]

Yeah thought he was a 3rd tall for Melbourne who was holding the spot until Garland returned.

 

[AFC979810]

FYI, it's too simplistic to look at "7 years". His first 2 were as a rookie. He obviously showed enough to be promoted. So 5 years on a senior list - about 2 of them were lost to injury.

Lowden was on Hawks list for 6 years, and not considered best 22, so has to be lower than Martin, right?

Not sure how you can compare Lowden to Martin. Well known that big boys take time. Lowden has been on an AFL list one year less than Martin and is 2 years younger. Plus he is 202cm and 102kg. It takes time for you to grow into that body.

I would also suggest that the fact Hawthorn let him go after 6 years says a bit. Particularly when they let him go for so little.

Jarrod Grant was drafted at #5 the same year as Brodie - only once has he played more than 17 games in a season. 62 games in 7 years.

Poor example. Firstly Grant was a highly rated KPF. Martin was a rookie listed flanker. Thats the difference. I could understand us persisting with Martin if he was highly talented and his #1 key attribute (speed) wasn't stolen from him due to 2 knee Recos.

Geelong

took Jonathon Simpkin in the 2005 rookie draft - played his first 4 games there in 2012 (7 years). Now at Hawks, 32 games in two years.

You almost got this one right. Simpkin was taken in 2006 rookie draft by Sydney. Spent 2 years on their list. Moved back to Melbourne and played in VFL for a couple of years before getting drafted by Geelong in the 2011 Rookie Draft. So he has spent his years across 3 different clubs.

Jake Spencer @ Melbourne was taken earlier in the rookie draft - 29 games

Another 203 CM giant. I have absolutely no problem with teams drafting these young kids and keeping them on a list for as long as it takes to become bigger and get coordinated. Once again - this guy is as far away from Martin as you can get.

Tom Logan has been on Port list for 8 years, and he's still not best 22.

Now we are talking. Is an absolute rubbish footballer. I have no idea why this guy is still on Ports list. You are 100% correct in that they are pretty similar. He is a spud.He does have a little more of a track record than Martin though... Has played 110 games for Port in the same time Martin has played 35. I think he is still living off that 2007 Prelim to be honest.

Logan won't be there in 2016. Martin won't (hopefully) be at Adelaide in 2016. Lets just hope we don't waste games on Martin.

 

[Bacon8]

You almost got this one right. Simpkin was taken in 2006 rookie draft by Sydney. Spent 2 years on their list. Moved back to Melbourne and played in VFL for a couple of years before getting drafted by Geelong in the 2011 Rookie Draft. So he has spent his years across 3 different clubs.

Yeah, the 2006 rookie draft - that happens after the 2005 National draft. I'll never understand why the AFL named them like that.

And yeah, I erred, cos I saw the club from (Geelong) when Sydney took him. I knew he'd been at Sydney, but just ran with my extract.

I added the big boys examples, because you said "Who are these players on other teams lists that have been on a list for 7 years and aren't best 22?" - there was no "not big boys that take longer to develop". Grant is a perfectly legitimate example/answer of your question.

And while big boys do take longer, so do rookie listed players - because they have deficiencies.

 

[DroppingTheBall]

http://www.elitesports.com.au/talent-category/adelaide-crows/

That's who of the Crow players are managed by ESP.

I get the strong feeling that quite a lot of those heads are photoshopped onto the jerseys. Eerie.

 

[baldandbroke]

Just listened to the Sando interview linked earlier - he publicly stated that he'd draft McKernan back onto an AFL list.

Now look, I got sucked into Smack when he came onto our list - but even a slow learner like me eventually worked out that I was wrong.

Is there even a 1% worth of potential in drafting a player like Smack? (not to AFC, for other clubs)

Does trying and failing rank higher than say never getting the chance - ie Lowden?

 

[Vooligan]

Just listened to the Sando interview linked earlier - he publicly stated that he'd draft McKernan back onto an AFL list.

Now look, I got sucked into Smack when he came onto our list - but even a slow learner like me eventually worked out that I was wrong.

Is there even a 1% worth of potential in drafting a player like Smack? (not to AFC, for other clubs)

Does trying and failing rank higher than say never getting the chance - ie Lowden?

Well he's not the world's most horrible player. He did actually show glimpses for us. I personally wouldn't have him, but surely he's worth a rookie spot somewhere from someone willing to have a punt.

 

[crowman_23]

Can't really rate Lowden as the 6 years on a list people keep talking about. Look at pictures of him when he was drafted, he was never going to play in the first 3-4 years as was a stick. Has built his body up nicely and really has only been competing at a decent level in the VFL over the last couple of years.

 

[1970crow]

Well he's not the world's most horrible player. He did actually show glimpses for us. I personally wouldn't have him, but surely he's worth a rookie spot somewhere from someone willing to have a punt.

Smack seems like the type of player who would play consistently better at afl level than the lower level. I can't see him working his way onto a team from a rookie list. But if you sat him down and said his position was assured in the 1's unless he simply stopped trying, then I reckon he'd have a decent year, ruck well and kick 35-40 goals. Scenario 2 is never going to happen, so Smacks ability/potential will likely remain unfulfilled.

 

[GROTTO]

I get the strong feeling that quite a lot of those heads are photoshopped onto the jerseys. Eerie.

Well Scotty Thompson is real and so is A North player that they manage.

Thompson's guns and the North player in question is obviously real.

 

[Miss Vanessa]

Smack seems like the type of player who would play consistently better at afl level than the lower level. I can't see him working his way onto a team from a rookie list. But if you sat him down and said his position was assured in the 1's unless he simply stopped trying, then I reckon he'd have a decent year, ruck well and kick 35-40 goals. Scenario 2 is never going to happen, so Smacks ability/potential will likely remain unfulfilled.

I still don't get why people think Smack has the potential to play consistently good AFL footy. 3 times in his 34 games did he kick 2 goals... and never more than two. He is so far off being a 40 goal a year forward it's not funny. Just for comparison, Pavlich, Cloke and Darling kicked 42, 39 and 39 goals this year... Smack is not of their calibre.

 

[Grenville]

Is there even a 1% worth of potential in drafting a player like Smack? (not to AFC, for other clubs)

Depends on why you believe he didnt make it at the AFC. I'm in the camp that believes it's between the ears.
He's got a good combination of size/athleticism, can take a contested grab, is still young and will come cheap. For a list spot and a few dollars it's a pretty low-risk gamble to see if a new environment can get the best out of him.

 

[Sanders]

Depends on why you believe he didnt make it at the AFC. I'm in the camp that believes it's between the ears.
He's got a good combination of size/athleticism, can take a contested grab, is still young and will come cheap. For a list spot and a few dollars it's a pretty low-risk gamble to see if a new environment can get the best out of him.

If it's between the ears even less chance of it coming right

 

[Grenville]

If it's between the ears even less chance of it coming right

Agreed - but if it's going to happen then the change of clubs would be the catalyst. For a rebuilding club like St Kilda it's a low risk gamble.

 

[1970crow]

I still don't get why people think Smack has the potential to play consistently good AFL footy. 3 times in his 34 games did he kick 2 goals... and never more than two. He is so far off being a 40 goal a year forward it's not funny. Just for comparison, Pavlich, Cloke and Darling kicked 42, 39 and 39 goals this year... Smack is not of their calibre.

But 40 goal JJ is of their calibre? I think he has the ability to play as well and consistently as Jenkins. A more static player but better contested mark, better relief ruckman but obviously less mobile. As per my original post, he seems like the type of person who needs the security of knowing his spot is assured, providing some simple effort benchmarks are met.

 

[Matman23]

I don't mind taking one player as a delisted free agent but as long as we stop there. These players were let go by their clubs for a reason. Just like why we let go of our delisted players. We also have a seriously need to bring in youth. We only have one player 21 or under who is over 195cm. That's concerning considering key position players and ruck men take the longest to develop and are the hardest picks to get right.

 

[Wood_Duck]

What about Jacob Brennan, any interest here? I thought he was going to be a handy player a couple of years back

 

[Miss Vanessa]

But 40 goal JJ is of their calibre? I think he has the ability to play as well and consistently as Jenkins. A more static player but better contested mark, better relief ruckman but obviously less mobile. As per my original post, he seems like the type of person who needs the security of knowing his spot is assured, providing some simple effort benchmarks are met.

In his first 34 games, Jenkins kicked 2 goals 10 times, 3 goals twice, and 4 goals 4 times. He is a much better footballer than Smack and while I wouldn't class Jenkins in the same class as player as Pav and Cloke, the truth is Jenkins managed to kick 40 goals in a year, a pretty decent feat that not very many players actually achieve.

 

[GROTTO]

In his first 34 games, Jenkins kicked 2 goals 10 times, 3 goals twice, and 4 goals 4 times. He is a much better footballer than Smack and while I wouldn't class Jenkins in the same class as player as Pav and Cloke, the truth is Jenkins managed to kick 40 goals in a year, a pretty decent feat that not very many players actually achieve.

Most in here would say he is definitely capable of doing more, especially if he placed himself in better positions and used his strong body strength to his advantage. More suited to a team when he is taking the 2nd or 3rd best defender especially.

 

[baldandbroke]

I don't mind taking one player as a delisted free agent but as long as we stop there. These players were let go by their clubs for a reason. Just like why we let go of our delisted players. We also have a seriously need to bring in youth. We only have one player 21 or under who is over 195cm. That's concerning considering key position players and ruck men take the longest to develop and are the hardest picks to get right.

Agree - but I reckon someone like Mitch Robinson fits the bill. Lots of upside to match the risk

 

[Tex200]

JJ played the first full season of his career in 2014 and even that was in the back of an interrupted pre season due to a serious injury. He played the KPF /2nd ruck role kicking 40 goals.

It behoves us all to keep those facts in mind when assessing his value - it's actually pretty amazing when you think closely about it.

 

[Miss Vanessa]

Most in here would say he is definitely capable of doing more, especially if he placed himself in better positions and used his strong body strength to his advantage. More suited to a team when he is taking the 2nd or 3rd best defender especially.

Perhaps. I guess what I was trying to get at is that unfortunately for Smack, he simply doesn't have the runs on the board for other teams to take a punt on him. If he'd only had even one or two games where he was able to stamp himself on the game and kick a few goals then maybe he'd be worth picking up. As it is he really hasn't done anything of note at AFL level.

Having said that, he sounds like a good guy. I hope he gets another crack at it and does well... I just can't see it happening.

 

[Paladin]

Smack will be rookied by a Melbourne based club bookmark it.

Could see him playing some good footy at a club like Carlton or the Dogs.

 

[GROTTO]

Smack will be rookied by a Melbourne based club bookmark it.

Could see him playing some good footy at a club like Carlton or the Dogs.

Agreed.

I can see Carlton rolling the dice with him, cheap and provides depth for a 3rd tall up forward or backup ruck.