News Women in Gaming

[Jabso]

I think the fact this is a discussion in the industry is a sad state.
Women play games. Women make games. So what?
Not everyone likes the same games as you, not everyone likes it the same way that you do. So what?

I can't believe how precious people are about "MAH GAEMS" when someone like Anita Sarkeesian decides to cast a critical eye over the aspects of how women are portrayed. This is all part of games maturing as an artform. If you think games deserve to be taken seriously you can't cry for journalistic integrity without accepting there will be opinions you don't agree with.

 

[Chief]

I think the fact this is a discussion in the industry is a sad state.
Women play games. Women make games. So what?
Not everyone likes the same games as you, not everyone likes it the same way that you do. So what?

I can't believe how precious people are about "MAH GAEMS" when someone like Anita Sarkeesian decides to cast a critical eye over the aspects of how women are portrayed. This is all part of games maturing as an artform. If you think games deserve to be taken seriously you can't cry for journalistic integrity without accepting there will be opinions you don't agree with.

I think this is the article you're looking for: http://www.clickhole.com/article/summary-gamergate-movement-we-will-immediately-cha-1241

 

[PAdman]

I think the fact this is a discussion in the industry is a sad state.
Women play games. Women make games. So what?
Not everyone likes the same games as you, not everyone likes it the same way that you do. So what?

I can't believe how precious people are about "MAH GAEMS" when someone like Anita Sarkeesian decides to cast a critical eye over the aspects of how women are portrayed. This is all part of games maturing as an artform. If you think games deserve to be taken seriously you can't cry for journalistic integrity without accepting there will be opinions you don't agree with.

I agree with this completely. Although I think you're marginally wrong about the Anita Sarkeesian point, she's been wrong quite a lot in her videos and people point that out but she won't listen to criticism.

The 48% statistic is also meaningless. My nan is included in that because she plays solitaire yet knows nothing about technology or how to even turn on a computer yet she's a gamer.

I think this is the article you're looking for: http://www.clickhole.com/article/summary-gamergate-movement-we-will-immediately-cha-1241

That's a really poor troll article and you know it. Don't bother asking me what's wrong with it, you know damn well that's a giant bait.

 

[Mighty P]

From a study of 3398 individuals. Not a big enough sample size.

You serious? That's a pretty large sample size as far as these kinds of things go. DA is also pretty much the only report regarding gaming in Australia to this extent. Regardless, the female gaming percentage has been rising since 2005 and will continue to do so.

 

[GoldenHodge]

You serious? That's a pretty large sample size as far as these kinds of things go. DA is also pretty much the only report regarding gaming in Australia to this extent. Regardless, the female gaming percentage has been rising since 2005 and will continue to do so.

I realise that not many studies use a huge sample size or are able to, but the population of Australia is 23 million. How can you say with any accuracy "98% of the population have at least one person in their household who plays games". Yeah I know a really large sample size is not feasible or too much work, I'm just saying I'm taking these figures with a grain of salt. Though I don't doubt the amount of women who game is within that range give or take a few percent.

 

[Chief]

That's a really poor troll article and you know it. Don't bother asking me what's wrong with it, you know damn well that's a giant bait.

Yes - Clickhole is a satirical web site. The article is satirical.

 

[Jabso]

That's a really poor troll article and you know it. Don't bother asking me what's wrong with it, you know damn well that's a giant bait.

Yes - Clickhole is a satirical web site. The article is satirical.

It might be a 'troll' but it really nails the hypocrisy the entire movement.

 

[Jabso]

I agree with this completely. Although I think you're marginally wrong about the Anita Sarkeesian point, she's been wrong quite a lot in her videos and people point that out but she won't listen to criticism.

Anita may be wrong but she has every right to present a critique. What kind of criticism are you talking about and does she have to respond? She is just presenting her critique. It doesn't have to be democratic.

As for the numbers it doesn't matter if there is only really 3 female gamers by your definitions. That's not a valid point.

 

[PAdman]

It might be a 'troll' but it really nails the hypocrisy the entire movement.

How?

Anita may be wrong but she has every right to present a critique. What kind of criticism are you talking about and does she have to respond? She is just presenting her critique. It doesn't have to be democratic.

As for the numbers it doesn't matter if there is only really 3 female gamers by your definitions. That's not a valid point.

I didn't say she can't present a critique but when she starts saying incorrect things then that becomes a problem. As for the numbers of course it's a valid point. Saying people are gamers because they've played solitaire computer chess, it's just a meaningless statistic.

 

[Chief]

I didn't say she can't present a critique but when she starts saying incorrect things then that becomes a problem.

Who defines what is incorrect?

As for the numbers of course it's a valid point. Saying people are gamers because they've played solitaire computer chess, it's just a meaningless statistic.

But that comes back to the idea that there is a set of characteristics which makes one "a gamer".

What are those characteristics? How are those characteristics decided upon? Who makes those decisions? What should be done about people who use the word "gamer" incorrectly?

 

[PAdman]

Who defines what is incorrect?

Do you just post for the sake of it? Logic defines what is correct and what is incorrect. If I make a video and say Mario isn't a Nintendo franchise who defines that that's incorrect? Fact and logic.

 

[Chief]

Do you just post for the sake of it?

It's a reasonable question.

"Incorrect" from whose perspective?

Why does anyone have to listen to criticism?

What is the effect on you if, say, Anita Sarkeesian does not listen to criticism?

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Gamergate doesn't have much to do with Anita's videos, it's a seperate issue. The gamegate idea is also about more than one women using sex to get favorable game reviews, it's about paid reviews and media black outs ect...

1. Women are poorly portrayed in video games. Which comes as no surprise given are primarily designed by men.

2. The question of how women are portrayed in video games is genre and game mechanic related. Games with deeper narratives driven by complex characters are probably a better place to critique games. Pathway specific games probably have a better chance of building decent characters up than open world/ sand box games, which in turn have a better chance of building a narrative than purely objective or game play based games. Like Online shooters, Racing games, arcade games, side scrollers ect...

This means simple games with simple game mechanics can't necessarily really portray a whole lot. Projecting ideas and values onto some games is simply a waste of time as other people aren't going to agree with your interpretation.

3. Don't discount art direction. Gaming isn't merely a form of interactive media. It's a form of art and depictions of ideas, worlds and people. As such it should be diverse. Games should go from portraying one truth. One that some might find objectionable to another truth. Censoring of art gets a big no from me.

Who defines what is incorrect?

But that comes back to the idea that there is a set of characteristics which makes one "a gamer".

What are those characteristics? How are those characteristics decided upon? Who makes those decisions? What should be done about people who use the word "gamer" incorrectly?

That's the point. Projecting ideas/ prejudice onto games with simple or little narratives is fraught with the danger of misinterpretation and/or over emphasizing particular idea while passing over or ignoring other issues. Overlooking technical aspects of game design (which are era specific) pretty much made Anita's analysis moot.

A person who "games" and self identifies as a "gamer". Nothing else really needs to be said about it. The types of games played isn't particularly important and there isn't a necessary amount of gaming time required.

 

[PAdman]

It's a reasonable question.

"Incorrect" from whose perspective?

Why does anyone have to listen to criticism?

What is the effect on you if, say, Anita Sarkeesian does not listen to criticism?

The effect on me is that I don't watch her videos. It'd be like watching the news and them telling me the moon has exploded.

If you are going to make an educational series then it needs to be correct. I have no problem with Anita making her videos, I don't care that she got 5x the amount of money she asked for and still didn't release on time, I only care about the truth.

 

[XerxesNorris]

Wow, didn't realise the ratio was that high for female gamers Chief.

When playing online games where you can choose a gender I used to ask myself why guys would choose to play as a female, turns out they are likely girls.

I'm working for an advertising/RP firm and have access to a whole bunch of youtube channels data in the game industry.

Most game channels get 88 to 92% male viewers.

I dont know if that represents the actual gamers with games like sims and mobile game, but just my 50 cents.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

How many male gamers does it take to change a light bulb?




I like the light bulb the way it is. Keep your politics out of it, ****.

 

[Chief]

I'm working for an advertising/RP firm and have access to a whole bunch of youtube channels data in the game industry.

Most game channels get 88 to 92% male viewers.

I dont know if that represents the actual gamers with games like sims and mobile game, but just my 50 cents.

BigFooty's traffic is about 89% male. But we all know that there is a much higher ratio of females at AFL games.

 

[manureid]

BigFooty's traffic is about 89% male. But we all know that there is a much higher ratio of females at AFL games.

And 11% men pretending to be women...amirite?

 

[Chief]

And 11% men pretending to be women...amirite?

That's the mail I'm getting.

 

[Chief]

I'm working for an advertising/RP firm and have access to a whole bunch of youtube channels data in the game industry.

Most game channels get 88 to 92% male viewers.

I dont know if that represents the actual gamers with games like sims and mobile game, but just my 50 cents.

And, I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but YouTube channels are maybe just the way guys keep up with gaming news. YouTube channels are male-dominated, numbers wise. Do these numbers hold up when the channel is female-dominated?

Even the Minecraft videos my kids watch are either exclusively male or the females are guests or lower down the rungs than the main characters or hosts. The girls are (from what I've seen) exclusively noobs or someone's girlfriend tagging along.

When something is "for gamers" it seems implicit that this means "male gamers", otherwise it would explicitly say "female gamers". This maybe is the crux of the kiddie outrage at some of the female/feminist commentary on gaming? A female should stick to being a girl gamer, not commenting on the industry as a whole?

I wonder if our 8bit podcast people have an opinion here? B-Rock do you guys, probably specifically Sharms, have anything thoughts for the discussion?

 

[pantskyle]

8bittotheFuture your thoughts on this? Will you discuss it on a podcast?

 

[8bittotheFuture]

Yeah, I think it makes for a really good topic as there is more to this than the sexism element. The fact that gaming (however you want to define that term) has become mainstream enough to have a social responsibility is interesting in itself.

We will do a dissection on our next episode, which will drop in the next two weeks.

Some interesting points made thus far and I'll keep an eye on this thread. If anyone has any points they want discussed, obviously post them in here.

 

[Mitho]

I asked my wife about this last night and it went something like this.

Me: Honey, do you think of yourself as a gamer? As in do you like video games and play them and whatnot?

Her: * no, and if you turn the PS4 on again tonight while I'm watching BigBrother on this TV, I'll cut you.

Me: What about that Frozen game on your phone where you match up the fruit or whatever.

Her: That's just a timewaster when R (9 month old) is asleep and I'm bored.


So there you have it, playing a mobile game doesn't make you a gamer.


Trust me, my wife is NEVER wrong.

 

[8bittotheFuture]

I asked my wife about this last night and it went something like this.

Me: Honey, do you think of yourself as a gamer? As in do you like video games and play them and whatnot?

Her: **** no, and if you turn the PS4 on again tonight while I'm watching BigBrother on this TV, I'll cut you.

Me: What about that Frozen game on your phone where you match up the fruit or whatever.

Her: That's just a timewaster when R (9 month old) is asleep and I'm bored.


So there you have it, playing a mobile game doesn't make you a gamer.


Trust me, my wife is NEVER wrong.

I lol'd. This one is 100% getting a read out in the podcast hahaha.

 

[pantskyle]

I asked my wife about this last night and it went something like this.

Me: Honey, do you think of yourself as a gamer? As in do you like video games and play them and whatnot?

Her: **** no, and if you turn the PS4 on again tonight while I'm watching BigBrother on this TV, I'll cut you.

Me: What about that Frozen game on your phone where you match up the fruit or whatever.

Her: That's just a timewaster when R (9 month old) is asleep and I'm bored.


So there you have it, playing a mobile game doesn't make you a gamer.


Trust me, my wife is NEVER wrong.

Case closed. I will share this on FB so my feminist auntie can have a read and maybe shut the * up for once. She thought she was an expert on gaming because she could link some articles, refused to acknowledge that it included mobile games. Then ranted about how female gamers had to play as male characters even after I pointed out that I know of many male gamers who play as female characters.