Shane Warne replicators, where are they?

[andy_20]

I remember playing junior Cricket when Warne was in his prime and I remember all the kids who wanted to be the next Shane Warne. They'd all spend hours and hours every week practicing their craft and few of the guys I played with weren't too bad.

My question is, where are these thousands of kids? Did the majority of them just give up because leg spin is extremely hard to bowl?

Do we just have to accept Warne was a once in a generation freak? Have Cricket Australia set a too high standard for our spinners? Do we have enough highly skilled coaches, coaching our young spinners?

 

[Carbine Chaos]

I feel as though young leggies get belted out of the attacks and coaches/captains aren't patient enough with them. Realistically, it is going to happen to them when they first start out.

 

[andy_20]

I feel as though young leggies get belted out of the attacks and coaches/captains aren't patient enough with them. Realistically, it is going to happen to them when they first start out.

The shortened boundaries don't help either IMO. Deep catches during Warnes era, are clearing the rope these days.

 

[Doodlesweaver]

Imagine how Windies fans feel. They haven't replicated any of their star players either. If a proto-Warne turned up now, he'd be dumped after two tests.

 

[James Colorado]

I used to (attempt to) bowl leg spin in junior cricket. Its hard to stick with, because you only have a few overs, so you don't have the time to outthink a batsman, but its also extremely confidence sapping because it takes years of practice to be able to land the ball in the right spot consistently. Every now and then I'd drift a ball into the batsman and have it fizz off the pitch into off stump, or land a googly, but then the next week the same delivery will come out as a long hop that disappears over midwicket. Which do you think happened more often?

Warne was one of a kind, and the fact that he shared his career with McGrath who was also one of a kind is the major factor in that period of success. We'll never see their likes again.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

As others have said, the fact that virtually all junior cricket is very limited in overs works against a young spinner. They get hit. As a result they either have to start bowling medium pace or don't get to bowl.

Its probably much the same when they move into senior ranks as well. They don't get bowled while inexperienced because they get hit around. As a result they tend to develop slowly or drop out of the game.

And attacking spin, whether wrist or finger, is an incredibly difficult task to master.

 

[JUBJUB]

A lot of kids did become the next "Shane Warne" .... fat pie eating beer swilling trawlers of loose women at pubs.

and playing poker til all hours

 

[Ian Dargie]

Do we just have to accept Warne was a once in a generation freak?

No way. There's another bloke with 600 Test wickets in him just waiting for a tap on the shoulder.

The penny drops slowly for some.

 

[Bomberboyokay]

and playing poker til all hours

Meeting bookies and drug cheating.

 

[JUBJUB]

Meeting bookies and drug cheating.

Come on,his mum gave him that pill

 

[t_94]

Because leg spin is exceptionally difficult, probably one of the hardest sporting pursuits to do well. As batters get more proficient rising through the grades, it gets even harder, and captains lose patience and as a result they give it up

 

[OzBomber]

I consider myself one of those 'Shane Warne replicators'. Bowled leg spin all throughout my junior career and took a couple of hattricks and 5fa's. When I was around 13-15 I could turn the ball square even on those wet synthetic pitches. At training the older age groups and seniors players would actually come over and watch me bowl in my net to see how much I could turn it. I considered myself a decent bowler, to the point that I opened the bowling in grand finals because the coaches didn't trust the other bowlers. However what I found was as soon as I got hit for a boundary or two I would be the first bowler to be dragged. Captains would open me in the bowling, bowl me for the opening spell then not bowl me again for the rest the day. The effect of this and a growth spurt impacted on my confidence and ultimately I lost my accuracy and turn as I got older, also the transition to shorter forms of the game, in particular T20s have an impact.

I feel with spinners you need a good coach to guide them from a young age, a lot of the coaches and captains at club level don't really know exactly how to develop and deal these players as they're often parents and the best player in the side.

I miss playing, bowling a great spell of leg spin is more satisfying than any other element of cricket in my opinion. A top spell can be as devastating as a fast bowler flying in. Nothing beats the days when you can place the ball on a 5 cent coin, beat the bat regularly and mix it up with wrong uns top spinners etc. However the lows are an absolute killer.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I heard a spin bowling coach talk about this the other day.

His theory was that Warne's style worked for him because he was a physical freak.

He walked in a few steps and then let rip. Fearsome revs, dip, drift but also some decent speed on the ball. A person with a normal build without the super strong wrists, or Warne's explosiveness walks in and tries to bowl in the same way... loopy moon balls.

Kids get away with it at junior level. Loopy moon balls get wickets aplenty.

They get up to seniors though and their deliveries don't have the shape or energy on them to compete against batters who can use their feet. They get found out and belted out of the attack. For them to bowl at the required speed, they have to sacrifice revs.

They get stuck between bowling fast skidders that stop them being belted out of the attack but they lose the spin/drift that will get them wickets... or loopy slow breaks that spin plenty but any decent batter can destroy if the length is even slightly off.

So we've had a generation of kids trying to copy Warne but without the physical traits to pull it off.

 

[Zach Package]

I heard a spin bowling coach talk about this the other day.

His theory was that Warne's style worked for him because he was a physical freak.

He walked in a few steps and then let rip. Fearsome revs, dip, drift but also some decent speed on the ball. A person with a normal build without the super strong wrists, or Warne's explosiveness walks in and tries to bowl in the same way... loopy moon balls.

Kids get away with it at junior level. Loopy moon balls get wickets aplenty.

They get up to seniors though and their deliveries don't have the shape or energy on them to compete against batters who can use their feet. They get found out and belted out of the attack. For them to bowl at the required speed, they have to sacrifice revs.

They get stuck between bowling fast skidders that stop them being belted out of the attack but they lose the spin/drift that will get them wickets... or loopy slow breaks that spin plenty but any decent batter can destroy if the length is even slightly off.

So we've had a generation of kids trying to copy Warne but without the physical traits to pull it off.

Great post. I was one of those kids who tried to imitate warnie's action down to a tee, which meant that while it looked really pleasing to the eye when I was landing them, it was horribly unsustainable because it's such a difficult thing to pull off consistently, and that was even with the same sort of physical frame that Warnie has.

I've basically come to the conclusion that he's such a freak it's not a thing that can be replicated, which is why there aren't any shane warne replicators in the same way you've got current quicks that have closely modeled their actions on quicks of the past.

Even now I'm a very mixed bag proposition, on the weekend i went for 32 off 7 overs with 4 maidens...they were either on the spot and unplayable, short poo or on a good length but got slogged away to the fence anyway.

 

[carnthemlions]

As others have pointed out, bowling leg spin is very hard.

Most leg spinners tend to fall into 2 categories- inconsistent types who can rip a leg break(Boyce, Muirhead), and guys who don't turn it as much but have better variations(Zampa).
It's hard enough to do one of those things well, Warne did both. I doubt we'll see another one like him for a long time(if ever).
I'm not sure we'll see a leg spinner do anywhere near as well as Kumble did at test level either. They just don't come a long very often.

 

[The Speaker]

The reality is that wrist spin is very difficult.

At best we get two Test quality wrist spinners per generation, normally one, sometimes none.

 

[andy_20]

So we've had a generation of kids trying to copy Warne but without the physical traits to pull it off.

I'm interested to hear his thoughts on what made Macgill the bowler he was because he's build and approach was completely different but he still had great success when he got his opportunities.

 

[Belnakor]

I've basically come to the conclusion that he's such a freak it's not a thing that can be replicated, which is why there aren't any shane warne replicators in the same way you've got current quicks that have closely modeled their actions on quicks of the past.

Steven Smith's action is very similiar to Warne, he is probably the closet we'll get. And Smith bowls at least 2 pies an over (1 when he is "landing them")

I heard a spin bowling coach talk about this the other day.

His theory was that Warne's style worked for him because he was a physical freak.

He walked in a few steps and then let rip. Fearsome revs, dip, drift but also some decent speed on the ball. A person with a normal build without the super strong wrists, or Warne's explosiveness walks in and tries to bowl in the same way... loopy moon balls.

was really interesting watching his masterclass... he could bowl the same deliveries off one step. Freak. He was actually used to unshape the ball for reverse swing in latter part of his career, because his hands are so strong.

I saw Terry Jenner say that when he begun with Warne he was amazed to see that his native delivery drifted in the air, since Warne's stock was part top spinner, part leg spinner. That kind of stuff takes a spin bowler 10 years to master and Warne was doing it when he was 19.

The other thing to consider is the timing, he had

1) a captain who knew how to use him and had the balls to back him early (Taylor)
2) he then later worked alongside Mcgrath who took wickets and kept pressure on the batsman
3) he then played with one of the strongest batting line ups in history (Langer, Hayden, Ponting, Gilchrist etc etc all in the same team)

and then on top of that

1) physical attributes
2) insane ability to concentrate / train such a difficult art (Benaud once told Tendulkar he had potential as a spin bowler - he just needed to practice 4-5 hours a day like Warne - SRT was like nah mate i'll stick to batting then)
3) personality that thrived on pressure

 

[The Speaker]

I'm interested to hear his thoughts on what made Macgill the bowler he was because he's build and approach was completely different but he still had great success when he got his opportunities.

Different type of bowler though - very much a classic leg-spinner who could turn it a mile, but would throw in a a shocker every over.

Warne was a unique leggie who could turn it, was accurate and had variation.

 

[Bucking Beads]

The development of young leg spinners has been hindered by expectation. Warne was a freak. Leg Spinners go for runs but they take wickets. Spinners seem to be used as an option only to keep it tight in Australia as opposed to taking wickets.

 

[getthefooty]

Definitely agree about the fact that captains are often too gun shy with their leggies. Spinners in general need time to figure a batsman out and work into a spell. This is not helped by the fact a lot of junior cricket (even rep games) are very limited overs games. 3 overs for 20 and there's not much motivation to keep a leggie on if you're playing 40 a side.

 

[Bradesmaen]

Warne did have big brawny shoulders and thick wrists. Good post.

David Boon should have been a great leggy then.

 

[Pera]

Have you tried bowling spin on the synthetic s**t we gotta play on in the Northern suburbs? Miss your length ever so slightly and its a lollipop for the taking. Everyone bowls pace.

India have a similar problem but with they're quickies. Why would you want to bowl pace over there when the pitches provide more for spin?

 

[Bucking Beads]

Young spinners with any kind of talent should be playing at clubs with turf pitches. My local area has kids playing on turf from under 12"s

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Leggies need bowling, a lot of bowling. Can't see how it's possible when most of the cricket they play these days are limited overs.