Unofficial Preview The way too early Round 1, 2015 discussion thread

[MarkP]

Anyways Essendon always seem to start the season on fire and we look like snails, obviously the major talking point in the offseason will be ASADA etc.. havent been up to date with it but last i heard they can take a deal in the offseason? and be available for 2015?

No idea about the last bit but you are spot on about the first. The bloody druggies have awesome starts to the season recently as a general rule. Us on the other hand for whatever reason not so good.

I still cannot get my head around how ordinary we seem to start - maybe it is perception more than reality but that first month gives me headaches thinking about it.

 

[bedford]

I wish this thread never started or should be closed, its too depressing after what we've been through

 

[MarkP]

Never did I say that.

All I said if form warrants it I would blood some kids without being stupid. The team that ran out on GF will not win the 2015 GF but that's totally my opinion

Shaw a star ( never been a star ), spare me the bloke is finished but been a fantastic pick up. And Pyke isn't a star but a solid ruck.

Drop probably our best ball user in Macca , I think not.

I hear ya.

But that's the interwebz.

Like a player = you reckon he is the Brownlow favourite.

Don't rate him that much = you hate him, he is a spud delist immediately.

Totally agree that the 2015 team needs to change a few things. Since 2012 we have fallen over the line against the Hawks once when they arguably had everything go wrong against them. I truly though we could match them in the box and on the field.

September beat that out of me.

Sure we will be top 4 this year all things being equal. We have a decently coached, well drilled side with bone fide stars in it. Probably make the big dance if we line up the right side of the draw. Winning it against the Hawks with essentially the same game style and cattle. Nah. Can't see it.

I tell you what though. I would rather try a few things and get beaten than blindly stumble along thinking we can do it because of some bullshit motivation of being absolutely embarrassed by them. Doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different outcome is insanity defined.

Be interesting to see what Horse thinks. The ROK thing was unexpected and showed some nuts, I just hope he can grow. I don;t think Clarkson will sit back and enjoy the glow too long and their leaders don't appear to be the types that will take complacency lying down.

i am really looking forward to seeing what we can bring, still optimistic but with a dose of sober realism this time around.

 

[Punts]

I hear ya.

But that's the interwebz.

Like a player = you reckon he is the Brownlow favourite.

Don't rate him that much = you hate him, he is a spud delist immediately.

Totally agree that the 2015 team needs to change a few things. Since 2012 we have fallen over the line against the Hawks once when they arguably had everything go wrong against them. I truly though we could match them in the box and on the field.

September beat that out of me.

Sure we will be top 4 this year all things being equal. We have a decently coached, well drilled side with bone fide stars in it. Probably make the big dance if we line up the right side of the draw. Winning it against the Hawks with essentially the same game style and cattle. Nah. Can't see it.

I tell you what though. I would rather try a few things and get beaten than blindly stumble along thinking we can do it because of some bullshit motivation of being absolutely embarrassed by them. Doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different outcome is insanity defined.

Be interesting to see what Horse thinks. The ROK thing was unexpected and showed some nuts, I just hope he can grow. I don;t think Clarkson will sit back and enjoy the glow too long and their leaders don't appear to be the types that will take complacency lying down.

i am really looking forward to seeing what we can bring, still optimistic but with a dose of sober realism this time around.

Some seem to think that we loss the GF just due to an attitude problem , well that's bullshit imo we are simple NOT GOOD ENOUGH to match it with them.

R18 I said on here that they had more upside than us as they dismantled us kicking 9 goals in 10 mins and completely dominating the 2nd half and some said Punts you idiot etc etc we were missing Hanners and a 33yo HBF while they were missing Lake , Cyril , Spanger.

Also heard on here that we wanted Cyril to play on GF day because he was under done , turned out well.

I sooner we come to terms that we are not good enough to match them atm the better will be.

As I said if it means some minor positional changes ( Reid going back to learn and help Ted or Jones for Shaw etc etc or have A PLAN B IN THE COACHES BOX ) and some minor team changes to get better well im all for it. Add some class to that mid group with either Heeney/Hewett if form warrants it.

As you said I would rather watch Jones/Rohan or Reid get out muscled and make mistakes and learn next year than watch Shaw etc at 33 struggle to get a kick and end up playing in the NEAFL like ROK.

Who would have thought that Harry/Lloyd would play in a GF , that's why I can see Heeney/Hewett/Nankervis having a impact in 2015.

We got done by 10 GOALS NOT 10 POINTS and the only difference imo between the GF and R18 is they played 4 quarters in the GF so to think that we don't need some changes to get better ( more so maybe coaches box ) is just silly.



Sorry for derail the tread

 

[bedford]

Bullshit , it WAS in the head

 

[bungee]

Never did I say that.

All I said if form warrants it I would blood some kids without being stupid. The team that ran out on GF will not win the 2015 GF but that's totally my opinion

Shaw a star ( never been a star ), spare me the bloke is finished but been a fantastic pick up. And Pyke isn't a star but a solid ruck.

Drop probably our best ball user in Macca , I think not.

Shaw and Pyke stars compared to the careers that most "next big thing" juniors will ever see

 

[bungee]

So they'll be more motivated - IE playing in a Grand Final wasn't enough motivation for the players? That's utterly terrifying.

The guys clearly bought the favourites line. You're right that playing in a GF should be enough but losing one and positively stinking is not the sort of thing that goes down well with our boys. The will be more than a bit motivated. They'll be gagging for it.

 

[bungee]

Yer and Clarksons/Hawks record in previous games that there starting to build over Horse/Swans must be in the HEAD also.

Only team to have kicked over 100 points on multiple times against us.

Have spanked us since 2012.

Excuses excuses

The biggest win for me this year Punts will be you deciding to go and bag another team.

For the record Eagles spanked us for a time too. Now we spank them. Why are you so obsessed with spanking ?

 

[Punts]

The biggest win for me this year Punts will be you deciding to go and bag another team.

For the record Eagles spanked us for a time too. Now we spank them. Why are you so obsessed with spanking ?

Its not bagging its facts that there record over us is very good.

 

[Punts]

Shaw and Pyke stars compared to the careers that most "next big thing" juniors will ever see

Might as well send Jones etc etc off then I guess ( not saying there stars ) and hope Shaw etc keep going for ever.

Do you watch much of the 2s

 

[bedford]

I leave it to Grim to talk about the 2's as he has been a constant for a few seasons, its hard to judge them when your in Melbourne or overseas

 

[Punts]

Seen my fair share of the 2s this year and previous so I can make my own call but its only my opinion.

Grim does a fantastic job though with his updates on players etc and does follow them very closely

 

[bedford]

So that's why I trust his judgement over others

 

[swansfan51]

The guys clearly bought the favourites line. You're right that playing in a GF should be enough but losing one and positively stinking is not the sort of thing that goes down well with our boys. The will be more than a bit motivated. They'll be gagging for it.

I know our team is a special flower that is absolutely different from every other team in the league, but lets look at what has happened the year after a flogging in recent history.

2000 - Melbourne lose by 60. The next year they finish 11th.
2003 - Collingwood lose by 50. The next year they finish 13th.
2004 - Brisbane lose by 40. The next year they finish 11th.
2007 - Port Adelaide lose by 119. The next year they finish 13th.
2010 - St Kilda lose by 56. The next year they finish 6th.

 

[S120]

I know our team is a special flower that is absolutely different from every other team in the league, but lets look at what has happened the year after a flogging in recent history.

2000 - Melbourne lose by 60. The next year they finish 11th.
2003 - Collingwood lose by 50. The next year they finish 13th.
2004 - Brisbane lose by 40. The next year they finish 11th.
2007 - Port Adelaide lose by 119. The next year they finish 13th.
2010 - St Kilda lose by 56. The next year they finish 6th.

That is a genuinely compelling list.

I would add though that the 2003, 2004 and 2010 sides were all relatively old sides at the end of their run of multiple years of being top 4 sides. The 2000 and 2007 sides were one-off good teams. As in they both kinda came from nowhere to do very well in their respective seasons and that season ended up being somewhat of an anomaly when compared to the seasons immediately before and after.

I do think this Swans list is in a much better place than any of those 5 above. I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that we will go to the GF again or even be top 2 at the end of the regular season again, but I do think there's a very good chance we will buck the trend seen above.

 

[swansfan51]

For those that like optimism bordering on desperation, I will add that West Coast came back from a flogging in 1991 to win the next year's Grand Final, though they had some pretty fantastic list concessions and were a new club.

Also Geelong got belted in a Grand Final in 1994 (by that West Coast team) and recovered to get absolutely belted again in the Grand Final in 1995.

 

[ScrewInStuds]

I'm full of optimism firmly rooted in reality. Everyone seems to agree that we got smashed in the midfield in the GF; well guess what- the average age of players rotating through Hawthorn's midfield was 26.8, our was 25.1, that's almost a 2 year difference! You want to talk about the apparent lack of leadership in the middle? The Hawks had three mids in the 30-32 year age bracket, and the swans had none. No wonder we got spanked. I keep saying this and nobody will listen: 2016 is when our window opens in earnest, provided that four things occur: we get a dominant ruck to replace pyke, Reid transitions to the backline well, and Grundy sticks around, and we get some more afl ready kpd depth (whether that's youth coming through or someone traded in). Do you want to know why there's such a big scream about cola and the academies? It's because we're going into GFs as favourites while we're still in our transitional phase. Starting 2016 the top four will be made up of NSW, QLD and SA teams for 3 to 4 years, and that scares the s**t out of the AFL.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Is there much difference in getting flogged in a prelim than a Grand final?

 

[swansfan51]

Is there much difference in getting flogged in a prelim than a Grand final?

No idea, CBF looking up all the stats a 2nd time but someone else is welcome to. Ask the Bulldogs, they seem the be the experts at losing prelims.

 

[RUNVS]

I'm full of optimism firmly rooted in reality. Everyone seems to agree that we got smashed in the midfield in the GF; well guess what- the average age of players rotating through Hawthorn's midfield was 26.8, our was 25.1, that's almost a 2 year difference! You want to talk about the apparent lack of leadership in the middle? The Hawks had three mids in the 30-32 year age bracket, and the swans had none. No wonder we got spanked. I keep saying this and nobody will listen: 2016 is when our window opens in earnest, provided that four things occur: we get a dominant ruck to replace pyke, Reid transitions to the backline well, and Grundy sticks around, and we get some more afl ready kpd depth (whether that's youth coming through or someone traded in). Do you want to know why there's such a big scream about cola and the academies? It's because we're going into GFs as favourites while we're still in our transitional phase. Starting 2016 the top four will be made up of NSW, QLD and SA teams for 3 to 4 years, and that scares the s**t out of the AFL.

Difference being I think Hawthorn will easily be able to restock their midfield using free agency.

 

[Number37]

So you've given up 2015 before we've fired a shot. We're already forbidden from trading, so let's chop away half our list, put all the babies up to play seniors and in a few games they'll all be stars of the calibre of Ted, Goodes, Pyke, Shaw & Macca and ready to win a GF, because every BF fan worth the bullshit in their trousers knows that each 'get-aboard-the-bandwagon' recruit turns into a star, because that's what happens in freakin' banana brain fan fairy land right ?

(Pauses for breath....)

Let's have a little reality check here Punts.

More so than any players, losing the GF in 2014 will be the single biggest factor to help us win the GF in 2015. That loss, and how it felt, was an expensive and emotional lesson for those 22. It cost us that GF to remind the players and the coaching group just how hard you have to play and how much you have to be prepared to sacrifice to win. That 2012 GF team was (on paper) probably the best team the Swans have put on the park in living memory (*Bedford's memory excepted). It wasn't a lack of talent that cost us.

Look at the team that ran out for the Hawks in 2012, lost the GF and came back hard enough to win B2B. Look at the Eagles after 2005. Look at Geelong after 2008.

The best guys to win us a GF are emotionally scarred, pissed off, revenge driven, battle hardened talented players with a serious axe to grind. Losing by so much makes the motivation to regain some face all the more compelling.

Do you seriously want to defenestrate half the team and then slam closed our premiership window ?

Have half of BF been on the piss during the off-season ?

Did you know that killing and eating a swan is considered treason in the UK ?

Bloody loonies*.

*Complain to Bedford as usual.

Loony. Utter raving loony. Are you completely mad ? Are you insane ? Have you lost your marbles and replaced them with dogs testicles ? Eaten from the tree of wisdom and vomited it all back up ? Spilt the nectar of wisdom down the front of your trousers ? You demonstrate all the lunkhead wit of a complete and rabid goon.

Happy f..ing big mad, time to head off to the asylum, birthday. Mr Nuts*.

Of all the nimcompooted, lummoxing, clodhopperish gibberish on this board this post takes the cake. Then it ices the cake, fills it with cream (non-dairy), sprinkles it with fairy dust, lights the candles, throws petrol on it, grins hysterically and throws great flaming chunks of it at terrified children while spitting froth through its teeth.


*Please forward all fan mail (or complaints) to Bedford c/o Swans bored, Bigfooty.

 

[bedford]

I don't know which one of you is the more insane

 

[ScrewInStuds]

Difference being I think Hawthorn will easily be able to restock their midfield using free agency.

I agree, but I don't think that they'll stay top 4 while they're doing it- players like Mitchell, Hodge, and Burgoyne don't just grow on trees. Hawthorn need to absolutely nail free agency over the next 2-3 years, good thing that they don't have to worry about competing with the Swans for players during that time due to our ban...

 

[The King!]

Who gives a flying feck about round 1 right now

 

[bungee]

I know our team is a special flower that is absolutely different from every other team in the league, but lets look at what has happened the year after a flogging in recent history.

2000 - Melbourne lose by 60. The next year they finish 11th.
2003 - Collingwood lose by 50. The next year they finish 13th.
2004 - Brisbane lose by 40. The next year they finish 11th.
2007 - Port Adelaide lose by 119. The next year they finish 13th.
2010 - St Kilda lose by 56. The next year they finish 6th.

2005 WC lost then won next year
2008 Geelong " "
2012 Hawthorn " " (and the next)

I think these are better examples of teams who were on the rise and had firmly open premiership windows.

You've selectively quoted the ones who were either i) on the slide and making one last gasp (Bris, Pies, StK, Port) or ii) making a lucky appearance (Melb)