No Oppo Supporters CAS hands down guilty verdict - Players appealing - Dank shot - no opposition - (cont in pt.2)

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lysp

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If I was buying "supplements", I would feel much more comfortable if they came from China than some back-street in Fitzroy.....

Just following on from rines post, the place i get most of my supplements from explains the Chinese situation really well:

http://www.bulknutrients.com.au/choice/amino-acids-faqs/193

Q) Are your amino acids sourced from China?


A) Yes, however so are those supplied by 99% of companies - so in other words, the amino acids you have used or are currently using from other companies are almost surely manufactured in China. The popular brands located in Australia, NZ, U.S, Europe etc almost exclusively use Chinese Sourced Amino Acids, this includes large popular brands (with very expensive pricing) as well as generic brands.


Some people assume that as they are buying from a name brand and paying a premium, they are getting aminos sourced from elsewhere. This is not the case - unless the supplier specifically details that their amino acids are sourced from elsewhere.


If you have been using amino acids or products containing them (pre workout, recovery formulas from leading brands) it is very likely you are consuming Chinese made amino acids.


Q) Isn’t everything made in China poorer quality?


A) Certainly not, although goods manufactured in China have always had a bit of a reputation of being ‘cheap rip offs’ over the last decade China has become far more westernised. Chinese companies realise that to supply Western markets they need to be able to produce high quality goods, and we have been very carefully selected our suppliers to ensure we are buying the highest grade products – all our Amino Acids are 100% pharmaceutical grade.


Q) Why do you use Chinese Suppliers?


Chinese pharmaceutical amino acids are utilised by companies as they are world class and very cost effective. These amino acids (the same ones used by us as well as the major companies) are all made to the highest pharmaceutical standards. Many years ago, manufacture of aminos in other countries was more common however now the standard from China is so high, very few companies use aminos sourced elsewhere.


Millions of dollars have been spent designing these state of the art facilities, with hundreds of tonnes being shipped to the U.S and Europe ever month.


Q) Do you guarantee your amino acids?


A) Absolutely. We have been dealing with the same suppliers/manufacturers for over 5 years and before accepting any batch we scrutinise all assay reports. We have had batches independently tested in the past, and the analysis from the independent tests are always completely consistent with those from the suppliers.


Unlike virtually every other company we are happy to supply spec sheets to our customers if you would like to see them. Best of all, we have actually visited some of the factories where our amino acids are made. The standards here are amazing in pharmaceuticals, we just wish they allowed us to take photos!


Our guarantee is that the quality of our amino acids are equal or better than anything you will source elsewhere - irrespective of price. If you are not 100% satisfied with the quality, we are happy to offer a full refund.

 
China is used because labour there is still dirt cheap compared to Western countries. It's not that mysterious, and "oohh, Shanghai factory" being used as some sort of red flag is absolute rubbish.
 

cymarak

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China is used because labour there is still dirt cheap compared to Western countries. It's not that mysterious, and "oohh, Shanghai factory" being used as some sort of red flag is absolute rubbish.
"oohh, drugs"
"oohh, supplements"
"oohh, injections"
"oohh, off-site injections"
"oohh, calves blood"
"oohh, 'experimental environment'"
etc.

These are terms people who are trying to paint a negative picture throw around as if somehow they are a smoking gun and clear evidence of guilt, but when you take a step back, there's nothing damning there at all in those terms.

The correct response in each case is "so what ?".
 
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"oohh, drugs"
"oohh, supplements"
"oohh, injections"
"oohh, off-site injections"
"oohh, calves blood"
"oohh, 'experimental environment'"
etc.

These are terms people who are trying to paint a negative picture throw around as if somehow they are a smoking gun and clear evidence of guilt, but when you take a step back, there's nothing damning there at all in those terms.

The correct response in each case is "so what ?".

It's the way people are being conditioned these days,if everything we watch/read is painted as bad then it must be true much like when they said eating white bread can give you cancer.
 

cymarak

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If players cop bans could Hird still stay as coach?
Of course he could - even if the club fires him, they can't hold a gun to his head and stop him coaching games can they ? ;)

Being serious, he definitely could stay - there's nothing in any rule that requires him to stand down / be removed. Whether he would stay is unknown, as it would depend on his mindset and that of the board's.

Whether PEDs were 'proven' to have been administered would probably come into play, in the board's mindset at least (of course players can get bans without anything being proven - i.e. deals).
 
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China is used because labour there is still dirt cheap compared to Western countries. It's not that mysterious, and "oohh, Shanghai factory" being used as some sort of red flag is absolute rubbish.

I've already sourced my families Christmas presents from Aliexpress- The low low prices and free delivery were only part of the reason though- you should see their PEDS!!
 

cymarak

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Suspect the AFL would step in cancel his accreditation/whatever & force him out.
Surely they couldn't do that unless he's personally found guilty of some charge ?

Well, they probably could do that - ultimate power, no accountability, broad rules to do whatever they like, etc. - but would they dare to do that ? It's not as if it could be covered up and hidden from general scrutiny ...
 
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Surely they couldn't do that unless he's personally found guilty of some charge ?

Well, they probably could do that - ultimate power, no accountability, broad rules to do whatever they like, etc. - but would they dare to do that ? It's not as if it could be covered up and hidden from general scrutiny ...


Dunno, but wouldn't surprise if they instigate another round of 'bring game into disrepute' charges or the like if players get suspended. I really cannot see the AFL doing nothing if players are suspended but I doubt players will be.
 

cymarak

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Dunno, but wouldn't surprise if they instigate another round of 'bring game into disrepute' charges or the like if players get suspended.
The only way the AFL could reasonably defend that move would be if there were new evidence available now that wasn't available when they had the first crack at BTGID charges last year.

The 'new' evidence would obviously have to paint a pretty bad picture of Hird's actions in particular, beyond just poor governance - i.e. it would have to be gross misconduct by Hird himself. Any evidence of misconduct by anyone else - e.g. Dank, Robinson, etc. - wouldn't be relevant (as Hird's already been punished for alleged poor governance).

That, or they'd have to actually charge Hird with a doping violation.

Any which way, it's safe to say Hird would be getting lawyers involved.
 
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The only way the AFL could reasonably defend that move would be if there were new evidence available now that wasn't available when they had the first crack at BTGID charges last year.

The 'new' evidence would obviously have to paint a pretty bad picture of Hird's actions in particular, beyond just poor governance - i.e. it would have to be gross misconduct by Hird himself. Any evidence of misconduct by anyone else - e.g. Dank, Robinson, etc. - wouldn't be relevant (as Hird's already been punished for alleged poor governance).

That, or they'd have to actually charge Hird with a doping violation.

Any which way, it's safe to say Hird would be getting lawyers involved.

Yeah

Can see Hird getting lawyers involved if he's removed by force because players cop bans hoping it doesn't get to that though.
 
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The only way the AFL could reasonably defend that move would be if there were new evidence available now that wasn't available when they had the first crack at BTGID charges last year.

The 'new' evidence would obviously have to paint a pretty bad picture of Hird's actions in particular, beyond just poor governance - i.e. it would have to be gross misconduct by Hird himself. Any evidence of misconduct by anyone else - e.g. Dank, Robinson, etc. - wouldn't be relevant (as Hird's already been punished for alleged poor governance).

That, or they'd have to actually charge Hird with a doping violation.

Any which way, it's safe to say Hird would be getting lawyers involved.


Maybe it would follow that if players do go ASADA then turn their attention to the support staff - Hird, Dank, Robinson, Reid, maybe Bomber for trafficking or whatever else they have the power to prosecute them for , thereby forcing the AFL to face the issue?
 
Yeah

Can see Hird getting lawyers involved if he's removed by force because players cop bans hoping it doesn't get to that though.
Given that Hird has said he'd walk if players are suspended, probably not.
 
I know that's what he said, but we do need some stability
If players cop suspension stability is out the window as it is.

A new coach coming on board would be the least of our problems.
 

Go_Blues!

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I'm going to ask this question because you are obviously well versed in this situation and feel free to not answer...

how and when do YOU see this ending? what's the most likely outcome?

I know you can't make a 100% informed opinion because as it seems the landscape changes amost daily but I'm
curious..

Well, I don't like to speculate on this board and really, I have no idea. I don't know if ASADA have enough evidence to prosecute the case but they believe they have whilst the lawyers representing the players, it would seem, have a different view. I think that the other complicating factor is that the standard of proof, "comfortable satisfaction", has never been tested in this country and is not well defined. I think that the most likely outcome is that the players do a deal with ASADA. If this does go to a tribunal, the players will either get a two year ban or will get off. I think making a deal is the best chance of getting an outcome that is balanced,
 
Jun 9, 2007
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Well, I don't like to speculate on this board and really, I have no idea. I don't know if ASADA have enough evidence to prosecute the case but they believe they have whilst the lawyers representing the players, it would seem, have a different view. I think that the other complicating factor is that the standard of proof, "comfortable satisfaction", has never been tested in this country and is not well defined. I think that the most likely outcome is that the players do a deal with ASADA. If this does go to a tribunal, the players will either get a two year ban or will get off. I think making a deal is the best chance of getting an outcome that is balanced,
There is no real Justice in accepting deals. A bribe, to accept guilt, to appease a result-hungry prosecutor, when you don't believe you've done anything wrong, is a farcical representation of 'justice'.
 
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There is no real Justice in accepting deals. A bribe, to accept guilt, to appease a result-hungry prosecutor, when you don't believe you've done anything wrong, is a farcical representation of 'justice'.
I like the fact that The Scales likes this. Fits nicely with the context of my rant.
 

expires

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Well, I don't like to speculate on this board and really, I have no idea. I don't know if ASADA have enough evidence to prosecute the case but they believe they have whilst the lawyers representing the players, it would seem, have a different view. I think that the other complicating factor is that the standard of proof, "comfortable satisfaction", has never been tested in this country and is not well defined. I think that the most likely outcome is that the players do a deal with ASADA. If this does go to a tribunal, the players will either get a two year ban or will get off. I think making a deal is the best chance of getting an outcome that is balanced,

Carlton supporters have a very strange view of "balanced".
 

MightyDon

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China is used because labour there is still dirt cheap compared to Western countries. It's not that mysterious, and "oohh, Shanghai factory" being used as some sort of red flag is absolute rubbish.
No different to Fijian factory making Ports jumpers.
 
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