No Oppo Supporters CAS hands down guilty verdict - Players appealing - Dank shot - no opposition - (cont in pt.2)

[Go_Blues!]

Carlton supporters have a very strange view of "balanced".

Actually you are right (if I am correctly detecting the sarcasm!!). I guess my feeling is that I do not want the players to sit out long suspensions even if they are guilty and the case can be proven. If they are innocent, I do not want them to sit out any suspension. Thing is, I have no idea what was or was not taken nor any clear idea of how the standard of proof is going to play out. So if I can rephrase my previous post and say that if there are to be suspensions, and that the players believe they did ingest banned substances, I hope they take a deal to ensure that no significant time is spent suspended. If your players do not believe they ingested banned substances, I hope they fight the charges and that justice is served by finding them not guilty.

 

[The Scales]

Are you insinuating that The Scales represents...the scales of justice and fairness?

Boom boom. Don't worry guys, I won't let the door hit my arse on the way out.

And I wear my jocks on the outside of me trousers to boot !!

 

[Harlequin]

And I wear my jocks on the outside of me trousers to boot !!

Hope they're clean!

 

[DonsRule]

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl...rss&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

Mark Thompson set to disregard AFL fine by Friday deadline

• Jon Ralph
• Herald Sun
• October 30, 2014 9:00PM

MARK Thompson seems likely to flout the AFL’s requirement that he pay his $30,000 AFL fine by Friday afternoon’s deadline.

Thompson was hit with the fine over Essendon’s governance issues last August, but the league last night confirmed 14 months on, it was yet to be paid.

The Herald Sun broke the story this year, with Thompson refusing to pay in protest at the AFL’s penalties.

FOOTY DOPING WITNESS FACES DRUGS CHARGES

HIRD: MY RELATIONSHIP WITH BOMBER IS FINE

AFL spokesman Patrick Keane said on Thursday night of Thompson’s failure to pay the fine: “We will give him until tomorrow.’’

“He has got until the end of tomorrow, so we will let him have that time.”




He has told confidantes he is reluctant to pay the fine.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl...rss&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

 

[Beerfish]

 

[Howard Moon]

They are looking at me yeh? now? how bout now?

 

[westking]

Pretty sure he will reluctantly pay, but like at five minutes past midnight just to be a pita.
But if he doesnt pay and wants to escalate the situation again I hope he has some sorta plan.

 

[Howard Moon]

Plan: walk away.

 

[westking]

Plan: walk away.

Just maybe. And if he does it may be a very interesting departure let's hope so anyway.

 

[expires]

Actually you are right (if I am correctly detecting the sarcasm!!). I guess my feeling is that I do not want the players to sit out long suspensions even if they are guilty and the case can be proven. If they are innocent, I do not want them to sit out any suspension. Thing is, I have no idea what was or was not taken nor any clear idea of how the standard of proof is going to play out. So if I can rephrase my previous post and say that if there are to be suspensions, and that the players believe they did ingest banned substances, I hope they take a deal to ensure that no significant time is spent suspended. If your players do not believe they ingested banned substances, I hope they fight the charges and that justice is served by finding them not guilty.

I did consider your angle was the length of a player's career. Sort of a bit like you, though. How do you look your self in a mirror posting in an Essendon supporter only thread? How would Jobe explain to his grand kids he took a deal to kick leather on the big stage? How do you explain to your grand children you have a greater love for Essendon than Carlton? You can have a bit of fun but in life there is such things as integrity.

 

[The Scales]

Hope they're clean!

I've been known to be careless eating calamari - occasionally there has been the odd squid mark.

 

[yaco55]

China is used because labour there is still dirt cheap compared to Western countries. It's not that mysterious, and "oohh, Shanghai factory" being used as some sort of red flag is absolute rubbish.

The labour is cheaper but a handful of American manufacturing companies have back to America - They've found that Its not that much cheaper to produce in China - Bear in mind that labor costs ( manufacturing and the like ) are cheap in America,compared to other western countries.

Quality of goods - My understanding is that China ( unofficially ) has two types of production - For local consumption and overseas consumption - My experience is that goods made for overseas consumption are of a much higher standard than goods made for local consumption.

 

[Matthew_Lloyd]

Witness Shane Charter promised no human use of peptide at Essendon

• CHIP LE GRAND
• THE AUSTRALIAN
• OCTOBER 31, 2014 12:00AM

ASADA’s star witness in the Essendon peptides case, Shane Charter. Source: News Limited

THE Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority’s star witness in the case against 34 current and former Essendon footballers gave a written assurance that no peptides imported from a Chinese biochemical company would be used on people.

Vincent Xu, the global sales manager of GL Biochem, one of the world’s largest suppliers of peptides, has revealed to The Australian the details of his dealings with Shane Charter, a self-styled fitness and anti-ageing consultant at the centre of the Essendon supplements saga.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...tide-at-essendon/story-fnca0u4y-1227107778849

Found this part interesting:

Mr Dank is separately accused by ASADA of administering, possessing and trafficking in a banned substance at Essendon and the Gold Coast and covering up its use.

 

[yaco55]

Suspect the AFL would step in cancel his accreditation/whatever & force him out.

Think its more likely that Hird has a clause in his contract to guard against any such happening.

 

[The Prosecutor]

Found this part interesting:

The GC part is known, with Bock being the player under the gun.

 

[yaco55]

Well, I don't like to speculate on this board and really, I have no idea. I don't know if ASADA have enough evidence to prosecute the case but they believe they have whilst the lawyers representing the players, it would seem, have a different view. I think that the other complicating factor is that the standard of proof, "comfortable satisfaction", has never been tested in this country and is not well defined. I think that the most likely outcome is that the players do a deal with ASADA. If this does go to a tribunal, the players will either get a two year ban or will get off. I think making a deal is the best chance of getting an outcome that is balanced,

There is no way that the players will get 2 years if found guilty at a tribunal.

 

[VelvetSledge]

Right. Everyone done?

Back on track please.

 

[2one2]

Thompson will pay the fine at several seconds to midnight just to be on the cutting edge of fine payment #unbecoming

 

[letstayunited]

Well, I don't like to speculate on this board and really, I have no idea. I don't know if ASADA have enough evidence to prosecute the case but they believe they have whilst the lawyers representing the players, it would seem, have a different view. I think that the other complicating factor is that the standard of proof, "comfortable satisfaction", has never been tested in this country and is not well defined. I think that the most likely outcome is that the players do a deal with ASADA. If this does go to a tribunal, the players will either get a two year ban or will get off. I think making a deal is the best chance of getting an outcome that is balanced,

2 year ban? Are you serious? Not a chance

 

[Go_Blues!]

I did consider your angle was the length of a player's career. Sort of a bit like you, though. How do you look your self in a mirror posting in an Essendon supporter only thread? How would Jobe explain to his grand kids he took a deal to kick leather on the big stage? How do you explain to your grand children you have a greater love for Essendon than Carlton? You can have a bit of fun but in life there is such things as integrity.

Not sure exactly what this means but if you think I am supporting Essendon, you are totally wrong. I seriously hate Essendon but I do have a lot of respect for some of the posters and the mods on this board. Look, I may be in the minority but I believe that the "Essendon saga" is much bigger than Essendon and that it affects all AFL clubs and supporters; that is not to say that I think that many clubs were engaging in similar behavior, although that is my view. More importantly, I think that the outcome of this case will resonate around our great game for many years and if players are suspended, then it will have a profound impact on football.

I posted for a while on the HTB but found it not only frustrating but I got threatened by some tools on that board because I was asking questions about their logic and the claims they were making. I did not feel particularly disturbed by the threats but I did realize that I had no interest in talking to these people. So I came on here before it was an "Essendon only" thread and started talking to some of you guys. This has been the only forum that I can engage in an issue that I think impacts all football supporters in an intelligent and informed way. I think I show respect but I will desist from posting on here as soon as someone makes a request that I desist. If you would like to make that request then you should feel welcome to do so. This is your board and I am a guest here. I will entirely comply with the wishes of this board.

 

[Go_Blues!]

There is no way that the players will get 2 years if found guilty at a tribunal.

I actually think that this is the only outcome that is possible with a guilty finding at a tribunal. It is very rare that a player gets less than 2 years and only happens with significant assistance to ASADA. I think that Essendon played the court case in a really astute way in having players representatives present but they were not a party in the case. This may save your boys but I do think that the guidelines are very clear, if found guilty in a tribunal they will get a minimum of 12 months. It may get backdated and the sentence may get suspended but these are the only mechanisms available to the tribunal. However, if this does go to a tribunal, I believe the most likely outcome is that your players will get cleared.

 

[Go_Blues!]

2 year ban? Are you serious? Not a chance

Look, I don't believe there will be a two year ban but if this does go to tribunal, the bans will be severe. I don't believe that there is mechanism currently available to the tribunal that will see a ban of any less than one year. Of course this may get back-dated but I really do not feel that is likely. Remember that bizarrely, Saad got an 18 month suspension that was appealed to 2 years. To me, what Saad did is petty. What Essendon may or may not have done is very material but the players were not to blame. I would be gutted for this great game if they served long suspensions. THIS WAS NOT THEIR FAULT. Of course, there is a very strong case to say that the East German Athletes who were subjected to a government sponsored doping regime were not to blame either and they got life-long banns. I would like to think that we have all moved on enough to understand that intent matters. I dont know what was taken but I know that if anything was, there was no intent from the players.

If I can also add, that if Essendon really set out to cheat, they would have taken better drugs. hGH or EPO would be a clear intent to cheat. Why would anyone take a banned substance that gives so little gain but is subject to the same sanctions as "real" PED's. Sorry, I am just not buying the story. It seems to me that either nothing banned was taken or if it was taken, they were being led by fools who did not understand the code. I think perhaps that you hired a sports scientist who did not understand what he was doing where he clearly had responsibilities to be across this stuff.

 

[MightyDon]

Found this part interesting:

Mr Dank is separately accused by ASADA of administering, possessing and trafficking in a banned substance at Essendon and the Gold Coast and covering up its use.

Waits patiently for gold coast to receive sanctions for bringing the game into disrepute.

 

[Barry Roundhouse]

Waits patiently for gold coasts to receive sanctions for bringing the game into disrepute.

 

[rumply]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...tide-at-essendon/story-fnca0u4y-1227107778849

In a blow to the defence case of the AFL players, Mr Xu said the only Thymosin peptide supplied by GL Biochem to Mr Charter was Thymosin Beta 4.

“The Thymosin we synthesis (sic) and supply always refers to Thymosin Beta 4,’’ he said.

“The peptide products (such as Thymosin Beta 4) are for research use only, not for human use. We sold our peptide products to Shane Charter after he signed the non-human-use agreement.’’


Still doesn't definitively put TB4 at the club & in players veins but unless there is some kind of proof for the supply of legal Thymomodulin, I guess it would make it tough for any players that told ASADA they believed they were given 'thymosin'.


Chip Le Grand ‏@Melbchief 1h1 hour ago
What Shane Charter promised peptide giant GL Biochem at start of Essendon saga. http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/afl/witness-shane-charter-promised-no-human-use-of-peptide-at-essendon/story-fnca0u4y-1227107778849…