Charter underwrote bought peptides were not for human use

[FuManchu]

Wasn't Dank doing "research"?

The problem is, he was. He had 34 human lab rats

 

[yeahmate]

He did not have to speak to them to begin with, he would have known he was on ACC's radar.It is not as black & white as you think.There are reasons why he would , you have been told there are , you don't want to believe them fine but they are still reasons why he would.

Could be true. I doubt though he is motivated by any great desire for the truth to be told. ASADA got (through changes to the Act) powers to compel attendance - not sure if they were used on Charters? Its possible I guess he agreed to co-operate in return for something else about the other investigations/possible charges of others. Maybe the new charges will be used as "leverage" to request his attendance at the AFL Tribunal? All speculation though which postulates background dealings between ACC and ASADA which to my mind seem a stretch..Just can't see a good reason why he would want to attend the AFL Tribunal when he doesnt have to, but obviously there is much happening in the background.

 

[Stumpy Pete]

Wasn't Dank doing "research"?

Indeed, and perhaps he viewed the players as "guinea pigs" rather than humans. Obviously an overly dramatic statement but this is the cavalier and pharmacologically experimental environment the players were placed in.

Regards

S. Pete

 

[Armchair Critic]

Agree there are reasons he would. Depends a lot on what else he is into.

But as you said too, I don't think it is a black and white answer from either side.

Wait and see I guess.

IMO there would be nothing better than testifying and getting a lovely letter from McDevitt stating how much assistance he provided to hand to the DPP to try wager a nice cushy deal and avoiding trial

 

[baldandbroke]

Still no good.

If you are using Chrome - Incognito Window - then GOOGLE "WITNESS SHANE CHARTER PROMISED" - first link should open

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

But I read in the other thread that ASADA were basing their entire case on the dosages that the players admitted to taking. I'm shocked that they had something else in the other 350 pages of evidence. I thought it would just be filler.

 

[Spongebob]

The problem is, he was. He had 34 human lab rats

that is why the players in all clubs are referred to as the cattle

 

[ajb72]

But I read in the other thread that ASADA were basing their entire case on the dosages that the players admitted to taking. I'm shocked that they had something else in the other 350 pages of evidence. I thought it would just be filler.

I thought the term was gumff.

 

[threesixpio]

Reid will write a letter and deliver it to no one.

I thought Hird wrote it for him.?. (Still the silliest thing in this saga I reckon...)

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

TBH this only incriminates Charter

It incriminates Charter big time.

But what it also does, is peel back the curtain a tad on what lengths these guys were going to to pump drugs into their players.

You read this stuff, and the 'we did nothing wrong' and the 'we'll be in a good place' business just becomes more and more laughable.

What they were doing, becomes sinister. Whereas the way Essendon and Hird's PR teams have been painting it is as a 'we did nothing wrong, not a big deal, nothing to see here' situation.


How the Essendon members are putting up with this is absolutely beyond me.

 

[DonsRule]

IMO there would be nothing better than testifying and getting a lovely letter from McDevitt stating how much assistance he provided to hand to the DPP to try wager a nice cushy deal and avoiding trial

I know you'll disagree with this.

Though I know there are no known links to Dank, or Charters involved in any criminal matter at Essendon at this point. That kinda scenario would be an interesting one, any penalty Charters would bean very little to him and if it meant a very light slap on the wrists from any criminal matters, would he lie to get the light sentence?

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

In my mind:

- ASADA are going to have a reasonably strong, but not watertight, case that players were given TB4;
- the problem for EFC will be that they will not have sufficient evidence to counter such a case.

As FuManchu has suggested - they need Dank to come forward with the information that saves them, if it exists.

Regards

S. Pete

Dank's already said he's handed all the records over to Essendon.

So whatever they've got, is all that they're ever going to get.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

He did not have to speak to them to begin with, he would have known he was on ACC's radar.It is not as black & white as you think.There are reasons why he would , you have been told there are , you don't want to believe them fine but they are still reasons why he would.

not sure why you've posted this frankly. I don't think anything is black and white. And I'm open minded to reasons why, that's why I asked. You say I've been told there are but what were they? Genuine question. Are you referring to the concept that he may get a favourable reference etc if he does so?

 

[Armchair Critic]

I know you'll disagree with this.

Though I know there are no known links to Dank, or Charters involved in any criminal matter at Essendon at this point. That kinda scenario would be an interesting one, any penalty Charters would bean very little to him and if it meant a very light slap on the wrists from any criminal matters, would he lie to get the light sentence?

The ACC investigated this for over 12 months, I am not saying it's impossible but I doubt they would have missed something like that.Never say never though

 

[Armchair Critic]

not sure why you've posted this frankly. I don't think anything is black and white. And I'm open minded to reasons why, that's why I asked. You say I've been told there are but what were they? Genuine question. Are you referring to the concept that he may get a favourable reference etc if he does so?

Yes I am

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

So I guess the case is all over for ASADA. Might as well pack up their bags, switch off the lights.....

Essendon and or Dank have receipts for thymomodulin.

Oh wait, they don't have receipts for thymomodulin.

But even if they lost the receipts for the thymomodulin, they surely would have the name of the supplier and they could come forth and give evidence for the purchase of thymomodulin.


Oh wait! They don't have the name of a supplier for thymomodulin! There is no witness for the supply of thymomodulin!


So now we have a conundrum GG. We have players admitting to taking "thymosin". The only thymosin that Dank can show he purchased is TB-4. The only thymosin on his own website is TB-4. The only evidence of thymomodulin is a dodgy photo of a single ampoule and a statement by the team captain saying what was used looked similar to that dodgy photo. But the team is confident that what was used was thymomodulin. I wish I could believe them but they are not filling me with great confidence. Surely they have some evidence that they purchased the "good thymosin"?

I just wish they'd show us.....

Also of interest in that article, is that it mentioned that Dank is accused of covering up the use of a banned peptide.

That's significant, because it means that ASADA have already made up their minds that whatever excuse he (and therefore Essendon) are using is bullshit. And if he's accused of it by ASADA, then they must have some evidence to support it.


I find that very interesting.


Because what it does is plug that hole that the Essendon dreamers keep putting forward. The apparent hole in ASADA's case that even though Dank bought the gear, there's no proof that the players took it - it could have been 'the good thymosin' and ASADA have to prove otherwise.

The fact that Dank (according to the article) has been accused of covering it up, means that they aren't accepting that defence. They think it's bullshit and have a case to prove it.

 

[Stumpy Pete]

Dank's already said he's handed all the records over to Essendon.

So whatever they've got, is all that they're ever going to get.

Dank's a grub who used an ambitious new football coach to gain access to a group of captive lab rats so that he could test out his theories on the benefits of certain supplements.

I wouldn't believe a word that comes out of his mouth.

Regards

S. Pete

 

[jenny61_99]

I thought Hird wrote it for him.?. (Still the silliest thing in this saga I reckon...)

What - that it was hand written (so no electronic proof as to when it was actually written)? or not delivered personally? or not followed up on? OR that James Hird actually helped him write it?

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

not sure why you've posted this frankly. I don't think anything is black and white. And I'm open minded to reasons why, that's why I asked. You say I've been told there are but what were they? Genuine question. Are you referring to the concept that he may get a favourable reference etc if he does so?

What Charter says doesn't matter.

This article, makes it clear (if it wasn't already!) that it's not what Charters is saying that has built the case - it's where it's lead ASADA that's built the case.

Charter isn't just saying he promised the Chinese company that the drug wouldn't be used on people, and ASADA are relying on his word. He told ASADA where he got the gear, and they went and spoke to them and they told them. It has nothing to do with Charter.

The worst part for Essendon, is that Charter has said he doesn't know what happened at the club. So ASADA aren't relying on anything Charter has said beyond the facts they have that he imported the gear for Dank, gave it to Alavi to compound and told Dank the dosages to use.

These are facts. Not Charter's word that will come under scrutiny.

 

[DonsRule]

The ACC investigated this for over 12 months, I am not saying it's impossible but I doubt they would have missed something like that.Never say never though

But than, do we know the full contense of the report?

Agree, I don't think it is likely that this kind of thing would have gone unnoticed by the ACC , is it possible it is still being investigated by the relevant parties.

 

[Toil83]

Also of interest in that article, is that it mentioned that Dank is accused of covering up the use of a banned peptide.

That's significant, because it means that ASADA have already made up their minds that whatever excuse he (and therefore Essendon) are using is bullshit. And if he's accused of it by ASADA, then they must have some evidence to support it.


I find that very interesting.


Because what it does is plug that hole that the Essendon dreamers keep putting forward. The apparent hole in ASADA's case that even though Dank bought the gear, there's no proof that the players took it - it could have been 'the good thymosin' and ASADA have to prove otherwise.

The fact that Dank (according to the article) has been accused of covering it up, means that they aren't accepting that defence. They think it's bullshit and have a case to prove it.

You raise some interesting points. If I had to guess, I would say their case goes something like this:

1. Charter buys TB4 from China.
2. Takes it to Alavi to compound.
3. Alavi does the work then gives it to Dank.
4. Dank says he gives it to another pharmacy for testing but they destroy it. (though note the pharmacy says they never received nor destroyed anything)
5. Essendon players then receive 'Thymosin' injections using same dosage instructions as TB4.
6. Essendon say players received legal Thymosin (though they appear to be having trouble showing purchase records of the legal kind)

Edit - And somewhere in there some interesting things take place about crediting/backdating invoices.

 

[Tiger Toffee]

How long do we think it will be before Hird throws the players under the bus declaring he had no knowledge of what the players and Dank were doing.
Never under estimate what a person will do to save their own bacon.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Yes I am

I saw your later post after I posted this.

Fair enough. I concede that might be a motivating factor. I don't know how much weight it really would carry even given what McDevitt's done in the past but admittedly I know * all about the area

 

[LoungeLizard]

How long do we think it will be before Hird throws the players under the bus declaring he had no knowledge of what the players and Dank were doing.
Never under estimate what a person will do to save their own bacon.

He has already started that.
"I am just the coach, it's not my responsibility"

 

[NikkiNoo]

You raise some interesting points. If I had to guess, I would say their case goes something like this:

1. Charter buys TB4 from China.
2. Takes it to Alavi to compound.
3. Alavi does the work then gives it to Dank.
4. Dank says he gives it to another pharmacy for testing but they destroy it. (though note the pharmacy says they never received nor destroyed anything)
5. Essendon players then receive 'Thymosin' injections using same dosage instructions as TB4.
6. Essendon say players received legal Thymosin (though they appear to be having trouble showing purchase records of the legal kind)

Edit - And somewhere in there some interesting things take place about crediting/backdating invoices.

You can also add in that Dank requested TB4 from Charter and that Charter advised Dank the dosage requirements for TB4 administration in humans.