Charter underwrote bought peptides were not for human use

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fabulousphil

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Completely innocent of what?

That makes no sense. No sense whatsoever.

At the very least, at the absolute very least, they must have some query in their heads that they may have been given 'the bad thymosin'. They just must.

It's illogical, to have a 2 year investigation carried and find that you did. But you believe your completely innocent just because the very people that gave it to you - are saying they didn't. They don't have anything to prove it to you - they're just saying it.

Any right minded person, would have some (frankly, most would have a lot!) doubt that they are innocent of a breach of the WADA Code. And once you'd read the evidence against you, any person of sane mind would have a large degree of doubt!


To say they believe they believe they are 100% completely innocent is just lies from the players and the club. Absolute lies. It's unfathomable that they could be 100% certain.


And if they're not 100% certain, they should be doing the right thing and following the processes of the code that they and every other athlete in the country has agreed to.

Which they're not. And which is why I struggle to sympathise and can't help but feel they're covering their arses.

Your right, and out of 34 players ...... 34 ....... 34 not one has taken the offered deal, out of 34 players not one has had enough doubt to publicly question his innocence.

Amazing stuff.

How can so much public scrutiny fail to impact their doubts, yet here we are 2 years on and no takers.

Amazing stuff

They must be extremely dumb ... or they are extremely confident...... and why would they feel extremely confident you have to ask yourself.

34 extremely dumb footballers, is that what you are saying.
 
Aug 25, 2003
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No it confirms that charter was supplied with a quantity of TB4. On its own it doesn't prove anything more than that.

There are other dots along the way that when combined might prove TB4 was used but ASADA don't have all the dots so it remains to be seen whether they have enough to reach the conclusion TB4 was used to a comfortable level of satisfaction
And thats it in a nutshell.

No one yet can definitively say they were doped, but at some stage you have to accept that ASADA would not put itself out for ridicule and set back the cause of anti doping for years in this country if they didnt have a somewhat compelling case.
 
Aug 25, 2005
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Your right, and out of 34 players ...... 34 ....... 34 not one has taken the offered deal, out of 34 players not one has had enough doubt to publicly question his innocence.

Amazing stuff.

How can so much public scrutiny fail to impact their doubts, yet here we are 2 years on and no takers.

Amazing stuff

They must be extremely dumb ... or they are extremely confident...... and why would they feel extremely confident you have to ask yourself.

34 extremely dumb footballers, is that what you are saying.

In isolation, I agree. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever!

However, from what I've seen in the public forum - it's even less logical that they didn't take TB-4!


The only conclusion I can make, is that (as per Ryder's comments) they've been duped again by the club into thinking that if they just sit there and follow the club's lead this will all go away shortly and we'll all be Ok.
 

le dominateur

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All the loopholes are slowly being closed, Essendon = confirmed drug cheats.

shut gate.png
 

good4footy

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I don't get the fascination with Corona. Might as well be drinking water.

Love the taste (especially with a little lemon / lime in the bottle), doesn't bloat me as much, get happy without getting messy.

Kids attending Halloween party straight after school, beautiful day today, back decking with my wife after work, Corona's, bucket of prawns, no kids.

umm....like drinking water you say.....no kids.....might need to get something stronger for my wife!!
 

fabulousphil

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In isolation, I agree. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever!

However, from what I've seen in the public forum - it's even less logical that they didn't take TB-4!


The only conclusion I can make, is that (as per Ryder's comments) they've been duped again by the club into thinking that if they just sit there and follow the club's lead this will all go away shortly and we'll all be Ok.

if history is any guide getting 34 young blokes to do anything in sinc is nigh impossible, you just cant begin to imagine the cliques, such and such did not like the way the coach looked at him, I am being treated unfairly, they are favouring such and such, why was I dropped for him etc etc etc.

So you can imagine if blokes for one second think they have been dealt with unfairly by the club or coach with being injected with banned drugs amongst players actually playing let alone retired players.
 
Aug 27, 2009
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Your right, and out of 34 players ...... 34 ....... 34 not one has taken the offered deal, out of 34 players not one has had enough doubt to publicly question his innocence.

Amazing stuff.

How can so much public scrutiny fail to impact their doubts, yet here we are 2 years on and no takers.

Amazing stuff

They must be extremely dumb ... or they are extremely confident...... and why would they feel extremely confident you have to ask yourself.

34 extremely dumb footballers, is that what you are saying.
Not amazing if the players know they were given banned substances, no deals have actually been offered what was offered is for the players to discuss and then see if deals are offered.

If they know they cheated then the obvious thing is to stick together and deny everything, Essendon and its lawyers would have ensured they realise if one breaks ranks they are all gone.
 
Aug 27, 2009
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if history is any guide getting 34 young blokes to do anything in sinc is nigh impossible, you just cant begin to imagine the cliques, such and such did not like the way the coach looked at him, I am being treated unfairly, they are favouring such and such, why was I dropped for him etc etc etc.

So you can imagine if blokes for one second think they have been dealt with unfairly by the club or coach with being injected with banned drugs amongst players actually playing let alone retired players.
In football they do it all the time, that is why Hawthorn can afford to recruit players as the whole team even those not getting games will stick together accepting lower pay for the chance of every footballing boys dream an AFL premiership, players are selected after much physcho testing to ensure they are driven and determined
 
Aug 27, 2009
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I don't get the fascination with Corona. Might as well be drinking water.
I think you have answered your own question sometimes on a hot day a cold beer that tastes like water and still gets you drunk may be just what some are after, takes some getting used to whn drinking a strong hoppy beer, personally a nice Belgian wheat beer goes down well or most German beers as they are made without sugar, so no hangovers.
 

good4footy

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Not amazing if the players know they were given banned substances, no deals have actually been offered what was offered is for the players to discuss and then see if deals are offered.

If they know they cheated then the obvious thing is to stick together and deny everything, Essendon and its lawyers would have ensured they realise if one breaks ranks they are all gone.

I have no idea whether the players are guilty or not. Regardless, whether they cheated/ were duped / didn't do anything wrong - the carrot of..."hang tough we will get you out of this via these channels", would get 34 mostly Gen Y blokes to do almost anything, let alone just stay together or stay quiet.

When it becomes obvious that 'escape' no longer is in play, IMO, human nature would dictate 'everyone for themselves'...or as it is now known 'The Jimmy'
 

fabulousphil

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In football they do it all the time, that is why Hawthorn can afford to recruit players as the whole team even those not getting games will stick together accepting lower pay for the chance of every footballing boys dream an AFL premiership, players are selected after much physcho testing to ensure they are driven and determined

but we are talking about the opposite, we are talking about the club falling apart, that actually gives players the opportunity to bitch not the excuse to gell together like a premiership assault as per hawthorn.

If there was ever a time for players to air grievances it would be now.

I am not saying I am correct but IME that tells me the players think they are 100% innocent and ME also tells me they would have thoroughly looked into it, it is not just boys stick together routine.

A myriad of young blokes from a myriad of different backgrounds with mums and dads etc in their ears tells me a lot ......... and yet not one has broken ranks.
 

BlueWorld

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Completely innocent of what?

That makes no sense. No sense whatsoever.

At the very least, at the absolute very least, they must have some query in their heads that they may have been given 'the bad thymosin'. They just must.

It's illogical, to have a 2 year investigation carried and find that you did. But you believe you're completely innocent just because the very people that gave it to you - are saying you didn't. They don't have anything to prove it to you - they're just saying it.

Any right minded person, would have some (frankly, most would have a lot!) doubt that they are innocent of a breach of the WADA Code. And once you'd read the evidence against you, any person of sane mind would have a large degree of doubt!

Not necessarily convinced - but clearly there'd be some doubt.


To say they believe they believe they are 100% completely innocent is just lies from the players and the club. Absolute lies. It's unfathomable that they could be 100% certain.


And if they're not 100% certain, they should be doing the right thing and following the processes of the code that they and every other athlete in the country has agreed to.

Which they're not. And which is why I struggle to sympathise and can't help but feel they're covering their arses.
Last time i heard Mcveigh speak about it he sounded like they believe they were receiving WADA compliant stuff but could have been duped and received banned drugs without their knowledge.
 
Reminds me of an old joke

A bloke suspects his wife of cheating on him but is uncertain so hires a private detective to investigate. He tells the PD of his suspicions but continually says "It's the uncertainty, I just can't be sure"

After a couple of weeks the detective gets back to his client and tells him he has some bad news

"So I followed your wife to a restaurant where she met another man and had dinner with them"
"And then what happened? I want to be sure"
"They left holding hands and took a taxi to a nearby motel. Through the back window of the taxi I could see them kissing each other"
"And then what happened? I want to be sure"
"They booked a room with the desk clerk who seemed to recognize them as regulars and went upstairs to their room"
"And then what happened? I want to be sure"
"Well I couldn't see from the street but fortunately there was a tall tree nearby that gave a perfect view into their room through the window. They were passionately kissing each other and slowly removing their clothes. I'm sure this must be difficult for you do want me to go on?"
"Yes. Tell me I want to be sure they had sex"
"The man removed your wife's bra and panties. You sure you want to hear this?"
"Yes, yes, the uncertainty is killing me"
"She laid down on the bed on her back as he removed his boxer shorts. And then he turned the lights out so I saw no more"
"You see, it's the uncertainty, I just can't be sure she had sex"

Guess he supported essendon.
 

BlueWorld

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The only conclusion I can make, is that (as per Ryder's comments) they've been duped again by the club into thinking that if they just sit there and follow the club's lead this will all go away shortly and we'll all be Ok.
I heard they believed the Federal court case would end the matter. I assume they still believe the AFLPA's assertion that ASADA do not have enough evidence to find them guilty.
 

blueboy25

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A myriad of young blokes from a myriad of different backgrounds with mums and dads etc in their ears tells me a lot ......... and yet not one has broken ranks.

Why wouldn't they try and see it out until the end and take the chance that they get found not guilty. Especially with the lawyers and little in their ear telling them everything will be fine.

For someone like Jobe who would probably be stripped of his brownlow if he took a deal, there is no reason not to let the investigation run its course.
 

BlueWorld

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if history is any guide getting 34 young blokes to do anything in sinc is nigh impossible, you just cant begin to imagine the cliques, such and such did not like the way the coach looked at him, I am being treated unfairly, they are favouring such and such, why was I dropped for him etc etc etc.
What about the remaining players on the list who didn't participate, including Zaharakis who is not afraid of needles?
 
Aug 25, 2005
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Why wouldn't they try and see it out until the end and take the chance that they get found not guilty. Especially with the lawyers and little in their ear telling them everything will be fine.

For someone like Jobe who would probably be stripped of his brownlow if he took a deal, there is no reason not to let the investigation run its course.


Sure - but if that is the strategy, then there's no way that people can expect the public to sympathise with them.
 
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