Charter underwrote bought peptides were not for human use

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Sep 29, 2009
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Yes there is it is strict liability, Charter it is known was the supplier of Danks supplements he only sourced Tb4 so where did Dank get thymomodulin, simple question its not banned so the supplier will surely come forward, really your arguments are starting to just sound stupid.
Apparently GG never suggested thymomodulin. GG and me have no idea where you got that from. GG and me are dumbfounded.
 

Admiral Byng

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Trial of stomach fluids in vials from 34 players, first I heard of that.

And still doesn't answer the question of , if you don't know your taking something illegal how can you be guilty of rule breaking. That is the bottom line to the end of this . Absolute truth and they can't prove absolute truth in this now.

The dispute in court for any one taking it there to clear their name (s), is exactly that, its whether they knew they were rule breaking or whether they were totally innocent and were taking sport supplements as a health and strength booster, and had no idea that they were doing something wrong let alone illegal?.

That's what has to be proved to sanction any player whatsoever. But the ASADA /AFL rules and set up will probably convict them all on this maybe, and so they will all go to court I would suspect , to clear their names of being called drug cheats.

Because, just maybe, some or all weren't knowing what they were taking was legal or illegal.

Someone has to prove that , prove it emphatically in fact .

Or every one of those suspected players will carry cheat with them forever.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By this Code the AFL prohibits the classes of substances and methods which are prohibited
under the World Anti-Doping Code Prohibited List
Substances are prohibited if they fall into the prohibited classes identified in this Code. The
substances described in each prohibited class are examples only. Substances which are not
included as examples are prohibited if they fall within a prohibited class.
It is the responsibility of each Player to ensure that he does not use or administer prohibited
substances or prohibited methods, whether or not included as examples.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From the cover page of the AFL Anti-Doping Code. (my bolds)

http://www.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL Tenant/AFL/Files/Schedule 6 - National Anti-Doping Code.pdf

not much wriggle room there...
 

Armchair Critic

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Deals were offered in June. There were no takers. The desperation here is now revealed by it being portrayed that no player taking a deal is evidence of the players' guilt. Cuckoo.
www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/bombers-would-have-missed-finals-under-asada-deal-20140826-108qif.html

That statement by Caroline Wilson was not challenged by ASADA and was not withdrawn. A media statement regarding a NRL deal offer was publicly challenged by ASADA.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/asada-denies-tabling-ban-deal-with-afl-20140822-1076jn.html
 

gavaniacono

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I'm dumbfounded too.

It's the main reason I don't have sympathy for the players. I can't help but feel they're covering their arses. Anyone in their right mind would break away from the pack mentality and demand answers.

It's genuinely staggering.
The problem is if Essendon do not have the information :rolleyes: the players do not have the information. It is all speculation until the players have actual evidence of what occurred. Then there is also the possibility the players willingly participated in which case Essendon lawyers will smash them anyway.

Essendon as a football club are screwed though if this plays out as it should.
One aspect of the DOC angle I would pursue is essendon employing directly or indirectly felons and rogues. While players are responsible for what they consume, and need to take it like adults, the club needs to create a safe environment built around sound professional ethics. They failed here. I note also the AFLs insistense that players not have private relationships with people of ill repute. They have been noisy in protesting the friendships of King and Swan. No sound regarding charter and dank. Hypocrisy.
 
Aug 27, 2009
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I'd like to see the tons of evidence. And then prove the players knew what it was the drug I mean .

I suspect that the players can have nothing proved against them, in terms of having taken performance enhancing drugs deliberately.

As I've said before it appears that under ASADA rules you can be found guilty or are guilty whether you understood you were doing some thing wrong or not.

I would call that unfair and unjust.

Does that make me naive, that I believe that fair and honest judgement of players now is virtually impossible to prove.

Maybe because the ASADA investigation wasn't that good.
Speak to some Olympians about this, that is what the AFL signed up for and therefore the players, it may be harsh but it is necessary, the evidence that they took TB4 whether knowledgeably or not is growing by the day, they admitted taking Thymosin they signed forms agreeing to take it Dank said that was what he gave them, where is the evidence that it was thymomodulin, there is none, oh sorry a photo taken god knows when.

It may be harsh, they may have been duped but had they followed protocol and checked then they would have realised that it was likely TB4.

What isn't fair is if they took banned substances then other teams had to play against juiced players, Jobe has a brownlow that some other players really deserve that is what's not fair.
 
And which individual knew what he was taking. Answer that one as well for each "accused" , that is the bottom line.
It's each individual players responsibility to know what he/she is taking and to ensure that it isn't banned

Despite having this drummed into them by the AFL not one essendon player tried to independently verify what the club was giving them was legit. Not one
 
May 13, 2012
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Gorgeous,

I'd be more convinved if the word "only" appeared in there somewhere.

To me this is why I am very reluctant to criticise ASADA over the time taken in this case. There are not many cases of allegations of sporting teams, as distinct from squads of persons competing indivdually in events, doping their athletes.

Regards

S. Pete

It's a good point Stumpy.

This is from our very own Aust Sports Commission:

Under the World Anti-Doping Code, the principle of strict liability applies - this means an anti-doping rule violation occurs whenever a prohibited substance is found in an athlete’s sample.​
 

Tazmania

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and none paid for by EFC. quite a dilly of a pickle
Hence that compelling text message about the financials all being set up. I have no doubt that they have found the financial trail which attempted to hide the payments. The ACC in particular are very good at this. For the last couple of years their internal methodology/stance was, "Follow the money".
 

gavaniacono

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And that is precisely why no players have come out and said things, because they have asked questions and been satisfied that they were not duped or doped and I might add we are not talking a handful of players here, we are talking 34 players, that is a hell of a lot of players to keep happy.

Had even one player, let alone 34 been suss about taking banned substances you would have heard about it now.

ASADA is desperate for them to take a deal, Mcd posturing, bluffing, blustering now going to Paris has not made them blink.

The most complex case in the world is far from it, other cases involving teams cut across different countries, different jurisdictions, different cultures etc .
If I was at one of those bomber parent meetings listening to apologists like Watson senior get up and say that the club has done nothing substantively wrong, even though there are no records, I would have hip and shouldered him on the stage then and there. Is this phenomenon of players holding fat with the club that so obviously abused them AFLs version of the Stockholm syndrome?
 
Sep 29, 2009
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and none paid for by EFC. quite a dilly of a pickle

Somebody paid for the TB4, right? The person who knows (Dank) isn't saying who. Matter of fact he refuses to speak about it. He won't - if what you say is true - even give details of where he sold it privately to his clinic patients. And the Essendon Football Club have sniped and attacked Dean Robinson, Kyle Reimers, various jouirnalists, thrown David Evans under a bus....but not Dank. Dank, who it looks like is going to sink the players, with him not offering them an alibi for where the TB4 went. Yet nary a peep from Little about it. Odd, don't you think?
 

Bobby Charlton

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Not relevant. That article, published 22 August, was about a denial by ASADA that they made a deal with the AFL on deals for the players. The article I posted written by Caro (and published 26 August ie after the ASADA denial in the previous article) declared the deals ASADA offered to the players without involvement of the AFL. ASADA have never denied the statement by Caro of 26 August and Caro has not withdrawn it. You lose yet again.
 

Rumballs

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I'm dumbfounded too.

It's the main reason I don't have sympathy for the players. I can't help but feel they're covering their arses. Anyone in their right mind would break away from the pack mentality and demand answers.

It's genuinely staggering.
For me one of the strangest aspects of the whole thing.
It can't be just ass covering , or someone would have pleaded early, offered as much assistance as they could and get a minimal ban.
Regardless of whether they still play at Essendon, or still play at all there has been very little public disunity.
If there are significant sanctions I wonder if that will fracture the relationships.
 
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You don't think they were paid for. How can you get credit notes for unpaid substances
When the Ziggy report came out , he made mention of why no special audit as Dank got the kyber for being well over budget( there may be other reasons but this was presented to the public). There may have been no special audit cos some people may not have wanted the results be found and published. Maybe others have done such and audit since?
 

Armchair Critic

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Not relevant. That article, published 22 August, was about a denial by ASADA that they made a deal with the AFL on deals for the players. The article I posted written by Caro (and published 26 August ie after the ASADA denial in the previous article) declared the deals ASADA offered to the players without involvement of the AFL. ASADA have never denied the statement by Caro of 26 August and Caro has not withdrawn it. You lose yet again.

OK Bobby , sure thing.
 
Jan 27, 2008
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Comfortable satisfaction.

That excludes 100% and it also excludes clear-cut link. You make it sound like ASADA needed to be in the room when it all happened.


I bet Derek Percy is kicking the proverbial red cat down there in Hell after just being done in a Court of Law for another murder on totally circumstantial evidence.

Imagine the gaps a Percy Apologist could have dreamt up.

Comfortable satisfaction at the AFL Tribunal is gonna be a tasty mission for Tom Howe QC for ASADA.
 
May 13, 2012
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Read the Jake Law Statement of reasons, it states use is covered under Strict Liability Page 3-4, point 16

I suggest you read it again.

Accordingly, if the substance had arrived and been consumed.....​

So, I repeat, from the WADA website:

What is strict liability?

The principle of strict liability is applied in situations where urine/blood samples collected from an athlete have produced adverse analytical results.​

From the Aust Sports Commission:

Under the World Anti-Doping Code, the principle of strict liability applies - this means an anti-doping rule violation occurs whenever a prohibited substance is found in an athlete’s sample.​
 
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