List Mgmt. 2014 Draft Trade FA Megathread

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Dec 4, 2000
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What are the chances of Simpkin getting a payout if we like someone who gets through to the PSD?
FA has really made the PSD useless, particularly DFA, as clubs finalise their list through this method.
Think someone said if a player gets given a contract by their club but doesn't take it then they have to go through the PSD but realistically which club wouldn't delist their player if they were seeking greater opportunity aka Membrey, Newton, etc.

The only time I could see that happening would be in a Dayne Beams situation where Collingwood couldn't get a trade done for two straight trade periods and wants to dog him, but that would be silly of Collingwood to not get anything for him

Just say you have a Cameron who wont take the offered contract? What then for him?
 

Stewart66

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We can still rookie someone.



McKernan
Petrenko

And have them all on the rookie list, ready to upgrade as soon as there's an injury.

Think a lot of Stkilda supporters will be very surprised how good these two players will be for Saints
 
Jun 2, 2012
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Petracca better be all that he is hyped up to be. I'm sick of these No.1 pick failing to be all their made out to be. I think you have to be more balanced and ensure that you get the player that will be an out and out A grade player, however, the risk is so high.

Our strike rate with pick 1 has been pretty good though ;)

Hopefully we can keep it up.
 

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TheJackal

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Whether we were after him or not, it appear Tomlinson is resigning for another two years at GWS - suprised me a little to hear this as at some stages it looked like we bookmarked him to be our Rooey replacement.

Oh well, Shiel, Cameron & Treloar still unsigned... how much for all three? ;)
 

Smoke_Me_AKipper

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We need mids to get the ball into the forward line and also get the ball back when in dispute in the middle. CP is a must at pick 1. We also need outside run with at least one speedy mid at pick 21/22.

Reiwoldt, White, Membrey plus Billings, Templeton, Bruce - if the ball is delivered better into the forward line these guys will mark the ball and then it is down to their kicking. Reiwoldt - much improved kicking last year (back to his old form); Membrey - meant to be an elite kick for goal - better than Fev; White - looked a classy kick for goal when I watched him; Billings - few hiccups when i watched him in the seniors but overall a great kick for goal; Bruce - haven't seen enough to make a call but very competitive and is good at contesting and bringing the ball to the ground to bring others into the game; Templeton - only a brief appearance last year but I liked what I saw - great energy and a good kick for goal.

So if we can deliver the ball better and more importantly kick it to their advantage in the marking contest (which the better teams do) when we have our fwd 50 entries this will result in more scores and make us more competitive and take our chances when we have them. I think Reiwoldt would have scored another 15 goals at least if we delivered the ball better, (sometimes it was just atrocious)!
 

saintbill

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Hf Billings Reiwoldt Membrey

F Templeton McCartin White

Possible round 1 forward line if we draft McCartin an throw in Membrey into the mix...kind of like the look of it anyone agree??
Looks good initially, but who is the second ruckman? If you have Longer or Hickey on the bench, then I would say it is top heavy. Personally, would not want to see Reiwoldt, White, McCartin, Hickey & Longer in the same side. That is 4 out 5 big blokes that have average to poor defensive pressure. The ball would be rebounding out of forward 50 far too easily. Losing Stanley is going to have a much bigger impact than most on here seem to think.
 

felsty

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Just say you have a Cameron who wont take the offered contract? What then for him?
obviously the shoe is on the other foot, but regardless I think clubs are stupid to let a player of that calibre walk. Most clubs will pay what a player is worth in terms of trades, perhaps apart from Essendon and Collingwood.

The funny thing about Collingwood, and to a lesser extent Essendon, is that they talk tough and most of us castricize them for doing so, but in the end Collingwood did the deal and got a very, very good deal because they played hard ball. Anyone could tell you that Beams isn't worth what they got him for. He is worth a first and second round pick.

I hope when it comes to next year we don't fall into this trap with GWS like Brisbane did with Collingwood. Try to get Cameron, try to beat all the other teams that are trying to get him, but don't pay ridiculous overs for his signature.

Regardless, I don't think you'll see someone of Camerons calibre getting to the PSD. Last year the only player taken in the PSD was Lamb and thats because Swans wouldn't delist him. Everything is DFA now, its ethical to let a player get an opportunity if you have exhausted all options to get a trade.
 

Smoke_Me_AKipper

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Whether we were after him or not, it appear Tomlinson is resigning for another two years at GWS - suprised me a little to hear this as at some stages it looked like we bookmarked him to be our Rooey replacement.

Oh well, Shiel, Cameron & Treloar still unsigned... how much for all three? ;)

Picks 1 & 2 next year. If those 3 players came to us, ie we did that deal, we would win a premiership in the near future - of that I would have no doubt!!
 
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And how is having the No1 pick a high risk. Logically it is a lower risk than any other pick in the draft. You are almost guaranteed of a top quality player, arguments can rage (Hodge or Judd) who is better, but you will be arguing about quality.

Its a risk because there is no excuse. You had the choice of everyone. If you pick third and it goes South, you can say that you wanted the other two guys.
 

felsty

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Looks good initially, but who is the second ruckman? If you have Longer or Hickey on the bench, then I would say it is top heavy. Personally, would not want to see Reiwoldt, White, McCartin, Hickey & Longer in the same side. That is 4 out 5 big blokes that have average to poor defensive pressure. The ball would be rebounding out of forward 50 far too easily. Losing Stanley is going to have a much bigger impact than most on here seem to think.
Stanley wasn't great at the defensive side of things. Quite easy to run off actually. Just because he is fast doesn't necessarily mean he applies pressure. See the work of Clinton Jones and you'll understand. Defensive pressure is all about patterns and smart running, not picking and choosing when to go.
 

felsty

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Its a risk because there is no excuse. You had the choice of everyone. If you pick third and it goes South, you can say that you wanted the other two guys.
sounds like excuses to me. Don't think any AFL football club is about excuses. You pick who you think will be the best player for you at your pick. If it goes wrong it goes wrong. I'm pretty sure the recruiters will see it as having the best chance to get the best player in the U18 comp and will pick accordingly. The player is still going to be all class.

Smile buddy, don't be so down about having Pick 1!
 
May 29, 2012
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FA has really made the PSD useless, particularly DFA, as clubs finalise their list through this method.

FA has actually made the DFA bit useless.
FA should last until the week after the draft. But you only get comp picks up to the 10th day.

1) Allows clubs list flexibility - rather than needing other clubs to do them a favour by delisting someone so they can sign them and have them get to training early, or having to use a PSD pick to sign a delisted player. They can also then go to the PSD and release someone if they felt a PSD option was better. If they didn't, they might then go back to the free agency list and sign someone.
2) Still pushes clubs to get their big deals done early, to get comp.
3) Makes FA all about those who were on an AFL list last year, and the PSD about everyone else (state leaguers, ND sliders, etc)
 

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saintbill
That seems fairly likely.
My concern with it, is that we are likely to see a KPD slide to us, and a non-elite midfielder. We don't however get to choose who they are; our position in this draft, and the depth of talent, means we are being left with the dregs of other teams. Always concerns me.
Last year was a bit different as there was a broad range of players with positives and negatives (e.g. Dunstan a competitive and ready-to-play on-field leader but potential ceiling to his abilities, Acres a potentially game-breaking talent but with injury concerns and some clubs maybe wary of go-home desire with him being WA) but this year I don't know if the talent has real deficiencies rather than just minor concerns.
This just may be a perspective thing. You can look at it as picking a player from the "dregs" but that is a narrow view. Most clubs have only had one pick and they've had their eye on the player they choose for some time. What we have (in another perspective) is the first two picks of the draft after the predetermined picks have gone. That is a very powerful place to be.
 

felsty

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FA has actually made the DFA bit useless.
FA should last until the week after the draft. But you only get comp picks up to the 10th day.

1) Allows clubs list flexibility - rather than needing other clubs to do them a favour by delisting someone so they can sign them and have them get to training early, or having to use a PSD pick to sign a delisted player. They can also then go to the PSD and release someone if they felt a PSD option was better. If they didn't, they might then go back to the free agency list and sign someone.
2) Still pushes clubs to get their big deals done early, to get comp.
3) Makes FA all about those who were on an AFL list last year, and the PSD about everyone else (state leaguers, ND sliders, etc)
Ill give you point 3. Very good summation!
Suppose there is a way the PSD can be useful to some extent.

I'm not! I was just pointing out why even pick 1 can be considered a risk.

NFL for example is littered with messy stories about the top picks, people losing their job over it.
I agree that every pick is a risk but definitely agree that pick 1 is the lowest risk possible, particularly nowadays with recruiting!
 

God Save Max King

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Thanks for doing the hard yards saintbill. From someone who is "no draft expert" either, my intuition says you're analysis is spot on.

Another interpretation of your argument is that it may come down to ....
21 - McKenzie or Marchbank?
22 - Cockatoo or Ellis?

Rahul, given you have McKenzie and Cockatoo ahead of Marchbank and Ellis, but have 2 players in your top 22 who probably will slide below all of them - Nelson and Miller - who squeezes into 21 and 22?
Cockatoo and Marchbank?
Yep, I think so.
saintbill
That seems fairly likely.
My concern with it, is that we are likely to see a KPD slide to us, and a non-elite midfielder. We don't however get to choose who they are; our position in this draft, and the depth of talent, means we are being left with the dregs of other teams. Always concerns me.
Last year was a bit different as there was a broad range of players with positives and negatives (e.g. Dunstan a competitive and ready-to-play on-field leader but potential ceiling to his abilities, Acres a potentially game-breaking talent but with injury concerns and some clubs maybe wary of go-home desire with him being WA) but this year I don't know if the talent has real deficiencies rather than just minor concerns.
We have the #1 pick. We do choose whoever we want and every other team just gets the next best guy at their pick. Make no mistakes, we have the choice.
 
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We have the #1 pick. We do choose whoever we want and every other team just gets the next best guy at their pick. Make no mistakes, we have the choice.

My comment that you quoted was in the context of our picks in the 20s. And to give further context, was in reply to someone who listed 4 KPDs in the draft and the likelihood one might slide to us.
My point is, the one who slides to us was ranked 4th out of 4, or not worth touching at all, by other clubs. We'd be taking the one left, not necessarily the one we'd have liked.

Getting a slider means they have doubts. Last year the two guys we picked had pros and cons but there were no doubts whatsoever they could play. I don't want to see us get sliders at 21 who are risky enough that even avoiding injury might never be afl grade.
On the other hand if other clubs take risks, the safer picks are the sliders.

In general though it was just a reminder that essentially the club aren't in full control as they maybe have a list of 8 or so players they like in that region of the draft, and they have to hope 2 last to their picks.
 
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My comment that you quoted was in the context of our picks in the 20s. And to give further context, was in reply to someone who listed 4 KPDs in the draft and the likelihood one might slide to us.
My point is, the one who slides to us was ranked 4th out of 4, or not worth touching at all, by other clubs. We'd be taking the one left, not necessarily the one we'd have liked.

Getting a slider means they have doubts. Last year the two guys we picked had pros and cons but there were no doubts whatsoever they could play. I don't want to see us get sliders at 21 who are risky enough that even avoiding injury might never be afl grade.
I think that's an unrealistically negative approach to sliders. Slidrs mean that there were players unexpectedly picked before they were expected. Effectively, that means who we get at 21 would be expected by most watchers to be taken much earlier, say 15 or something. That makes them a bargain.
 
One of the things that fascinates me with this draft is Lamb - he's the "love or hate" pick this year, with some thinking he's a gun and others a spud (which makes me think of spudguns, but I digress). I wonder if that's because of he's a utility. Utilities either are versatile, or they're "jack of all trades, master of none".
 
Perhaps but has there been a time before where another team has poached a player in such a situation? It is something that will 100% sour further trade negotiations.

I have a vague memory that this has happened before in the last couple of years
 

saintbill

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Stanley wasn't great at the defensive side of things. Quite easy to run off actually. Just because he is fast doesn't necessarily mean he applies pressure. See the work of Clinton Jones and you'll understand. Defensive pressure is all about patterns and smart running, not picking and choosing when to go.
That is a fair point, but I was more referencing the fact that Stanley would allow us to play 4 talls rather than 5, which would have been required in the forward line suggested in the initial thread, unless we expect Spencer White to spend time in the ruck.

That extra player could be Murdoch, Minchington, or a resting mid. Now this would significantly improve defensive pressure in the defensive 50. For a team that is seriously lacking run, I think there is a huge advantage in not having to play 2 ruckman. I am actually a fan of the McKernan idea for this reason.

Anyway, I am becoming like a broken record with the Stanley trade. I am moving on, starting from this post;)
 

God Save Max King

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My comment that you quoted was in the context of our picks in the 20s. And to give further context, was in reply to someone who listed 4 KPDs in the draft and the likelihood one might slide to us.
My point is, the one who slides to us was ranked 4th out of 4, or not worth touching at all, by other clubs. We'd be taking the one left, not necessarily the one we'd have liked.

Getting a slider means they have doubts. Last year the two guys we picked had pros and cons but there were no doubts whatsoever they could play. I don't want to see us get sliders at 21 who are risky enough that even avoiding injury might never be afl grade.
On the other hand if other clubs take risks, the safer picks are the sliders.

In general though it was just a reminder that essentially the club aren't in full control as they maybe have a list of 8 or so players they like in that region of the draft, and they have to hope 2 last to their picks.
Nobody gets to pick and choose in the 20s, heck no-one gets to choose who they want any pick after 5. I don't see why having the 4th best player in his position is a bad thing, especially with key defenders. As for not making the grade, there's a chance that Acres and Dunstan never do completely 'make the grade', that's why they were picked outside the top 15.

Also re "non-elite midfielders", if a midfielder is elite, he goes top 10, every day of the week.
 
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What are the chances of Simpkin getting a payout if we like someone who gets through to the PSD?
FA has really made the PSD useless, particularly DFA, as clubs finalise their list through this method.
Think someone said if a player gets given a contract by their club but doesn't take it then they have to go through the PSD but realistically which club wouldn't delist their player if they were seeking greater opportunity aka Membrey, Newton, etc.

The only time I could see that happening would be in a Dayne Beams situation where Collingwood couldn't get a trade done for two straight trade periods and wants to dog him, but that would be silly of Collingwood to not get anything for him

0% chance
 
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