Review Winners and losers of Trade week.

[Wee Jessies]

Ted Richards one I'm a bit confused on- are you saying that the Swans trading pick 19 and 50 for Ted Richards was a bad deal? Or if a similar situation happened today (struggling player wanted trade) that we'd be overpaying?

Ted Richards deal seems like a bargain now- but a risky one and one that wouldn't happen in todays market?

I'm saying that the deal worked well for both parties in the end. On form at the time (my recollection) I would have thought he was just about trade or delist. Those type of players these days get pick 50 if you are lucky. As it turned out if Sydney just gave pick 50 they win by a mile but at the time getting the picks was a steal for Essendon. So yes it was a bad deal that came good like so many other trades.

 

[I am Jack]

Clark hasn't been at his best since 2009.
I think people need to temper their expectations on Clark.

There are no expectations.
Not many people expect Clark to do a lot - I certainly don't.
But, at the same time, I do recognise that the guy is capable of making All Australian.
If Geelong can get the best out of Clark - and that is a big IF - then he will be a valuable player.

 

[Vass]

If Clark gets back to his best, he will be one of the biggest steals ever.

 

[Yoda_]

If Cooney gets back to his best, he will be one of the biggest steals ever.

Fixed

 

[Vass]

Fixed

yeah fair but i think that is a lot less likely then White. White was at his best before he got injured. Cooney has not been near his best despite playing.

 

[Kimbo]

Potential winners - North Melbourne
Potential losers - North Melbourne

If Waite and Higgins weren't free agents, I'd agree with you. A certain 'high risk/high reward' feeling about the recruiting. Mind you, I think there is just as much, if not more, risk in keeping Tarrant and Delaney on the list. Both have suffered from injury relatively more than Waite and Higgins and we've chosen to persevere with them (albeit with Delaney to be moved to the rookie list).

 

[Kimbo]

North Melbourne:

Wow. Talk about going all out. Now, gaining Waite and Higgins isn't a problem as they didn't give up anything, but both have failed to live up to their potential in their careers and it's unclear what they add to North. Worse, it's cost them Greenwood, who had a great year last year, and the optics of these deals seem way too similar to Freo 06 and Lions 09 - history might not look kindly on this week. C

Congratulations, you've won a prize for most repeated myth. It did not cost us Greenwood. We offered him what we were prepared to pay, not what we could afford. If anything, what cost us was not offering him a better contract earlier in the year, not the recruitment of Higgins (and Waite).

 

[Kimbo]

Are you for real? How do tackle numbers prove anything?

Beams gets allot of tackles around the contest but he doesn't run both ways. Beams is a "cheater".

Levi Greenwood's two way running is one of his strengths.

Well, I think we can all agree Levi will be a star now that he's at Collingwood.

 

[Kimbo]

Winner - the Bulldogs membership department.
From looking ta a disaster of losing the captain/coach double, there is now a genuine no 1 developing key forward at the club; something that hasn't been there since Chris Grant.

While, of course, there is a risk factor in Boyd having little track record, all the signs are there. He wasn't a number one pick for nothing. As you've said, you guys have needed this role filled for, forever. I reckon you won on this deal.

 

[Kimbo]

If you went to both finals there were visible signs of an injury riddled team with little depth getting outplayed. We chose to cut guys like Pods, Chapman, Corey, Hunt and West to get time into young players. We can't rely on McCarthy, Thurlow and Walker yet. They all played against North. They're talented young players but nowhere near ready for finals at this stage but they'll be better for the experience. Mitch Brown also played and he's been delisted.

Basically we were massively understrength to start with and important players like Motlop and Taylor barely fired a shot in finals due to carrying niggles. We needed everything to go right last year and coming up to finals it didn't. Yet we were beaten by all of a goal by North and weren't humiliated by Hawthorn. Yes losing Bartel, Kelly, Mackie, Lonergan, Johnson, Enright, McIntosh, Stokes and Rivers in the next 3 years sounds daunting. But compared to replacing Ablett, Scarlett, Mooney, Milburn, Chapman, Podsiadly, Hunt, Wojcinski, Ottens, Harley, Egan, Ling and Rooke it shouldn't be anywhere near as hard.

We were starring at a massive cliff 4 years ago when Scott started. Every year the cliff's looked smaller and we've dropped away less than we expected. Now we're in the position where we've seen off most of the drop and there are a lot of improvements that we expect to see over the next few years. Again we'll need everything to go right to be any chance for the 2015 flag but our chances after that look brighter than any time recently.

Well expressed!

It gives me hope our (relatively mini) cliff of losing Harvey, Petrie and Wells (and now Dal Santo) can be managed. Mind you, we've had to do some mini top-ups with the likes of Waite and Higgins while we assess the longer term viability of some injured KPPs (Curran gone, Tarrant to be recast as a defender, if he makes it, and Delaney to the rookie list). List management ain't necessarily easy.

 

[_Irk]

Don't understand how Bulldogs can be winners traded pick 6 + Griffen top 10 midfielder at his best for Boyd 1M a year potential star ALA Scully how did that go for GWS? Paying that much for potential is idiotic especially when GWS were offering picks 4+7 for him so they essentially gave up picks 4, 6, and 7 for last years pick 1 on 1M a year. For all we know he could peak at 30-40 goals a year.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

GWS never offered 4 and 7 for Griffen.

 

[HARKER]

GWS never offered 4 and 7 for Griffen.

When push really came to shove, they likely would have and maybe not asked The Dogs to load up paying for Griffen's salary.

Reckon they were too committed to Griffen to back down.

 

[TedDougChris]

Don't understand how Bulldogs can be winners traded pick 6 + Griffen top 10 midfielder at his best for Boyd 1M a year potential star ALA Scully how did that go for GWS? Paying that much for potential is idiotic especially when GWS were offering picks 4+7 for him so they essentially gave up picks 4, 6, and 7 for last years pick 1 on 1M a year. For all we know he could peak at 30-40 goals a year.

Start at the beginning.

Griffen is gone - refuses to even speak to anyone at the club.
GWS are initially offering Pick 7 and a player.

Neither Pick 4 or 7 is guaranteed to get a KPF. Pick 3 isn't even guaranteed to get one, should the Saints and Dees go McCartin/Wright.

Also - Griff goes after Cooney, Jones and Higgins have all said they are going. So we now have an extra 1.6M available to us (lets say 600, 400, 300, 300).

Who could we have chased in the FA/trade period (I'll exclude the Dogs players here and just list the others): Frawley, Ryder, O'Rourke, Membrey, Cheney, Lowden, Beams, Christensen, Jaksch, Whiley, Crisp, Varcoe, Greenwood, Lumumba, Giles, Gwilt, Clark, Stanley, Hallahan, Malceski, Waite.

If you eliminate the FA's: Ryder, O'Rourke, Membrey, Cheney, Lowden, Beams, Christensen, Jaksch, Whiley, Crisp, Varcoe, Greenwood, Lumumba, Giles, Clark, Stanley, Hallahan.

If you eliminate those who nominated a specific club: O'Rourke, Membrey, Cheney, Lowden, Jaksch, Whiley, Crisp, Varcoe, Greenwood, Lumumba, Giles, Clark, Stanley, Hallahan.

We chased Greenwood and offered a better deal according to his manager. We also chased a KPD in Lonergan. The others are a mix of meh and maybes. Many are midfielders (which we don't really need) - the only key position players are: Membrey, Clark and Stanley.

Do any of the players above significantly improve on what we had this year ?? Don't forget, they aren't all GWS players - so they weren't going to end up part of the Griffen deal.

We've been denied access to the best talent due to GCS and GWS, who have hoarded all the KPP's. So we've targeted one (Boyd) and landed him. Are we paying a massive amount of coin ? You bloody bet we are. Is he a potential superstar ? - yes, he is. Compared to the final list above - who has the most potential upside to them ? It's Boyd by a fair margin. Forget the cash, because we can pay it and then some.

So while we clearly haven't won the trade period, we've turned a really shitty period into one of hope. Given the starting point or even midway point in the trade period, we've clearly turned the corner and accelerated upwards at a fantastic rate.

We've potentially fixed a massive structural weakness - albeit at a high price. It will take the pressure of Crameri - 30 - 40 goals per year and Stringer - who could reach that. If Boyd peaks at around 50 per year, that'll be 110 - 130 goals per year through our three main forwards. Add in some midfield goals and Dahlhaus/Hunter - that's not a bad scoring potential there..

If we'd lost Griffen and ended up with Cheney, Stanley and Lumumba - that'd be dark and desperate times. This way, there is a little bit of hope. Next year will be painful though I suspect.

 

[Kappa]

Feel like Bulldogs have literally put all their eggs in 1 basket

Better hope Boyd turns into an A grader, lots of super hyped number 1 draft picks turn into flops

 

[_Irk]

Start at the beginning.

Griffen is gone - refuses to even speak to anyone at the club.
GWS are initially offering Pick 7 and a player.

Neither Pick 4 or 7 is guaranteed to get a KPF. Pick 3 isn't even guaranteed to get one, should the Saints and Dees go McCartin/Wright.

Also - Griff goes after Cooney, Jones and Higgins have all said they are going. So we now have an extra 1.6M available to us (lets say 600, 400, 300, 300).

Who could we have chased in the FA/trade period (I'll exclude the Dogs players here and just list the others): Frawley, Ryder, O'Rourke, Membrey, Cheney, Lowden, Beams, Christensen, Jaksch, Whiley, Crisp, Varcoe, Greenwood, Lumumba, Giles, Gwilt, Clark, Stanley, Hallahan, Malceski, Waite.

If you eliminate the FA's: Ryder, O'Rourke, Membrey, Cheney, Lowden, Beams, Christensen, Jaksch, Whiley, Crisp, Varcoe, Greenwood, Lumumba, Giles, Clark, Stanley, Hallahan.

If you eliminate those who nominated a specific club: O'Rourke, Membrey, Cheney, Lowden, Jaksch, Whiley, Crisp, Varcoe, Greenwood, Lumumba, Giles, Clark, Stanley, Hallahan.

We chased Greenwood and offered a better deal according to his manager. We also chased a KPD in Lonergan. The others are a mix of meh and maybes. Many are midfielders (which we don't really need) - the only key position players are: Membrey, Clark and Stanley.

Do any of the players above significantly improve on what we had this year ?? Don't forget, they aren't all GWS players - so they weren't going to end up part of the Griffen deal.

We've been denied access to the best talent due to GCS and GWS, who have hoarded all the KPP's. So we've targeted one (Boyd) and landed him. Are we paying a massive amount of coin ? You bloody bet we are. Is he a potential superstar ? - yes, he is. Compared to the final list above - who has the most potential upside to them ? It's Boyd by a fair margin. Forget the cash, because we can pay it and then some.

So while we clearly haven't won the trade period, we've turned a really shitty period into one of hope. Given the starting point or even midway point in the trade period, we've clearly turned the corner and accelerated upwards at a fantastic rate.

We've potentially fixed a massive structural weakness - albeit at a high price. It will take the pressure of Crameri - 30 - 40 goals per year and Stringer - who could reach that. If Boyd peaks at around 50 per year, that'll be 110 - 130 goals per year through our three main forwards. Add in some midfield goals and Dahlhaus/Hunter - that's not a bad scoring potential there..

If we'd lost Griffen and ended up with Cheney, Stanley and Lumumba - that'd be dark and desperate times. This way, there is a little bit of hope. Next year will be painful though I suspect.

I understand what you're saying regarding the money for Boyd but wouldn't your other young stars want more coin if they see Boyd who has done pretty much nothing AFL wise compared to and recieve double or triple what they would earn per year. Well hope it works out well for you guys in the long run though. Could break or make the Bulldogs premiership hopes, will be watching his career with interest though.

Hope he's mentally strong or he might struggle being marketed as the saviour of the club.

 

[Asgardian]

In the spirit of trading to fix a glaring problem, obviously Port have done well.

 

[TedDougChris]

I understand what you're saying regarding the money for Boyd but wouldn't your other young stars want more coin if they see Boyd who has done pretty much nothing AFL wise compared to and recieve double or triple what they would earn per year. Well hope it works out well for you guys in the long run though. Could break or make the Bulldogs premiership hopes, will be watching his career with interest though.

Hope he's mentally strong or he might struggle being marketed as the saviour of the club.

Yeah, but the reported/rumoured salary is $1M per year. We've freed up 1.6M per year in space. That is before you take into account us only paying at 95% of the cap, which gives us another $0.5M. So next year is 2.1M free. If we run at 95% next year, we can run at 105% the following year, provide in the subsequent year we drop to 100% again. So, in 2016 we could spend an additional $0.5M

Boyd and Bontempelli are only getting the rookie amount (~ 200K) next year. If you ignore that we have to pay 95% of the salary cap this year - you could dump the entire 2.6M into Boyd's paycheck in 2016. Which would mean another 5 years on 800K ish... But that won't happen.

Next year will be Stringer and Macrae's third year on the list - so big salary increase for them next year, along with Libba, Wallis, Hunter and Hrovat etc. The following year you'll get big increases for Boyd and Bontempelli - and players like Boyd, Morris, Murphy and Minson will go gradually - freeing up some extra coin.

I'd imagine you'll have a peak year or two for Boyd, then ease his salary back. These guys are mates, so as long as we handle it well it should be ok. Bontempelli is already contracted until 2017, so I'm sure we'll be doing the sums and revising his terms and duration early next year. In terms of the club's saviour, we have plenty of talented kids that'll take some of the spotlight away from Boyd - I'm sure he'll be fine... Libba, Wallis, Hunter, Hrovat, Dahlhaus, Macrae, Stringer, Bontempelli, Boyd - it's a good start...

Everyone's concern on this issue is very touching, I must add....

 

[Blackas87]

Winners
Port - clear winner. Got exactly what they needed.
Doggies - took a punt. No risk no reward.
Cats - Got rid of trouble and tried to bolster their glaring hole of a second forward.

Losers
Go Dees - La Bomba and Garlett!! Dees are poor these types of players will drag them to the dizzy heights of mediocre.
GWS - Lost a heap of kids, never good.
Tigs - targeted a guy that cant walk.

I wouldn't think this is a loss to us, we've been pretty defensive under Paul Roos and we really lack any drive getting the ball forward.
Lumumba can give us that rebounding run and drive out of defence, the ball is always in our backline and we struggle to get it out so I think Lumumba would be quite handy for us.
Garlett has got that pace, can break the lines and kick goals, he has kick 39 goals a season 3 times, our leading goal kicker this year had 20, we were the lowest scoring team in the comp this year and now finding another way to hit the scoreboard in Garlett is a win in my book, and he didn't cost much, a pick 60's and another in the 70's that we wouldn't be using.
We also picked up Frost to replace Frawely as a key defender so I think we did well out of that.

If anything you can call a loss for the Dees is the fact we wanted more experienced midfielders and we didn't get any.

 

[Taylor]

Yeah, but the reported/rumoured salary is $1M per year. We've freed up 1.6M per year in space. That is before you take into account us only paying at 95% of the cap, which gives us another $0.5M. So next year is 2.1M free. If we run at 95% next year, we can run at 105% the following year, provide in the subsequent year we drop to 100% again. So, in 2016 we could spend an additional $0.5M

Boyd and Bontempelli are only getting the rookie amount (~ 200K) next year. If you ignore that we have to pay 95% of the salary cap this year - you could dump the entire 2.6M into Boyd's paycheck in 2016. Which would mean another 5 years on 800K ish... But that won't happen.

Next year will be Stringer and Macrae's third year on the list - so big salary increase for them next year, along with Libba, Wallis, Hunter and Hrovat etc. The following year you'll get big increases for Boyd and Bontempelli - and players like Boyd, Morris, Murphy and Minson will go gradually - freeing up some extra coin.

I'd imagine you'll have a peak year or two for Boyd, then ease his salary back. These guys are mates, so as long as we handle it well it should be ok. Bontempelli is already contracted until 2017, so I'm sure we'll be doing the sums and revising his terms and duration early next year. In terms of the club's saviour, we have plenty of talented kids that'll take some of the spotlight away from Boyd - I'm sure he'll be fine... Libba, Wallis, Hunter, Hrovat, Dahlhaus, Macrae, Stringer, Bontempelli, Boyd - it's a good start...

Everyone's concern on this issue is very touching, I must add....

I thought you were still paying Cooney and Griff next year?

 

[OrangeDuck]

Losers
GWS - Lost a heap of kids, never good.

When you list is like 80-90% kids you're obviously going to lose some. I really must disagree at the talk of GWS being big losers. I think we came out rather neutral if not only slightly in the red, but only slightly. It's very easy to look at it quantitatively, losing X and only getting Y but we have a large list that has to reduce slowly over time, we have a good core group of players which we will build a successful squad around. We haven't lost anything that was either too valuable or that we didn't already have other options for, bar probably Giles in the ruck.

 

[Taylor]

If there are a couple more years of first round players leaving to other AFL clubs in exchange for more first round selections GWS really will become the AFL academy for gifted youngsters.

 

[OrangeDuck]

If there are a couple more years of first round players leaving to other AFL clubs in exchange for more first round selections GWS really will become the AFL academy for gifted youngsters.

I think that's exactly how the Giants are going to be perceived for the next 12 months leading up to another trade period. This year could have been cleaning out the want-aways (Jaksch, O'Rourke, Boyd) while many forget that the pre-selections have all extended their time at the club twice (once upon reaching the AFL competition and again re-signing after the first 2 years). No doubt it will be tough for not only GWS but for the teams trying to pry out the young future superstars.

 

[TedDougChris]

I thought you were still paying Cooney and Griff next year?

Hard to say. Seen reports we are paying 200K for Griff next year up to his entire salary for the next 25 years... Bit hard to work out where we are actually at. Similar with Cooney.

Given Boyd and Bontempelli will only be on 2nd year wages, it's not the end of the world.

 

[doggies ftw]

Fixed

Cooney will never be at his best again its just not happening. Best you can expect from him now is probably similar to his 2013 output. Will be a good pick up for yous I reckon and will probably win a couple of games off his own boot and play a few blinders but don't be expecting him to get back to his best because it just aint happening.

I wouldn't have us in the 'winners' category, after losing our campaigner of a captain you just can't be a winner but I'm pretty bloody content with how we turned around our trade period, its really the trade period that had to be had. Cleaned out a s**t load of players who just didn't want to be here and also those players who just live their whole careers on 'potential'. Jones, Higgins, Tutt all taking us no where, Coons not a huge loss (but sad) and apparently we wanted to get him away from the club more for off field reasons anyway, Griffen obviously a huge lose short term but wouldn't be there for our next flag tilt anyway, then a fair bit of experience delisted/retired in Gia, Williams, Goodes, Austin etc.

So its definitely a whack in the short term but in 3 years I don't think we will be too worried whatsoever about any players who have left this trade period (possibly Jones, feel he could have been great alongside Boyd but whatever, doesn't seem to have the right attitude and theres every chance his career ends up very very similar to Jarrad Waite anyway).

We've then brought in the young KPF of our dreams to develop alongside our very good young core, he's really the last piece of the 'core' we were missing, just need to keep filling in the gaps now. A couple of free hits in Biggs and Hamling, who both fill a need and have a few years development in them but also a little bit of upside, happy with these two pick ups. And then we can still hit the draft pretty hard with picks 26, 27, 39, 45, 46 in a supposedly deep draft, should pick up some really handy players there.

Turned a very bad situation around IMO.