Peptides! *The * Dopers: come smell the bull****! ESSENDON FANS NOT WANTED

[Strapping Young Lad]

Hawthorn 2014 Premiers
Essendon disgraced for eternity

This year has been fantastic from a Hawthorn supporters point of view

Tell me about it. 2013 wasn't bad either.

 

[Gunstall555]

2 year bans...what are the odds do you think?

 

[Brishawk]

2 year bans...what are the odds do you think?

I expect a deal done so that hird goes to jail for player testimony and lessor penalties for players. ASADA have given multiple opportunities for the players to do deals. They know they have the players so I can only imagine they are after a bigger fish.

 

[Off The Couch]

Patience, CP.

The bomb has dropped, we await impact.

Enough with the bloody patience - I just want the executioner to arrive

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

This is the sort of stupidity that is encouraged and applauded by some of the Bomber posters.

And yes, CP, you know who wrote it.

I must be reading Chip's article a little differently to others. For mine it actually helps our case in some ways. Essentially we now have a scenario where we understand where ASADA is coming from.

So China is saying that the 26 vials contained TB4. So TB4 came into the country as ordered by CHARTERS (who was NEVER employed by EFC). TB4 then 'presumably' went to Alavi.. and then Alavi gave it to Dank and no one knows what really happened with it after that...

We also have Charters EXPRESSLY declaring that the substance was NOT for human use. So IF he has supplied it to Dank with the intention to 'treat' EFC players then he has broken a LEGAL contract/promise to the supplier. This should lead to criminal charges.

It is also possible that the TB4 was never meant for EFC... at all.. and hence why it never appeared on invoices (or it appeared and then was reversed) and why they can only track one very small shipment...

As others have said, I would be far more worried if, say, 6 players got SCN's.. and it directly related to one series of injections.. but the fact that 34 players got one suggests that even ASADA can't be sure who may, or may not, have got any potentially tainted injections.

Also.. the Chinese supplier can say "it was TB4".. but without independent tests verifying that.. ASADA will not have enough to prosecute (according to CAS).. when it has been shown that even a 'labelled bottle' was not enough to prove what a substance was.. there needs to be independent verification of the substance by some means.

The problem you have now is that both sides are equally invested in 'winning' to save face.. which could lead to a lengthy battle. I still think that some kind of deal that sees players miss 1-2 games is going to be appealing to the players.. it will suck big time.. be completely unfair but life sucks.

What an absolute dingbat.

 

[Argy]

This is the sort of stupidity that is encouraged and applauded by some of the Bomber posters.

And yes, CP, you know who wrote it.



What an absolute dingbat.

That's scary reading. [shudder]

 

[HawksonFire]

I have wondered over to the Essendon board now and again... insane stuff- but following the article in The Australian, the views, on the main, were finally coming across to the fact there would be bans... BUT, despite what they read about NOT TO BE USED ON HUMANS... they are all still saying **** you AFL and ***** you ASADA. I cannot believe how deluded they are that they cannot accept their club has done something wrong - its all someone else's fault. Just staggering, beyond belief. How can people get this way??? But Hird is a god and Dank will save them one day....

 

[Thrawn]

Martin Hardie back for the lolz. Trying to get McDevitt in trouble.

 

[play2win]

this situation puts the efc in a world of hurt above and beyond any of the players imo. There is some rationale that the players are penalised somewhat leniently and the club is smashed into oblivion along with the chain of command that were involved at the time. this could spell the end of the efc.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

I cannot believe how deluded they are that they cannot accept their club has done something wrong - its all someone else's fault. Just staggering, beyond belief. How can people get this way???

Essendon are exhibiting to the rest of the football community why it's not only impractical but also dangerous to place individual before club. Let this be a lesson to us all.

 

[Tuck In]

As much as this is fun to watch and laugh at them, it is shameful as what their senior leadership group at this institution undertook and have since tried to obsfucate. The sheer arrogance of their belief that they are still beyond the reach of full and truthful disclosure not to mention suitable punishment should compel them to the outside looking in for a long time. Their playing group, whilst probably "less guilty" than the true instigators, are professional athletes bound by regulations and hopefully personal responsibility.

The governing body must act in conjunction with ASADA and not just be seen to pay lip service to those found guilty but pass down effective penalties that discourage this organised drug ring and their like from ever compromising either a club and it's players or a whole sport again. Government agencies then need to act to further punish those found guilty of endangering those in their care by their actions and negligence. It is not that difficult but I won't hold my breath as apologists, lawyers, grandstanders and those with commercial vested interests create artificial solutions without either substance or meaning.

 

[Big A]

Enough with the bloody patience - I just want the executioner to arrive

On the contrary i hope they die a slow, slow, slow, tortcherous but in the end a pulverising death. Torture the scum and filth!

Best analogy i can think of right now is when they captured saddam hussain and to get him to talk - which he wouldnt, they would slap him every time he tried to sleep. After a few days of this he ended up talking hehe

 

[Sixpence]

As it is an individual award I don't see how he can keep it.

The AFL can at least retrospectively award it to Cotch and Mitch. Don't think ASADA/WADA have that power.

 

[grizzlym]

This is the sort of stupidity that is encouraged and applauded by some of the Bomber posters.

And yes, CP, you know who wrote it.



What an absolute dingbat.

Isn't a breach of contract civil law not criminal....

 

[Wandering Hawk]

Perhaps deliberate or reckless breach of contract in a healthcare or employer health role can be proof towards criminal negligence or other criminal charges.

If a doctor saws a leg off his patient in a hand operation its not just a civil breach of contract. it's potentially criminal. If he was shown to have been warned and signed off that leg sawing was not for humans, then it supports the contention that he was negligent and not merely mistaken.

 

[Blaze Storm]

Using drugs off-label in humans is a SERIOUS criminal offence. Surely if they believe that has happened, the only options would be a) doctors to be charged with malpractice, b) someone else to be charged with practicing medicine without a licence.

 

[Wandering Hawk]

Currently doctors don't have a monopoly on treatment mate. Alternate health practitioners can do whatsoever they want. Wave garlic and hum. They aren't even required to list the chemical ingredients or even maintain a constant dose from bottle to bottle of the same purported thing. But they do have to state that it's alternate and claim that it was a traditional remedy. Exactly what chemical compounds are in dried shark fin pills? It's a mess of a system.

When a company manufactures a synthetic chemical it must get a licence for medicinal uses from the therapeutic goods association, similar to the American FDA. This involves studies and safety claims. Otherwise such chemicals are listed not for human use. Administering such to others is a wilful exposure to known potential harm, as well as fraud or negligence.

A worksite needs to identify and minimise exposure to potential harms too. An injection program is probably culpable there as a dangerous work practise. The consent of the worker is immaterial to the breach. Exposure to a foreseeable hazard.

 

[Boot Studder]

Enough with the bloody patience - I just want the executioner to arrive

Sorry, CP, Boris the executioner is booked solid. We'll just have to enjoy the slow cooking of the Scum instead.

 

[Blaze Storm]

Currently doctors don't have a monopoly on treatment mate. Alternate health practitioners can do whatsoever they want. Wave garlic and hum. They aren't even required to list the chemical ingredients or even maintain a constant dose from bottle to bottle of the same purported thing. But they do have to state that it's alternate and claim that it was a traditional remedy. Exactly what chemical compounds are in dried shark fin pills? It's a mess of a system.

When a company manufactures a synthetic chemical it must get a licence for medicinal uses from the therapeutic goods association, similar to the American FDA. This involves studies and safety claims. Otherwise such chemicals are listed not for human use. Administering such to others is a wilful exposure to known potential harm, as well as fraud or negligence.

A worksite needs to identify and minimise exposure to potential harms too. An injection program is probably culpable there as a dangerous work practise. The consent of the worker is immaterial to the breach. Exposure to a foreseeable hazard.

This is true, however this applies to extracts and natural remedies. Synthesised and compounded pharmaceuticals are not covered under this protection. It's much the same as if you reproduced the chemical composition of shark fin pills based on mass-spec analysis and put them in a pill it would be illegal to market them. Similar to why you end up with "fruit drink" rather than juice.

 

[Wandering Hawk]

Agreed, hence second paragraph re synthesis.

If one claimed it was traditional, you could use a supplement without breaking the law (apart from the sporting doping rules) providing it wasn't synthetic. You are allowed to extract and refine hormones, oils etc.

However the problem is when you are an employer you are more restricted than mere personal use. You are seen as providing a coercive environment and thus must demonstrate the tested safety of everything you provide to your players, their consent notwithstanding.

It's legal to mine asbestos, but the employer is liable for an unsafe work site exposure even given the consent and knowledge of the miner and him agreeing to the risks. He can also be guilty of unsafe work culture without proof of occurrence of any resultant incident.

 

[Wundo]

Look at the team he was on, look at his mate George Hincapie,im not saying one way or the other but to say he was the "cleanest" would be fine. As clean as theyre gonna get. No one wins the tour without a little help

There is no way Cadel has ever, or would ever dope. Wash your mouth out! That "help" comes in the form of experience, hard work from his team and until only recently, the highest VO2MAX ever scored at the AIS. I'd card you if I could.

 

[Xtreme]

I would be crushed if Cadal was ever outed as a drug cheat

I hold him in the same esteem as someone like Pat Rafter, someone who worked extremely hard and was able to beat the world's best, good natured person while still being a competitive beast. Not having a bad word to say about (especially in the no cheating front), good sportsmen who can inspire people to be better etc.

 

[kenneje]

This is the sort of stupidity that is encouraged and applauded by some of the Bomber posters.

And yes, CP, you know who wrote it.



What an absolute dingbat.

 

[Rioli2Gunstall]

There is no way Cadel has ever, or would ever dope. Wash your mouth out! That "help" comes in the form of experience, hard work from his team and until only recently, the highest VO2MAX ever scored at the AIS. I'd card you if I could.

Lance Armstrong also has superhuman traits like the lung capacity etc etc all the natural gifts a man could want to be the best in the world and yet he always needed that extra. I dont know with Cadel one way or the other and he is certainly a hero of mine, as is Lance. If there was ever a clean winner in the last 30 years Cadel is the only chance for sure. The tests of froome/ wiggans are laughable. They will go down at some stage. Its just teh nature of the sport unfortunately that cyclists can never be looked at as clean with the history, its quite incredible.

 

[grumbleguts]

The delusion sprouted by the essendon supporters in this whole saga is akin to pulling in your stomach when you step on the scales.