Who is the No. 1 number one?

TN25

Premiership Player
Suspended
Sep 8, 2014
3,349
1,737
Melbourne
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Scorchers, Glory, Southampton
In all seriousness I'd take Riewoldt over Ablett, unpopular view that may be. When we got both Buddy and Roughead as they matured we instantly won a grand final in their 3rd or 4th year, that shows why you take the tall every single time.
Hodge is a better player and leader, and a big game player unlike Riewoldt in his GF's, but he's not a centre half forward. Replace Riewoldt with Hodge and they wouldn't even make a grand final. Albeit vice versa 3 talls choking on GF day to go with Roughead (woah hey finally had a good one against Syd) and Buddy would make it hard ....
Ablett wasn't a number one draft pick
 
Jan 7, 2011
35,109
71,503
Heaven. I mean Victoria.
AFL Club
St Kilda
Even as a Hawks fan I'd probably pick Riewoldt. It's harder to find a great tall than a great mid. The thing that keeps it closest is that if Riewoldt had two Norm Smiths the Saints probably have two flags in 09/10. I seem to remember him being absolutely mugged by the Cats defenders in 09?
I think he was adequate in 2009, but the mail was that he did a quad or something a couple of days before the game and then of course it was a slippery/greasy day, which made it all the more difficult for anyone to get much done overhead, for either team. No-one took more than 5 marks that day (which is how many he took, to go with 13 possies and a goal).

Was poor in the 2 GF's v Collingwood though, albeit that was the year he ripped his hammy off the bone and missed a few months of footy.
 

Ichabod Noodle

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 13, 2011
9,402
14,248
The Riff
AFL Club
GWS
Other Teams
Raiders, Brumbies
One thing I noticed... Jaeger O'Meara was not a number 1 draft pick - he may very well have gone first but he didn't.

There is also no way on God's green earth that Jeremy Cameron would have gone number 1. We all know how good he is now but look at his pedigree when he would have been drafted. Didn't touch a football until he was 15. Before that he was a junior golfer. Played half a season in the Dartmore reserves and half a year of TAC where he played mostly across half back.

Stand back and take the name and the hindsight out of it and ask yourself, would your club spend its first pick (let alone the first pick overall) on a possible defender with a golfing background who only picked up a footy two and a half years earlier?

You look at a kid like that and think 'project player' not first rounder let alone first pick.
 

Trav 20

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 5, 2004
10,677
9,533
Idiots get ignored
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Dees
... however premierships are compelling aspects in favour of Hodge.

Premierships shouldn't be a factor. Clay Sampson and Steven Armstrong played in premierships among countess other ordinary players.

Bobby Skilton won 9 B&Fs, 3 Brownlows and played in one final. One of the greatest players of all time.

If one can't evaluate players on the entirety of their careers there's something wrong. I agree that playing well in finals adds weight to a players career, but it can't be the determining factor.

In any case, Riewoldt has played on the biggest stage a number of times.
 
Jan 7, 2011
35,109
71,503
Heaven. I mean Victoria.
AFL Club
St Kilda
Yeah, I mean would it have really made all that much difference if Lenny Hayes's kick had bounced into Milne's lap and he kicked the goal that won us the 2010 flag, or if Tom Hawkins poster had been called a point instead of a goal, which they then followed up with another within a minute (in a very close and low scoring game) and we had won in 2009 as well? If we had had just a couple of bits of luck and won those two flags would that really make Nick Riewoldt better than he is now, with no flags?

As for Cameron, GWS had obviously seen enough in Cameron to spend one of their precious preselections on him and when you consider how good he was in his first season in the AFL, can you imagine how well he would have gone the year before, if he had been playing TAC Cup footy, which he would have been had he not been one of those preselections?
 

Carlo

Club Legend
Aug 29, 2013
1,050
961
AFL Club
Essendon
Roo hands down for me, Followed by Hodge and Goddard.

Also Cooney the only Brownlow medalist.
 
Premierships shouldn't be a factor. Clay Sampson and Steven Armstrong played in premierships among countess other ordinary players.

Bobby Skilton won 9 B&Fs, 3 Brownlows and played in one final. One of the greatest players of all time.

If one can't evaluate players on the entirety of their careers there's something wrong. I agree that playing well in finals adds weight to a players career, but it can't be the determining factor.

In any case, Riewoldt has played on the biggest stage a number of times.

You've contradicted yourself.

Of course premierships are part of what we consider when discussing the best of the best ... of course premierships are not the determinant of a players career ... but nowhere can you find I said they were.

What I did say was that "premierships are compelling aspects in favour" of a player ... THAT does not mean you ignore all other aspects
 

Trav 20

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 5, 2004
10,677
9,533
Idiots get ignored
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Dees
You've contradicted yourself.

Of course premierships are part of what we consider when discussing the best of the best ... of course premierships are not the determinant of a players career ... but nowhere can you find I said they were.

What I did say was that "premierships are compelling aspects in favour" of a player ... THAT does not mean you ignore all other aspects

No, I haven't. It's not a determining factor in who has been the best pick 1.

But yes, players careers are to some degree measured by their personal performance in finals or in the old days state games. I'd argue however that having no premiership next to your name means little if you've performed well in finals. If you've constantly spudded it up in finals it will most certainly go against you.

Btw, the comments in bold were far more compelling. You know, because they were in bold.
 
As for Cameron, GWS had obviously seen enough in Cameron to spend one of their precious preselections on him and when you consider how good he was in his first season in the AFL, can you imagine how well he would have gone the year before, if he had been playing TAC Cup footy, which he would have been had he not been one of those preselections?

I'll state up front that I love Cameron, but the preselections really were hit and miss and hardly "precious". The GC used one of their's on a guy that didn't even commit to AFL. GWS used one of their's on a guy who went home before the Giants had even played an AFL game. I don't have the figures in front of me, but at least a third of each team's preselections are no longer with that team and it wouldn't surprise me if it's up at 50%. There was absolutely some gold but there were a lot of misses as well, as you'd expect for picking players a year out.
 
No, I haven't. It's not a determining factor in who has been the best pick 1.

But yes, players careers are to some degree measured by their personal performance in finals or in the old days state games. I'd argue however that having no premiership next to your name means little if you've performed well in finals. If you've constantly spudded it up in finals it will most certainly go against you.

Btw, the comments in bold were far more compelling. You know, because they were in bold.

:rolleyes:

No, I haven't. ... :cry:

WTF?????????

Are you a closet crows supporter?
 

Trav 20

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 5, 2004
10,677
9,533
Idiots get ignored
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Dees
:rolleyes:

No, I haven't. ... :cry:

WTF?????????

Are you a closet crows supporter?

I probably didn't express myself as well as I should have. Playing in premierships definitely impacts a players legacy and their standing in footy, but it wouldn't be an overriding factor for me in measuring a total career and shouldn't overly influence decisions made on who was the best number 1.

Robbie Flower is the greatest wingman I've seen and he played in 3 finals and no grand finals.
 

t_94

Premiership Player
May 6, 2014
4,431
7,475
AFL Club
St Kilda
Was it just me or a couple of years ago people we're claiming murphy as a the form player of the competition? I really enjoy watching him in full flight, very classy player. Is it just injuries that haven't seen him able to maintain that level or other factors at play that people could shed some light on? Obviously he's not at the hodge/ riewoldt level though.
 
May 28, 2013
25,313
27,132
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Seattle Seahawks
Are you serious? We're discussing number 1 picks, not top picks in general. Amongst other number 1s, Lids has some of the best natural attributes around. He could never quite live up to the hype though, which was huge at the time. Please point out what is biased about that?
If you think he could have been better than Carey, Matthews and Ablett Snr & Jnr then you are clearly biased and confused - which is a bad mix.
 
May 28, 2013
25,313
27,132
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Seattle Seahawks
Christ, do I need to define the word 'potential' for you?

Ridiculous argument this.
Ridiculous comment.

He could reach his potential and still fall well short of those I named. Lucky this is not a thread about the number 2 draft picks. If you rate Deledio this highly I worry to think of how you rate Cotchin.
 

Stylo

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 17, 2011
7,955
21,271
AFL Club
Richmond
Ridiculous comment.

He could reach his potential and still fall well short of those I named. Lucky this is not a thread about the number 2 draft picks. If you rate Deledio this highly I worry to think of how you rate Cotchin.

Oh piss off. Remind me to never make a remotely positive comment about any Richmond player again.
 
May 20, 2014
20,824
26,452
AFL Club
Geelong
Obviously a choice between Riewoldt & Hodge, both deserve the number one spot ... however premierships are compelling aspects in favour of Hodge.

The gap between Riewoldt and Hodge as a player is big enough for premierships not to come into the equation. If you were debating Hodge and Goddard, then you can defer to premierships to pick Hodge.

So many "utilities" as #1. The safe bet to get an above average player, not many become superstars however.
 

bc27

Club Legend
Nov 5, 2014
1,734
5,004
AFL Club
Richmond
1st tier;
(1) Nick Riewoldt, (2) Luke Hodge, (3) Brendon Goddard

2nd tier;
(1) Brett Deledio, (2) Adam Cooney, (3) Marc Murphy, (4) Bryce Gibbs, (5) Josh Fraser

3rrd tier;
(1) Matthew Kreuzer, (2) Jack Watts, (3) Tom Scully

since 2010; (too early to tell)
(1) David Swallow, (2) Jono Patton, (3) Lachie Whitfield, (4) Tom Boyd
Whitfield could be ahead of Patton so far, Patton's knees scare me.
You're kidding right?
Goddard is no where near the same class as Roo hodgey. He is a whining sook and shreds his team mates to pieces on the field. He has never been a real A grade footballer. I'd put Goddard in the next bracket of players and I'd say 95% of the footy public would also.
 

12Chill

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 13, 2014
5,270
12,395
AFL Club
St Kilda
You're kidding right?
Goddard is no where near the same class as Roo hodgey. He is a whining sook and shreds his team mates to pieces on the field. He has never been a real A grade footballer. I'd put Goddard in the next bracket of players and I'd say 95% of the footy public
would also.

I laughed so hard at Goddard "never being an A grade footballer". Absolute LOL. And no, he isn't on the same level as Roo and Hodge, that's why he's behind them both. He is way ahead of Deledio, Murphy and Gibbs. Cooney too, although that might have been different if Cooney got over his injuries, has never been the same since his Brownlow year sadly.

You could push the second tier down to third and put Goddard in the new 2nd tier, definitely behind Roo and Hodge but he was and is a very very good footballer. Deledio and the others are not close to him.
 
I laughed so hard at Goddard "never being an A grade footballer". Absolute LOL. And no, he isn't on the same level as Roo and Hodge, that's why he's behind them both. He is way ahead of Deledio, Murphy and Gibbs. Cooney too, although that might have been different if Cooney got over his injuries, has never been the same since his Brownlow year sadly.

You could push the second tier down to third and put Goddard in the new 2nd tier, definitely behind Roo and Hodge but he was and is a very very good footballer. Deledio and the others are not close to him.
+1. BJ became elite in 09-10 imo.
 
The gap between Riewoldt and Hodge as a player is big enough for premierships not to come into the equation. If you were debating Hodge and Goddard, then you can defer to premierships to pick Hodge.

So many "utilities" as #1. The safe bet to get an above average player, not many become superstars however.

When you look at elite players, it's always good to see how they win games with their own force of will, pushing their teams over the line.
 
Back