NRL's Stadium plan for Sydney - What does it mean for the AFL?

[RUNVS]

Exclusive: NRL chief Dave Smith’s plan to crash tackle ANZ Stadium and build bigger Allianz arena
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...er-allianz-arena/story-fnniow7v-1227131329383

THE NRL is lobbying Premier Mike Baird to build a new 65,000-seat Allianz Stadium at Moore Park, making it Sydney’s pre-eminent sports arena instead of Sydney Olympic Park’s ANZ.

The word is that NRL chief Dave Smith is also urging the government to consider building a new 40,000-seat, fully-roofed stadium at Parramatta.

These moves would spell the death knell for the former Olympic stadium, which is hoping the government will fund about $250 million of its $350 million redevelopment plan released this week.

In a sign the NRL will be a serious player in Sydney’s stadium battle, a well-placed source has revealed that Smith is giving the Sydney Cricket and Sports Ground Trust $750,000 to fund half of a new “concept design evaluation” for Allianz.

Work on the study has apparently already begun, assessing two options: refurbishing the existing Allianz stadium with between 45,000 and 55,000 seats or demolishing it and building a new 65,000-seat facility.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...er-allianz-arena/story-fnniow7v-1227131329383

Alright if the NRL gets what it wants here what does that mean for the AFL? It essentially means that ANZ Stadium will need to be demolished as there is no way it can be affordable with only the Swans playing there 3 times a year. What does that mean for the Swans who use ANZ Stadium to get a better deal from the SCG and what does it mean for GWS whose home stadium is only a walking distance from ANZ Stadium?

 

[telsor]

2 options for the Swans.

1) Commit to ANZ, and the stadium gets downsized to save on costs.
2) ANZ gets trashed entirely, and Swans play at SCG. (perhaps you can use the GWS ground as a negotiating tool).

3 stadiums for 2 teams was never viable, and nobody really seems happy with ANZ.


Mind you, I'd assume the NSW government would recognise that ANZ would become a white elephant if they approved the NRLs proposal, and would probably be reluctant on that basis.

 

[bombersfan4000]

2 options for the Swans.

1) Commit to ANZ, and the stadium gets downsized to save on costs.
2) ANZ gets trashed entirely, and Swans play at SCG. (perhaps you can use the GWS ground as a negotiating tool).

3 stadiums for 2 teams was never viable, and nobody really seems happy with ANZ.


Mind you, I'd assume the NSW government would recognise that ANZ would become a white elephant if they approved the NRLs proposal, and would probably be reluctant on that basis.

they are a joke in Sydney. quite happy just to burn through tax payers money,
Allianz opened in 1988 & had upgrades over the years
ANZ opened in only 2000
& they are currently both outdated

gee that means, Etihad stadium is due for upgrades & the Great southern stand at the MCG to be torn down & a new one built!

 

[james brayshaw]

What a ridiculous waste of money.

 

[Eugenio94]

GWS should stay at skoda and skoda only
Swans should not touch anz - their fan base doesnt travel, infact eastern and northern suburbs people in general dont travel
if anything and th swans wanted to explore new opportunities they should look to do something (not nexessarily play games just yet) at north sydney oval.. set up a base or something

 

[RUNVS]

GWS should stay at skoda and skoda only
Swans should not touch anz - their fan base doesnt travel, infact eastern and northern suburbs people in general dont travel
if anything and th swans wanted to explore new opportunities they should look to do something (not nexessarily play games just yet) at north sydney oval.. set up a base or something

Really upgrading Sydney Showgrounds was a mistake. The AFL should have forked out the extra money and upgraded Blacktown as that is a much better location for GWS in almost all respects.

 

[bombersfan4000]

GWS should stay at skoda and skoda only
Swans should not touch anz - their fan base doesnt travel, infact eastern and northern suburbs people in general dont travel
if anything and th swans wanted to explore new opportunities they should look to do something (not nexessarily play games just yet) at north sydney oval.. set up a base or something

skoda/ spotless stadium is a nice venue, similar to Metricon.
as long as Mike Fitzpatrick is chairman of the AFL, the AFL will use ANZ stadium. its a shame because the SCG now holds 48k & is a nice stadium

 

[tandino]

Stadium Australia is privately owned is it not?

 

[bombersfan4000]

Stadium Australia is privately owned is it not?

yes, but they have applyed for government funding as well. its a different mentality up there where the government, has handed out million to stadiums & club grounds for decades for political points & various other reasons

 

[desie]

they are a joke in Sydney. quite happy just to burn through tax payers money,
Allianz opened in 1988 & had upgrades over the years
ANZ opened in only 2000
& they are currently both outdated

Allianz Stadium has never had a dollar spent on it, I'm not sure what you're talking about.

ANZ's problem is that all of the content providers hate it, that's before you factor in the sporting public.

NSW benchmarks last on stadia infrastructure amongst mainland states, the one option the NSW government can't afford to take is to do nothing.

FWIW, the content of this article is very close to the mark....

 

[bombersfan4000]

Allianz Stadium has never had a dollar spent on it, I'm not sure what you're talking about.

ANZ's problem is that all of the content providers hate it, that's before you factor in the sporting public.

NSW benchmarks last on stadia infrastructure amongst mainland states, the one option the NSW government can't afford to take is to do nothing.

FWIW, the content of this article is very close to the mark....

Sydney Football Stadium was built upon the former Sydney Sports Ground in Moore Park, and the former SCG No 2 adjacent to the existing SCG. Both were owned by the SCG Trust. Its seating capacity was 41,159, but after numerous expansions, today stands at 45,500, although the venue's official record attendance for a sporting event stands at 43,967, set on
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_Football_Stadium

ANZ is only 15 years old, how the hell can the government spend hundreds of millions on something. then so soon it be so out dated!

NSW has many stadiums that get only used a handful of times a year, but still spends million on up dating them. To spend such large amount of money on upgrading stadium, as well as proposed new 40k stadiums in Parramatta, Liverpool & Penrith expect 500 million for a stadium out there! spending such large amounts of money is a joke, when there are many more important matters, like the government is in debt & a country pretty much going through a recession, cutting money from health and education.
just because SA & WA finally get a decent stadium in their states, the morons in Sydney get all Jealous, expect & demand upgrades. The main codes that will use those stadiums is the NRL, their crowd levels are a joke, so to consider spending such large amounts of money is idiotic!

 

[desie]

After numerous expansions?

It's the same as the day it was built.

The government spent $100 million on ANZ, a fraction of what it cost to build. Stadiums have a shelf life of about 30 years before they require refurbishment, so it's relevant to have this conversation given that the asset will be returned to government in 15 years.

They no longer spend money on suburban grounds, and to suggest that any new Western Sydney stadium in Liverpool or Penrith will cost $500 million is ridiculous.

If you want to continue to attract major events to your state and keep what you already have, you need to invest in stadia.

The only meaningful investment in NSW over the last 15 years has been the SCG redevelopment, and yields in the new areas have increased by 300%.

 

[Kappa]

Why can't the swans play all their home games at the SCG? Much better to watch on TV and better for the fans going to the games

 

[bombersfan4000]

After numerous expansions?

It's the same as the day it was built.

The government spent $100 million on ANZ, a fraction of what it cost to build. Stadiums have a shelf life of about 30 years before they require refurbishment, so it's relevant to have this conversation given that the asset will be returned to government in 15 years.

They no longer spend money on suburban grounds, and to suggest that any new Western Sydney stadium in Liverpool or Penrith will cost $500 million is ridiculous.

If you want to continue to attract major events to your state and keep what you already have, you need to invest in stadia.

The only meaningful investment in NSW over the last 15 years has been the SCG redevelopment, and yields in the new areas have increased by 300%.

several expansions says wikipedia!
Stadium Australia is 14 years old ffs
Etihad has an expected lifespan of 50 to 70 years!
ANZ trust want to spend 350 million in doing it up (Etihad was built around the same time, what has been done to it?)
the SCG has just had several hundred million spent on it
Allianz already been proposed 250 million

parramatta stadium
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/...to-upgrade-pirtek-stadium-20140426-zqzzv.html

Liverpool stadium
http://sportsbusinessinsider.com.au/news/the-worlds-most-functional-stadium-for-western-sydney/

Penrith Stadium
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/penrith-may-build-500m-sport-stadium-20140411-36ij2.html

there are plans as well to up the capacity of the Newcastle stadium to a 40k all seater (the Newcastle Knights averaged 14k last season)
many of the club grounds have have received million in funding as well over the years, but cannot be bothered looking it up


allianz should have another 20 years in it & ANZ another 30 years. with some up dates easily. the NRL are desperate to catch the AFL on crowds that the NRL have never had! because all of a sudden it will solve their pathetic crowd problem!
if nearly all of the money came through private investment, they can do what they want.
why should taxpayer money be used so freely on investment like stadiums that aren't really that old, when the country is going through a recession. shut down hospitals, cut education & basic services, just so NSW can built another new stadium that will be filled 3 times a year! FFS

 

[bradrowe#32]

Not trying to be facetious, but why do they need a 65k stadium when the NRL's attendance average is 16k per match?

 

[Speck]

Not trying to be facetious, but why do they need a 65k stadium when the NRL's attendance average is 16k per match?

Exactly my initial thoughts. Refurbish the existing sure to make it nicer, but building a new 65k stadium is a joke when they rarely reach half of capacity let alone full capacity.

 

[Kwality]

Not trying to be facetious, but why do they need a 65k stadium when the NRL's attendance average is 16k per match?

The NRL are stuck in the pre ground rationalisation days, still playing at the equivalent of Vic Park, Windy Hill & they battle club self interest to make decisions in the best interest of the game.
Self interest similar to that the AFL faces dealing with a bunch of clubs that cant pull a crowd unless they play another Melbourne club.

 

[Rob]

Not trying to be facetious, but why do they need a 65k stadium when the NRL's attendance average is 16k per match?

Probably just an ambit claim. Ask for 65k and then settle on 40-50k.

Although isn't the suggestion that it replace the SFS? So I don't really understand it.

Especially given ANZ easily has the highest NRL regular season crowd average in Sydney (which is still only just 20k). It's just not as hated as everyone tries to pretend. It's just that 20k in an 80k stadium looks rubbish, yet 10k in some suburban hell hole looks mostly full.

 

[Kwality]

Just by way of comparison the Sea Eagles have plans for their home beyond just NRL. In its current form with a 20k crowd the joint rocks.
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...d-brookvale-oval/story-fni3gnk1-1227105129595

For the uninitiated here is a link because geography is a factor in attending games in Sydney more so than the traditional AFL states
https://www.google.com.au/maps/plac...1s0x6b12aa5c1b01e6eb:0xf68b5a2be7efea3e?hl=en

 

[desie]

Not trying to be facetious, but why do they need a 65k stadium when the NRL's attendance average is 16k per match?

Because under this scenario, Allianz would become the largest stadium in Sydney, ANZ would be bought back by the government and eventually demolished. Losing much more than 15,000 off total capacity for the big events becomes a difficult sell and makes the attraction of major events problematic, hence the 65,000.

Part of the reason the NRL struggles to build their crowds is because facilities across suburban grounds provide a poor experience.

It's this small minded parochial thinking that continues to hold that game back.

The soon to be released State Infrastructure Strategy will refer to stadia investment, it's only the final profiling that has yet to be decided.

 

[RUNVS]

The AFL needs to be careful here as things have the potential to go pear shaped in a number of areas. For instance what will happen to the area around ANZ Stadium if ANZ Stadium is demolished, what bargaining power will the Swans have with the SCG if ANZ Stadium is not there and how would Moore Park be affected by a new stadium or a significant upgrade to the SFS.

 

[Admiral Byng]

They no longer spend money on suburban grounds, and to suggest that any new Western Sydney stadium in Liverpool or Penrith will cost $500 million is ridiculous.

If they are after a 40,000 seater with a full-span roof, I'd say $500 million is probably an underestimate.

 

[RUNVS]

They no longer spend money on suburban grounds, and to suggest that any new Western Sydney stadium in Liverpool or Penrith will cost $500 million is ridiculous.

Also Liverpool and Penrith are no easier to get to than Homebush. Penrith takes forever by train as it is at the end of a reasonably isolated rail line and to get to Liverpool by train most people will have to change trains at least once and the traffic in that region can be appalling.

 

[desie]

If they are after a 40,000 seater with a full-span roof, I'd say $500 million is probably an underestimate.

It will be 30,000, not 40, and at $10k per seat you're looking at $300-$350 million.

 

[desie]

Also Liverpool and Penrith are no easier to get to than Homebush. Penrith takes forever by train as it is at the end of a reasonably isolated rail line and to get to Liverpool by train most people will have to change trains at least once and the traffic in that region can be appalling.

If you live in the south-west growth corridor or the outer west it's not, and with 3 million people living in Western Sydney by 2031, that's who a third stadium would service.