List Mgmt. 2014 Draft Trade FA Megathread

[SaintsSeptember]

Didnt McCartin have some sought of injury (?) and didnt test at the combine? That in itself says it all for me!

http://www.saints.com.au/news/2014-09-30/afl-combine-day-1-wrap-up
One of these tests is called the Saccadic Fixator, a challenging examination of a player’s concentration, competitiveness and peripheral vision.

Any score of 40 or more is considered elite, and Vic Country key forward Patrick McCartin’s score of 44 today turned heads, while medium sized midfielder Jack Steele’s 48 was the best of the afternoon.
______________________________________________________
So he was there, but may well have been limited.

 

[holllywood]

Big Mart,

Far from the finished product so the talk about his body shape is nonsense. He could even grow a few CMs as he is only 18 and give him a few preseasons and he will be able to run as much as the likes of Hawkins, Tex Walker or Josh Kennedy. Not as much as a midfielder but enough to hold structure when we don't have the ball and lead and present (not just in our f50) when we do have the ball.

And obviously he is going to contribute by being at the end of the ball....he is a KPF....that's how they contribute. But let's forget his ability to take pack marks or split packs or any of his other good attributes.

And focus on his body shape.

 

[Hayes4PM]

Pick 1, St Kilda






Jarrod Pickett

 

[Defacto]

Pick 1, St Kilda






Jarrod Pickett

Hell yeah!!!!! I'd be stoked!!!

 

[aussierulesrules]

Paige uploaded a new podcast - Basic spiel for us.

- Great year to have multiple picks where we have them

- Pick number one some people think Petracca, Petracca, Petracca. Discusses Sam McLure this afternoon regarding Paddy McCartin. She said that we can't complain with taking either and we will get a quality player with either. Paige said she would take McCartin due to the face that their is no key position talent in the next few years equal to McCartin. Said she is not Elshaug or Bains and it wouldn't be an easy decision. It gives the Saints a gun 10-15 year forward meaning we can load up on midfielders with picks 21 & 22. McCartin has had a really bad run of luck more than anything else with getting his foot stepped on etc. If McCartin had a full bill of health the entire year he could have produced a lot. Ridculous ability to take big contested grabs and its something that the Saints could build a team around, someone you want to add to that is a McCartin type. This would be looking at the bigger picture. Says the more she thinks about it the more she likes it with Paddy going to the Saints.

- Discusses Nick Riewoldt and if McCartin lands at St Kilda he will be able to learn off the best key forward of the modern era. Someone like McCartin would be able to develop under Nick Riewoldt closely.

- Pick 21/22 is good picks to have, Corey Ellis could be one that slides through. Ability around the stoppages first class, good contested ball and tackling, nothing flashy about him and doesn't have much X-Factor, just gives complete service.

- Another one is Tom Lamb, talk he will go to Essendon at pick 17, has a lot of upside. Bottom age year sensational, was a little bit overwhelmed with the pressure that has come over him this year and as a result he has struggled this year. Similar to Pat Vezpremi in 2007 draft with the reading in his body language etc. Lots of internal pressure with Tom Lamb on himself. Woeful field kicking. She would back the Saints and their development to get him right and he would fight into the forward line/midfield well. Blue print of the modern midfielder.

- Other options, Dan McKenzie, has a knack for finding another gear in big games. Doesn't get much possession but dominated qualifying final. Great athleticism. Physically and mentally put his opponents to the sword. The Saints would be good to mould him.

- Alex Neal Bullen been around this range for most of the year. Played a lot at Glenelg, similar to Dane Swan type. Deceptively quick and slots in nicely amongst bigger bodies. Takes hits and dishes them out. One of the best inside midfielders available at this years draft and is good at using the ball on the outside. Neal Bullen is a poor mans Petracca as they share similar attributes. Able to hit the score board as well. They might think if they get McCartin at one he would play well next to Dunstan. Massive beep test and sub 10 3k time trial. Really rare for a player to go to another level to go to another level after National Championships, ANB stats tell the story, averaging 15 disposals pre Championships, up to 24-25 post championships.

- Pick 41 will be a really interesting option. Trying to find gems in the 40s and there on. Good opportunity to find someone late who could come good. Would the Saints look at Ahmed Saad. Paige suggests Jack Lonie, she likes him cos she is taller than him. He would also be able to bring excitement to the Saints and can create opportunities to. Good avenue to goal and masters the ability to play front and centre. It would be good to have McCartin playing forward and Lonie crumbing at his feet, they had great chemistry in the championships.

- Jayden McGrath, injury concerns this year.

- Lots of talk on the Petracca/McCartin issue. Could be a massive beat up and that the Saints have got the journos to take the heat off Petracca over the next couple of days. AFL have requested the Saints to keep it a secret and she feels the Saints would have done this so doesn't understand the leak. Either way this is going to memorable draft.

PS - This went a lot longer than I anticipated when I started typing

Top stuff, thanks for taking the time to share that with us.

I can't believe that no one is talking about Dean Gore.

People seem keen on ANB (and hey, I like him too) as he's an inside mid with a monster tank, but Gore is a beast of a kid at 183/86, like ANB has mixed it with senior players at SANFL level with aplomb and is surprisingly adept on the outside.

Where ANB runs a 15-plus beep and sub-10 minute 3km however, Gore runs 'only' a 14-or so beep, but a sub-3 second 20mtrs. He's more a burst player than a grinding runner like ANB, and had a top-10 standing vertical jump.

He's a beauty.

I've mentioned him a few times since he did so well at the combine and I started researching him a bit, but I get the feeling that he might just be considered not quite as good as the likes of ANB and Blakely and as such I don't think we'll take him at 21 or 22. I've been hoping we might be able to nab him at 41, but the mail is that WB have interviewed him multiple times and that he is a strong chance to be gone by 41.

Just saying

"McCartin first made a splash at the 2013 National Championships for Vic Country, kicking five goals from 11 marks in the loss to South Australia at Simonds Stadium. While the world was talking about soon to be number one pick Tom Boyd, draft enthusiasts were quick to think ahead to 2014 and it’s for that reason now why McCartin sits, for some, as their number one pick. Although he crashes packs, throws his weight around and is known to clunk some spectacular pack marks, McCartin is a smiling assassin, an aerial threat, a contested-marking monster and a player who’ll take you to the cleaners if you allow him to play one-out in the square."

Either way I'm not fussed - they are both excellent prospects

I'm pretty sure the club will know about the backlash for taking McCartin over Petracca. Seeing how this board has reacted to a journalist reporting some unverified information someone at the club has to be worried about it and hence pushing for Petracca to be picked.

If the club decides to go with McCartin in spite of the inevitable supporter backlash they would have to be very confident in doing so.

If we are intending to take Paddy and have in fact leaked this info, that might just explain why we have taken the extraordinary step of leaking this sort of thing (which is pretty much unheard of). To soften the blow for us and the club. A bit like how loads of stuff on Watters was leaked prior to him being sacked. Had we just sacked Watters out of the blue, without any of that stuff leaking out first, all hell would have broken loose (especially if we didn't really give any reasons at the following presser, as we didn't with Watters) and perhaps the club were concerned the same would have been the case had we gone against all expectations and overlooked Petracca.

 

[gilbert the best]

as I see it, the closer to draft day it gets, the more crazy and insane the posts on here are getting, people need to sit back and stop posting rubbish for the sake of posting it. the saints will take patracca , if, like they say they take the best available, after that its out of their control, patacca is the best and will go number one . do the saints need more egg on their face.

 

[VDS66]

Please quote where I wrote that BS.

As i recall I have quoted numerous times that we just signed a 6 times AA and 5 B&F winner.

If thats not winning anything dont know what is.

So dont make things up please.

I said Riewoldt did not win a premiership and Judd did. While obviously not contextual and comparing apples with oranges, it was in response to your view talls are better than mids.

My whole issue is where our list sits at the moment.

From what I hear McCartin is an excellent forward.

But when we have Spence and just signed Lee for two years and got rid of Stanley (after years of development) AND we sign our champion for another two years, why do we take a KP?

i dont understand this. Did you see our mids this season get flogged game after game WITH Lenny.

Our mids are in crisis and while Pretracca wont make us world beaters next season, he will make us much better than without him.

We had multiple ten goals losses this year, no part less than our midfields lack of ability and class.

next season will be horrific. Petracca is ready to go Round 1, will picks 21 and 22 who by definition aren't as rated as good as Petracca will be ready.

IMO, without a basis of quality mids our structure and foundations toward a flag will be totally compromised.

These are my reasons. I feel it will be a dreadful mistake to not take Petracca considering where we are at in our development.

Doesn't mean I wont cheer on MCCartin and hope he turns into the new Plugger

Sorry mate, but saying we got Roo -t hey got Judd - they won a flag is just silly.

we got Ball - they got Judd is more on the mark.

Just saying.

 

[Kildonan]

Yes the reason were dodgey. Would be a huge swipe at a young bloke about to be drafted, also if it is true, who is leaking this stuff?

CP should be the choice

I don't dispute that CP is the best player in the draft. I don't know enough to dispute that and for the sake of argument, I won't.
I am interested, however, in the passion in which you (and others) feel towards stacking our midfield full of stars.
Is it simply because CP is potentially a superstar mid that is way too good to overlook, or is it that we need to focus on the midfield first and then attend to our deficiencies elsewhere later?

I ask because in my mind it is "logical" to recruit the players that will take the longest to develop first and have them developing (and this I believe is the Rucks, Key Defenders and Key Forwards) and leave the recruitment of players that develop more quickly such as mids and flankers to be completed once the key posts are filled.

This draft has been touted for some time as being THE BEST DRAFT FOR TALLS since (some particular draft in the past). We have a desperate need for quality talls now. We have the opportunity to bring in some quality talls and apprentice them under the remaining Grand Finalist players before they retire.

Next year's draft has a reputation for having a number of quality mids. The draft after that is sure to have some special kids as well.

 

[VDS66]

Nicely put Kildo.

Logic says that a KPF takes longer so get one now. Look at what happened to the WB's. So grab a good one when you can? I say yes.

As far as CP goes, he may be the best in this year's draft. But how does he rate overall? Is he another Judd or Hodge?

I won't be upset either way. But would lean towards Macca myself.

There will be too many variables at play next year...

What if the standout KPP goes in the first 3 picks and we have pick 4... then what?

No guarantees that anyone will come to us via FA.

What if we win a few games and end up with a worse pick?

What if there is another Judd next year. Do we take a tall or mid... and risk a WB scenario?

 

[Joffaboy]

I don't dispute that CP is the best player in the draft. I don't know enough to dispute that and for the sake of argument, I won't.
I am interested, however, in the passion in which you (and others) feel towards stacking our midfield full of stars.
Is it simply because CP is potentially a superstar mid that is way too good to overlook, or is it that we need to focus on the midfield first and the attend to our deficiencies elsewhere?

I ask because in my mind it is "logical" to recruit the players that will take the longest to develop first and have them developing (and this I believe is the Rucks, Key Defenders and Key Forwards) and leave the recruitment of players that develop more quickly such as mids and flankers to be completed once the key posts are filled.

This draft has been touted for some time as being THE BEST DRAFT FOR TALLS since (some particular draft in the past). We have a desperate need for quality talls now. We have the opportunity to bring in some quality talls and apprentice them under the remaining Grand Finalist players before they retire.

Next year's draft has a reputation for having a number of quality mids. The draft after that is sure to have some special kids as well.

i would refer you to my post a page back. Mids win premierships, we need quality mids and more quality mids.

We have a champion forward for the next two season, we have Spence White and just gave Lee a two year contract.

We have indicated we will go after FA in 2015/16.

The Saints also indicated we would take the best player available. Almost every expert believe Petracca is the best player available.

Petracca is also the prototype mid and with Dunstan would be close to a Martin/Fyfe combination.

I dont buy the thought that we just take a couple of mids @ 21 and 22 like there is no differrrrence between their class and Petracca's.

Anyway that is my reasoning.

 

[aussierulesrules]

I agree with that build theory, K, but I don't believe that we should pick for needs at a pick like 1 and would only be happy with us doing so if we saw them as genuinely equal quality. If we believe Petracca is the better of the two then I'd be pretty filthy if we overlooked him just to fill a need.

As much as I would like the structure of a "dominant key forward", as others have noted Geelong won flags without one and so did West Coast, and hell, we could also play Petracca forward and he could kick 50+ goals a year.

First priority has to be quality, IMO. GWS and Gold Coast and now even Brisbane have loads of it and WB are amassing a bunch of it too and the AFL are looking after Sydney like crazy, and we won't match them if we don't get as much as we can of our own.

 

[Trav 20]

I'm pretty sure the club will know about the backlash for taking McCartin over Petracca. Seeing how this board has reacted to a journalist reporting some unverified information someone at the club has to be worried about it and hence pushing for Petracca to be picked.

If the club decides to go with McCartin in spite of the inevitable supporter backlash they would have to be very confident in doing so.

Knowing there'd be a backlash is the only logical explanation there'd be a leak, assuming, of course, there has been one.

Early damage control.

 

[Joffaboy]

Nicely put Kildo.

Logic says that a KPF takes longer so get one now. Look at what happened to the WB's. So grab a good one when you can? I say yes.

As far as CP goes, he may be the best in this year's draft. But how does he rate overall? Is he another Judd or Hodge?

I won't be upset either way. But would lean towards Macca myself.

There will be too many variables at play next year...

What if the standout KPP goes in the first 3 picks and we have pick 4... then what?

No guarantees that anyone will come to us via FA.

What if we win a few games and end up with a worse pick?

What if there is another Judd next year. Do we take a tall or mid... and risk a WB scenario?

So we just take a tall for the sake of it even though the club has indicated we would take the best available.

Wh not take McKenzie if we are going to develop him for half a decade anyway?

Who knows what happens next year, but one thing is certain, there will be seasoned Key forwards in play.

I dont understand why we gave Lee a new deal, or got rid of Stanley wo we put 5 years of development in if all we do is stick this No.1 in the magoos for seasons on end.

 

[Joffaboy]

Sorry mate, but saying we got Roo -t hey got Judd - they won a flag is just silly.

we got Ball - they got Judd is more on the mark.

Just saying.

You might want to read the following post. after that one for an explanation

 

[Ekomaira]

So we just take a tall for the sake of it even though the club has indicated we would take the best available.

Wh not take McKenzie if we are going to develop him for half a decade anyway?

Who knows what happens next year, but one thing is certain, there will be seasoned Key forwards in play.

I dont understand why we gave Lee a new deal, or got rid of Stanley wo we put 5 years of development in if all we do is stick this No.1 in the magoos for seasons on end.

It's not really taking a tall for the sake of it. He was touted as the #1 for most the year. Not a bad pick for the sake of it!

 

[Kildonan]

i would refer you to my post a page back. Mids win premierships, we need quality mids and more quality mids.

We have a champion forward for the next two season, we have Spence White and just gave Lee a two year contract.

We have indicated we will go after FA in 2015/16.

The Saints also indicated we would take the best player available. Almost every expert believe Petracca is the best player available.

Petracca is also the prototype mid and with Dunstan would be close to a Martin/Fyfe combination.

I dont buy the thought that we just take a couple of mids @ 21 and 22 like there is no differrrrence between their class and Petracca's.

Anyway that is my reasoning.

I also won't dispute that it is the midfield that will win us our premiership, and I recognise that you're not suggesting we can win one without quality KPP's but I don't trust that we will be able to obtain the players we want via free agency when the time comes. We need to develop our own. Sure not every one of them will become what we want of them - but that way we will have a whole team (not a team with holes) when we are ready to challenge. If at that time FA can bring in a gun - then let's do it, but I don't want to rely on it.

 

[Feerits Elf]

One of these tests is called the Saccadic Fixator, a challenging examination of a player’s concentration, competitiveness and peripheral vision.

So called because anybody who tests poorly on it can go Saccadic.

 

[Periphery]

I'VE FIGURED IT ALL OUT!*

We Take McCartin this year. Then next year we suck again and get a priority pick and take 2 gun mids. Then in 2016 we go hard in FA and get a gun mid (could be pushed to 2015 depending on Dangerfield). Then we win all the flags.

*No I haven't.

 

[saintkildaman]

All I want to do is fast forward to Round 1 2015 and see;
HF: Billings, Riewoldt, Petracca

 

[dewah07]

When 3AW suggest that his testing wasn't up to scratch, they weren't specific, so while Petracca may not have tested very well at the combine in some areas, I have no doubt that had Paddy tested he also wouldn't have tested very well in some areas (such as endurance/beep test, perhaps the field kicking test and that he tested very poorly for body fat), so it may be that what 3AW were referring to (if what they said is true) was a different kind of testing, such as psychological, or even his most recent medical test (just a few days ago).

All the mail has had us taking Petracca. This is pretty much the first from anywhere at all that we are taking McCartin, so if it's true then perhaps CP got some poor results in his medical last week? Or perhaps his last interview didn't go well?

Personally I'm still hoping for CP, as I have pretty much no questionmarks on him from an on-field POV and reckon he is a ripper and likely to dominate, but if it's to be Paddy it will make more sense from a structural POV and he is also bloody good (albeit with more ? as far as I'm concerned), so it sure wouldn't be the end of the world. We may get very nervous in the first couple of years if we do take Paddy though, if CP bursts out of the blocks and starts kicking ass, while PM is playing in the VFL because he's going to take longer to be ready!

for the testing McCartin did, he was solid. ranked 1 in the reflex testing. saints even tweeted about it

 

[HayesTheChamp]

Can honestly see the merits of both McCartin and Petracca.

It feels like the head vs heart battle.

My head (i.e. logically) dictates that we take McCartin because bigs take longer to develop, he is clearly a very very good KPF prospect.

My heart dictates that we take Petracca, because I couldn't possibly take us not taking the best available (which appears to be Petracca).

Jesus, I'm glad I'm not our recruiters. But more than happy to back our current crop in - as they've done very well over the past few years.

 

[dewah07]

All I want to do is fast forward to Round 1 2015 and see;
HF: Billings, Riewoldt, Petracca

supercoach or dream team?

 

[Nutsngum]

I genuinely wonder how good Mccartin can be vs real AFL level key defenders who will stand an inch or more above him.

 

[aussierulesrules]

for the testing McCartin did, he was solid. ranked 1 in the reflex testing. saints even tweeted about it

Indeed and likewise Petracca tested very well in some areas, but just as Petracca didn't test as well in others, I have no doubt that Paddy wouldn't have tested well in some areas, had he done all the testing and he also had just about the worst body-fat levels of the 100+ that were there, which would surely be a concern, given the fact that he is meant to be really careful about his diet (due to his diabetes) and has played at a high level for a few years now. If after all that his body fat levels are still really high, it might suggest that he is a chance to struggle to ever get them down, something that I've seen Knightmare for instance say that he's heard some clubs were concerned about.

 

[dewah07]

Indeed and likewise Petracca tested very well in some areas, but just as Petracca didn't test as well in others, I have no doubt that Paddy wouldn't have tested well in some areas, had he done all the testing and he also had just about the worst body-fat levels of the 100+ that were there, which would surely be a concern, given the fact that he is meant to be really careful about his diet (due to his diabetes) and has played at a high level for a few years now. If after all that his body fat levels are still really high, it might suggest that he is a chance to struggle to ever get them down, something that I've seen Knightmare for instance say that he's heard some clubs were concerned about.

I thought he lost a lot of the 'fat' that he had and built up while he was injured?

Seems like an unfair assumption to put on him IMO.

Maybe Rahul can clear it up