The Law Ferguson

[TheWoodenSlug]

RisingPhoenix you demonstrate an impressive lack of self awareness, on one hand happy to stereotype all Muslims as bloodthirsty extremists or all Aborigines as having chips on their shoulder and yet you have thrown the toys completely out of the cot when someone tries to be the same with policeman.

To be fair to RisingPhoenix, the inverse to your statement is just as true. Which is why it has become a circular argument - both he and Catastic82 are generalising an entire group of people based on a stereotype, formed from the actions of a few. It's petty and pointless.

As for the case - I agree with those that say that a trial was warranted. Hard to say whether Wilson's actions were criminal without having the full story, so I won't demonize him, but I think there was enough doubt such that his story should have been tested properly.

 

[RisingPhoenix]

for a civilisation that lasted a log time they did well without a police industry, not saying it was ideal but throwin an example of a society without one.

Nor did the Indigenous society required the police as well as many others, could mount an argument that it isn't required.

Oh dear.

Can you imagine some of the remote communities in the top end and central australia without any police support whatsoever?

Christ.

Pity the women and children indeed.

 

[Catastic82]

Oh dear.

Can you imagine some of the remote communities in the top end and central australia without any police support whatsoever?

Christ.

Pity the women and children indeed.

Yeah because those thousands of years of governing their own people and laws clearly demonstrates the need to rely on a modern police force .

 

[Taylor]

A period?

Remove the police and who deals with the assaults, the rapes, the murders, the sexually abused kids, the thefts?

Who comes running when you have some predator coming through your daughters bedroom apartment window at 3 in the morning?

Who tries to find you a sense of justice after you have been king hit without provocation and left with an acquired brain injury by some rock ape who couldn't hold his drink?

Who will be the ones you depend on if some pack of meat heads next door decide they want to make you and your families life hell?

What if bikies or organised criminals try and extort you? Who do you call?

What if someone kills your wife?

Your child?

Your mother or father?

You guys have no idea how things would be without police.

Mad Max time I'm afraid.

I don't feel that waiting 20 minutes for the police to arrive is going to "Save" me from all those horrors you are afraid of, which I'm not and I'm a 60kg woman.

The police don't stop anything from happening, they go after people once it's done.

 

[RisingPhoenix]

p

The police don't stop anything from happening, they go after people once it's done.

Would you rather that than vengeful mob?

 

[Taylor]

Would you rather that than vengeful mob?

Without the news to keep me (you) afraid of these horrors I wouldn't know about 99.99% of them, given that, it isn't something I need to worry about. A vengeful mob won't come together each week to go lynch the kids caught putting graffiti on the walls.

I think the social benefits of being more community based will actually reduce crime.

 

[RisingPhoenix]

Yeah because those thousands of years of governing their own people and laws clearly demonstrates the need to rely on a modern police force .

Your right.

Aboriginal society pre European arrival was a shining beacon of humanity, peaceful community co-existence, safety for women and children, balanced dispensation of
justice, and non violence generally.

 

[Taylor]

Your right.

Aboriginal society pre European arrival was a shining beacon of humanity, peaceful community co-existence, safety for women and children, balanced dispensation of
justice, and non violence generally.

We don't currently live in a community that is like how you describe, if I believe the rest of what you have to say.

 

[Catastic82]

Your right.

Aboriginal society pre European arrival was a shining beacon of humanity, peaceful community co-existence, safety for women and children, balanced dispensation of
justice, and non violence generally.

no worst or better than western societies.

But because it is different you claim it as a negative.

Racism

 

[clogged]

A police force is what you create when you want to keep society's braindead thugs in line, by giving them jobs and calling them police officers.

 

[RisingPhoenix]

Without the news to keep me (you) afraid of these horrors I wouldn't know about 99.99% of them, given that, it isn't something I need to worry about.

I think the social benefits of being more community based will actually reduce crime.

Ok you can keep your head in the sand and think it's all just a media conspiracy to keep people afraid if you want, but I assure you, the world isn't an attractive place at the seams - seams upon which a not unsubstantial percentage live there lives on a daily basis.

Not too say it's a total kill crazed slaughterhouse out there and never leave your house, but don't be naive either. Violent crime is a daily reality for people, it's not a myth, and I sincerely hope you don't find that out yourself one day.

 

[RisingPhoenix]

no worst or better than western societies.

But because it is different you claim it as a negative.

Racism

What are you even on about?

I claim it as a negative because it is mate.

Sexual rites over little girls, tribal law bashings and spearings....abhorrent s**t, regardless of culture or skin colour.

 

[Present Not Past]

The Police Force is a very recent addition to modern society. Before then law and order was mainly administered by a military/militia force.
When Governor Macquarie arrived to take charge of Sydney, he arrived from England with his Regiment - the 73rd, to take on and dismantle the Rum Corps.

 

[Santana]

Sadly that physical evidence will never be tested so how reliable can it be?

Three autopsies, one of them done by someone the Brown's family wanted. All showed that the witnesses were either bullshitting or they didn't see what they thought they saw. All autopsies showed Brown was NOT shot in the back.

The physical evidence favors Wilson. Most of the eyewitness cases have been shown to be wrong. It's time to move on folks. There are plenty of other cases where people were killed by police where most of the evidence points to police wrongdoing, this one just isn't close to that.

I know you all got all excited when you first heard there was a white cop who shot a black man apparently in the back while he was surrendering but it's been shown with time and evidence to not be the case. You picked the wrong horse here. Better luck race baiting next time.

 

[fleabitten]

I believe most of the witnesses claimed that Wilson shot at Brown as he was fleeing, not that he was shot in the back as such. From the start witnesses have been saying that he had his hands up and was surrendering when he was executed, not that he was filled with bullets with his back turned.

The physical evidence that we've seen does not favour Wilson any more than it favours the alternative version. The cops lied about the distance before quietly releasing the actual distance. The only way the bullet wounds back up Wilson is if Brown was some kind of human goat and was charging with his head down. Otherwise, it backs up the witnesses who say that Wilson kept shooting at Brown as he was falling.

The fact that we're even arguing about this proves that it needed to go to trial, not be swept under the rug. Surely you don't think all of the protesters, media pundits, legal experts and regular folks arguing on social media and in internet forums are all just whining idiots who don't want to see the truth that is staring them in the face? There is A LOT of doubt around what happened. You're swallowing the official story without question. Most people have a lot of questions.

 

[Catastic82]

The fact that there are further investigation into Wilson and the police department should show most people that there are strong doubts on the shooting.

 

[carnthemlions]

I believe most of the witnesses claimed that Wilson shot at Brown as he was fleeing, not that he was shot in the back as such. From the start witnesses have been saying that he had his hands up and was surrendering when he was executed, not that he was filled with bullets with his back turned.

The physical evidence that we've seen does not favour Wilson any more than it favours the alternative version. The cops lied about the distance before quietly releasing the actual distance. The only way the bullet wounds back up Wilson is if Brown was some kind of human goat and was charging with his head down. Otherwise, it backs up the witnesses who say that Wilson kept shooting at Brown as he was falling.

The fact that we're even arguing about this proves that it needed to go to trial, not be swept under the rug. Surely you don't think all of the protesters, media pundits, legal experts and regular folks arguing on social media and in internet forums are all just whining idiots who don't want to see the truth that is staring them in the face? There is A LOT of doubt around what happened. You're swallowing the official story without question. Most people have a lot of questions.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

In law you quickly learn how bad eye witness evidence is. These are split moments in life that your mind is not prepared for. Like a flash out of the corner of your eye your mind can't take in all information and certainly not all accurately.

We did a test in class once; halfway through the lesson three students dressed in unique clothing ran through the class, yelling and jumping before running out.

Out of about 200 students I don't think there was a single person who could identify what each person was wearing perfectly.

I used to be a cricket umpire. I was concentrating, directly, 100% focused on a delivery, and you still can't completely describe exactly where the ball struck.

Your mind jumps to a conclusion and then that conclusion corrupts your memory.

Eye witness reports are very unreliable. The courts know this, the police know this.
Unfortunately us humans are very fallible

 

[RisingPhoenix]

The fact that there are further investigation into Wilson and the police department should show most people that there are strong doubts on the shooting.

If it had of been a white kid laying dead, do you think your perspective may be slightly different ?

Serious question.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

...I really hope the blokes on this thread are just a misrepresented cross section of the community out there who have had the rough end of it, because as much as I know police will never be the darlings of the community, and I'm used to hearing all this s**t, I still find it sad that all the good and decent coppers out there just don't seem to exist in peoples minds.

The ones who worked in the pcyc's, who help out with the high schools - I did both in my time and so did a lot of mates I worked with....are they pig scum too? The police who caught Daniel Morcombe's killer....pig scum? The ones who attend the fatal car accident scenes....I did my share of that, pig scum?

Yes I knew plenty of blokes who shouldn't be in uniform too, don't worry about that...but I'm sure there are plenty of people who shouldn't be teaching or nursing either.

Think about this guys, love them, hate them....if the police went away tomorow, how long would it be before it was complete and utter ******* anarchy on the streets?

I disagree with a lot of your viewpoints, RP - that's the nature of things that unfortunately all of us are never going to see eye to eye on every issue.

But this is a good post. A damn FINE one. I agree with it. There are good cops out there and I'd like to think that the majority of them are in no way pig scum. Not every cop is a criminal, nor is every sinner a saint either.

I note that you yourself was a police officer - I won't bombard you with personal questions, but I'll ask you the thing I've asked soldiers before - you go through training with a group of people and you join a workforce of people who dress as you do, who think operationally as you do and who back each other up as a single cohesive structure.

Your job as a police officer was to create/maintain order, and were given license by the State that civilians do not get.

Did this ever create a kind of 'us/them' thought process in you? I've talked to ex-soldiers who say that this concept of 'brotherhood' made it hard to come back to civilian life. That's human psychology though - any group of people who share common experience will more than likely form bonds that set them apart from the 'herd', so to speak.

Did you notice this?

I ask this because there's an important psychological factor in how us civilians see cops... and how cops view civilians.

 

[scon]

Who tries to find you a sense of justice after you have been king hit without provocation and left with an acquired brain injury by some rock ape who couldn't hold his drink?

I know the colloquial definition and you do as well.Is that your intended meaning or are you using the term in an entirely idiosyncratic way it has never been used before??

 

[RisingPhoenix]

I know the colloquial definition and you do as well.Is that your intended meaning or are you using the term in an entirely idiosyncratic way it has never been used before??

Ah no I wasn't suggesting an aboriginal.

 

[RisingPhoenix]

I disagree with a lot of your viewpoints, RP - that's the nature of things that unfortunately all of us are never going to see eye to eye on every issue.

But this is a good post. A damn FINE one. I agree with it. There are good cops out there and I'd like to think that the majority of them are in no way pig scum. Not every cop is a criminal, nor is every sinner a saint either.

I note that you yourself was a police officer - I won't bombard you with personal questions, but I'll ask you the thing I've asked soldiers before - you go through training with a group of people and you join a workforce of people who dress as you do, who think operationally as you do and who back each other up as a single cohesive structure.

Your job as a police officer was to create/maintain order, and were given license by the State that civilians do not get.

Did this ever create a kind of 'us/them' thought process in you? I've talked to ex-soldiers who say that this concept of 'brotherhood' made it hard to come back to civilian life. That's human psychology though - any group of people who share common experience will more than likely form bonds that set them apart from the 'herd', so to speak.

Did you notice this?

I ask this because there's an important psychological factor in how us civilians see cops... and how cops view civilians.

Definitely an us and them mentality exists although I suspect it's lessened since my time.

You even have inter squad based 'us and them'....something which would also obviously be rife within the military.

There are different types though.

You have the copper who sees 'us and them' as extending to being able to engage in certain behaviours and crossing of certain lines, because the 'them' doesn't and couldn't understand 'what it takes' to get a specific outcome.

Without trying to sound like some academic w***er, they hold the non police members of society in contempt to some degree. We get our hands on the s**t, you don't, so I don't care what you think. A combination of that and basic human greed has sewn the seeds of a lot of the problems that have been exposed in various forces I suppose.

Then you have straight down the line blokes that make up the bulk who just see 'us' in the way those who work in any specialised profession would....shared experience, camaraderie, mate ship etc etc.

I think the second one is totally fine and healthy IMO.

 

[fleabitten]

Are you posting that in support of what I said or to refute it? Because that shows that there are a lot of different versions of what happened and none of the witnesses agree with Wilson on everything. Many of them contradict him completely.

 

[carnthemlions]

Are you posting that in support of what I said or to refute it? Because that shows that there are a lot of different versions of what happened and none of the witnesses agree with Wilson on everything. Many of them contradict him completely.

Look at the 6th and 8th columns.