Religion Where did this "religion of peace" mantra come from?

[The Coup]

Is it Christians holding them down though? Aren't we talking about class struggle?

The relative intelligence of some of the posters in this thread is inconsequential. I'm asking you about your views because I believe the history of Communism has a proud history of denouncing all of it's ideological enemies in international solidarity. As I said before, it's a necessity because capitalism is internationalist in it's aims. Sometimes I feel like we've become too localised to the point of pettiness in our politics.

I wouldn't object to you defending the right of all the poor and working class of the Middle East/Africa/Asia to figure it out for themselves, regardless of their faith or lack of. However if they choose to be the slaves and participants in a reactionary religion and an oppressive system then call it out. Starting with the campaigners who's propaganda and lies create the system. How do you think democratic-socialists go in Saudi Arabia?

Again you're using ****ed up exploited poor nations to label Islam as somehow being evil.

Islam is a banner to express rage under for a lot of those people imo.

Aristotle said poverty is the parent of crime. Terrorism is a crime. If those people were not poor and exploited, they would not be terrorists.

Attacking the religion is missing the point imo. For example, the reason ISIS gets the bulk of its recruits is not because they make sense, but because they pay way more than any other militia.

http://www.socialist.ca/node/2276

All in the name of the Islamic Kingdom, its cronies and parasites.

Yeah, Saudi Arabia is ****ed.

As to the thread title, I only ever hear "religion of peace" said by racist "libertarian" idiots.

 

[fleabitten]

As to the thread title, I only ever hear "religion of peace" said by racist "libertarian" idiots.

http://www.arabtimesonline.com/NewsDetails/tabid/96/smid/414/ArticleID/211171/reftab/36/Default.aspx
http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Nation/2014/11/12/Islam-is-a-religion-of-peace-and-understanding/
http://www.nst.com.my/node/48423
http://pakobserver.net/detailnews.asp?id=256135
http://muslimvillage.com/2014/11/16/59584/war-islam-2/

That took 2 minutes.

 

[The Coup]

I have never heard of any of those media outlets.

They could be just some dingbat with a blog for all I know. No different than quoting stormfront.

 

[fleabitten]

Arab Times is Kuwaits #1 English language daily
The Star and New Strait Times are two of the leading Malaysian newspapers
The Pakistan Observer is the 3rd most widely read English language paper in Pakistan
MuslimVillage is an Australian internet community with 16000 registered members

 

[pokerspiv]

Arab Times is Kuwaits #1 English language daily
The Star and New Strait Times are two of the leading Malaysian newspapers
The Pakistan Observer is the 3rd most widely read English language paper in Pakistan
MuslimVillage is an Australian internet community with 16000 registered members

The Coup hasn't heard of them though. Goes to show how ignorant he is.

 

[fleabitten]

For the record, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with those media outlets. Just establishing that "religion of peace" is a phrase that Muslims use to defend Islam.

 

[The Coup]

Arab Times is Kuwaits #1 English language daily
The Star and New Strait Times are two of the leading Malaysian newspapers
The Pakistan Observer is the 3rd most widely read English language paper in Pakistan
MuslimVillage is an Australian internet community with 16000 registered members

Cheers, I'll have a read now.

 

[The Coup]

The Coup hasn't heard of them though. Goes to show how ignorant he is.

Considering everything you write is either a threat or straight off the bathroom wall of the IPA's (very crowded on account of being staffed almost entirely by men, white men at that) dunny, being called ignorant by you is a badge of honour.

 

[pokerspiv]

For the record, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with those media outlets. Just establishing that "religion of peace" is a phrase that Muslims use to defend Islam.

The original reference was actually by George W. Bush, who described Islam as a "religion of peace" in the speech he gave in the aftermath of 9/11.

 

[fleabitten]

The original reference was actually by George W. Bush, who described Islam as a "religion of peace" in the speech he gave in the aftermath of 9/11.

He actually just said "Islam is peace". It was the PM of Malaysia who first used the phrase. I could be wrong on that, but it's still something that Muslims and defenders of Islam say and it's crap. I mean, i hope the people that say that actually believe it and that they can convince other Muslims that its true, but there's no reason to call Islam a religion of peace. It was founded by a warlord who attacked his enemies unprovoked and had poets killed for making fun of him. It was spread by the sword and has millions of followers today who agree that people should be killed for a variety of ridiculous reasons.

 

[Malifice]

The usual response to that is "but the bible is violent too"

It most certainly is. But the Bible is far less prone to literalism and fundamentalism.

There are Christians who treat the Bible as a literal truth (Westborough Baptist Church), but my far most Christians interpret the Bible to mean something else.

The Quran has no similar wiggle room.

 

[The Coup]

It most certainly is. But the Bible is far less prone to literalism and fundamentalism.

There are Christians who treat the Bible as a literal truth (Westborough Baptist Church), but my far most Christians interpret the Bible to mean something else.

The Quran has no similar wiggle room.

The Quran has a much higher proportion of its followers living in the poorest, most dangerous and most violent parts of the world (largely thanks to Anglo nations repeatedly ******* with them and bombing them for oil).

They would react violently if they were communists (like PKK), or fascists (like ISIS), or moderates (like the Iranian army) or.....

But whitey has a hard on for religious war, it was kind of the basis of our empire.

I mean Jesus was literally a martyr.

 

[RisingPhoenix]

The Quran has a much higher proportion of its followers living in the poorest, most dangerous and most violent parts of the world (largely thanks to Anglo nations repeatedly ******* with them and bombing them for oil).

They would react violently if they were communists (like PKK), or fascists (like ISIS), or moderates (like the Iranian army) or.....

But whitey has a hard on for religious war, it was kind of the basis of our empire.

I mean Jesus was literally a martyr.

Here we go again....

And what about the homegrown Aussie born whackjobs desperate to get over there to the poorest, most dangerous parts of the world so they can take happy snaps of there kids holding severed heads?

What does Aristotle say about that?

 

[The Coup]

Here we go again....

And what about the homegrown Aussie born whackjobs desperate to get over there to the poorest, most dangerous parts of the world so they can take happy snaps of there kids holding severed heads?

What does Aristotle say about that?

So you think its Islam that does that? Why aren't Singaporeans heading there in droves?

Not a hatred of the west and having no sense of belonging to Australia?

You have to acknowledge how rational and logical it is for people from that part of the world to hate the west before we can have this discussion.

 

[Malifice]

The Quran has a much higher proportion of its followers living in the poorest, most dangerous and most violent parts of the world (largely thanks to Anglo nations repeatedly ******* with them and bombing them for oil).

They would react violently if they were communists (like PKK), or fascists (like ISIS), or moderates (like the Iranian army) or.....

But whitey has a hard on for religious war, it was kind of the basis of our empire.

I mean Jesus was literally a martyr.

Hang on.

You don't see a difference between the stories of Jesus (a pacifist whose central message was 'turn the other cheek') and Mohammed (a Warlord who unified Arabia and brought his message by the sword)?

Islam (unlike Christianity) actively condones violence!

 

[RisingPhoenix]

Not a hatred of the west and having no sense of belonging to Australia?

.

Assimilate or piss off.

There is no room in the 'melting pot' for fundamentalist Islam...if they are waiting for a welcome and acceptance within our society - hell will freeze over first.

The only people keen to have them here are dhimmi's like you, and thankfully your lot don't call the shots.

Long may that remain the case.

 

[The Coup]

Hang on.

You don't see a difference between the stories of Jesus (a pacifist whose central message was 'turn the other cheek') and Mohammed (a Warlord who unified Arabia and brought his message by the sword)?

Islam (unlike Christianity) actively condones violence!

Well we don't really know much about Jesus as a historical figure. The whole peaceful thing is, imo, a complete whitewashing by the Romans and Anglos to keep people compliant.

Look at the way he died. Look at how he whipped bankers and threw tables over whilst chasing them around. He wasn't peaceful or a doormat. He fought for what he believed in.

He's a huge figure in Islam too anyway.

But Mohammad, well he was a real general and generals in those times went to war. A lot.

Its context that is important, and nobody on this site appears to be a dedicated theologian, I am not arrogant enough personally to think I understand a book written in Arabic that thousands and thousands of scholars still debate.

I do know the consensus among Islamic scholars is that groups like ISIS and AQ are not just incorrect in their interpretation of the Quran, but that they actively defy all modern convention AND historic practices that most muslims believe in.

If Islam itself was the cause, how did the Christians, Assyrians, Shia, Zoroastrians, Kurds, Yazidi, Druze, Jewish people etc survive in the middle east for so long? Why is it now that the ethnic cleansing is taking place?

That part of the world has actually been more successful at letting multiple groups go about their business without bloodshed than say, Europe or America ever was.

 

[The Coup]

Assimilate or piss off.

There is no room in the 'melting pot' for fundamentalist Islam...if they are waiting for a welcome and acceptance within our society - hell will freeze over first.

The only people keen to have them here are dhimmi's like you, and thankfully your lot don't call the shots.

Long may that remain the case.

Sounds like you're the one who can't assimilate.

Multiculturalism IS Australia's culture.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

Hang on.

You don't see a difference between the stories of Jesus (a pacifist whose central message was 'turn the other cheek') and Mohammed (a Warlord who unified Arabia and brought his message by the sword)?

Islam (unlike Christianity) actively condones violence!

Islam does not condone violence, it commands it.

 

[RisingPhoenix]

Sounds like you're the one who can't assimilate.

Multiculturalism IS Australia's culture.

Yep.

Not fundamentalist Sunni Islam.

Tell that lot they have to co-exist with others here.

 

[The Coup]

Yep.

Not fundamentalist Sunni Islam.

Tell that lot they have to co-exist with others here.

What do you think the biggest push factor is for a kid from say, Endeavour Hills, who isn't an extremists - when making that leap from disaffected young man to try-hard jihadi?

I don't want fundamentalist anything here, but attacking all muslims (verbally, physically, legally, politically) is adding to the problem not helping.

 

[Malifice]

Well we don't really know much about Jesus as a historical figure. The whole peaceful thing is, imo, a complete whitewashing by the Romans and Anglos to keep people compliant.

I'm referring to the accounts of each individual as contained within the relevant holy books. Jesus was depicted as a pacifist. Mohammed was depicted as a Warlord. They had very different lives, and very different messages.

Its context that is important, and nobody on this site appears to be a dedicated theologian, I am not arrogant enough personally to think I understand a book written in Arabic that thousands and thousands of scholars still debate.

I wholly agree. But that the problem with Islam - it doesn't allow context. The reader is instructed to take the thing literally.

This is a large reason why Islamic nations are still stuck in the stone age in many ways (beheadings, stonings, womens rights, blashpemy, Sharia etc) - the holy book commands them to these things in a way the Bible does not.

 

[RisingPhoenix]

I don't want fundamentalist anything here, but attacking all muslims (verbally, physically, legally, politically) is adding to the problem not helping.

Agree.

So let's not have them here.

 

[The Coup]

I'm referring to the accounts of each individual as contained within the relevant holy books. Jesus was depicted as a pacifist. Mohammed was depicted as a Warlord. They had very different lives, and very different messages.

I wholly agree. But that the problem with Islam - it doesn't allow context. The reader is instructed to take the thing literally.

This is a large reason why Islamic nations are still stuck in the stone age in many ways (beheadings, stonings, womens rights, blashpemy, Sharia etc) - the holy book commands them to these things in a way the Bible does not.

I think Reza explained how stupid the term Islamic Nations is quite well.



Its just monumentally counter productive to turn this into an Islam bashing exercise. Creates more terrorists if anything. Glass houses and s**t.

 

[The Coup]

Agree.

So let's not have them here.

But they were born here.

So what do you do? Can't deport them anywhere, they're citizens.

Can't jail them for a belief. Impossible to identify or enforce, and holding beliefs isn't illegal.

My opinon is the best way to fight terrorism is by offering a way out and a better example: jobs, tafe, school, quality of life, inclusion

Kicking in doors creates more terrorists.