No Oppo Supporters CAS hands down guilty verdict - Players appealing - Dank shot - no opposition - (cont in pt.2)

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Nov 5, 2010
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As demonstrated many times previously, and I'm sure the major reason why Vlad quit when he did coincidentally just before everything started to escalate.
Andy D Rat.png
 

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efcboy

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The AFL would do almost anything to stay out of the courts on this.

Either way things are going to be exposed. If ASADA lose a federal enquiry will expose AFL. If ASADA are able to issue some penalties (albeit light) they may avoid federal enquiry.

It's difficult to know which predicament is worse for the AFL.
 

efcboy

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And to think that they took away our finals spot last year and gave it to another club with significant governance issues.

The AFL are a corrupt organisation, overseeing a compromised competition, run by shady characters with conflicts of interest and with the temerity to employ somebody as an 'integrity' officer who has seemingly operated throughout the saga with absolutely no integrity whatsoever... * Carlton, * the AFL, and * Clothier.

Mike Fitzpatrick - Carlton....
 

Smokin

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This Carlton stuff sounds like a coach not players.

ASADA making lots of noise, but still not showing anything about whether or not Dank had TB4 at Essendon and if that was given to any players.

that part obviously related to the charge against Dank which is happening at the same time.

We only have to defend TB4.
 
Apr 11, 2002
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from a post elsewhere

Peter Jess formally director of IM Medical. Peter Del Vecchio formally managing director of IM Medical. Peter Del Vecchio called as a witness to the Tribunal in his role as Dank's ex-business partner. Yesterday Del Vecchio (according to Martin Hardie) was 'lost' to ASADA as a witness. Today Jess makes a statement than Lovett-Murray is considering suing the AFL. None of these facts are related.
 

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60sbomber

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ASADA alleges that Alavi told one of its investigators he believed the first batch of peptides was Thymosin Beta-4. This is at odds with what Alavi told The Australianearlier this year, when he said that because the peptide wasn’t tested, he didn’t know what form of Thymosin it was.

Pity they didn't get a sworn statement to that effect when he said that, isnt it...

According to Holmes’ outline, Alavi compounded the first batch of Thymosin into clear vials and the second batch into amber vials. A sample of the first batch was sent to a US lab for testing but no result was returned. The remainder of the first batch was provided to Dank.
The ASADA case outline does not make clear what happened to the second batch of Thymosin.


What does that actually mean 'no result was returned'? - the lab received & tested the sample but didn't receive payment for their services so never tested it or never forwarded the results? Surely the lab would still have a record of this exchange if it did indeed happen?

Anyone know how these type of lab's work with regard to payment?

Many questions arise from this. But to whom do the players' lawyers direct the questions? If Alavi does not appear, who presents this info and answers the questions which arise from it? Goes to the heart of the need for cross examination to be available before evidence can be relied on.

The questions that spring to my mind are -
What does "no result" mean? Why was there no result?
Why was only the first batch sent for testing? Was the second batch believed to be something else? Thymomodulin maybe? Thymosin Alpha maybe?
What exactly was the "compounding" that Alavi did? (Science expert bomberau6 on BB says TB4 from China should not/cannot be compounded)
Why was the first batch in clear vials and the second in amber vials?
If clear vials, would that cause it to be destroyed by light exposure (as per Dank's claims)?
Is it normal practice to "compound" substances when the chemist does not know what the substances are?
Did Alavi obtain thymomodulin from a source other than Charter for Dank?
Lots more, if you really want to think about it.

If no-one fronts to the tribunal to answer these questions, how can the evidence ASADA presents be acceptable?
 
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Is it normal practice to "compound" substances when the chemist does not know what the substances are?

For mine this is probably the main reason why Alavi refused to sign or testify - declaring under oath that he compounded & supplied an unknown substance must surely be in violation of his professions code of conduct (or wtf they call it), & at a minimum have opened him up to sanction from the Pharmacy Board?
 
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& more from Bruce

All the players have suffered mental anguish so I'd be staggered if they all didn't sue the AFL. I actually warned the AFL and the media some time ago that this would happen. I am surprised that Peter Jess didn't indicate he may sue Evans and Robson. They knew about the supplement program whereas the other directors didn't. I have very reliable information that the invoices for the supplements were not included in the monthly financial reports to the board
 

Zephyr Effekt

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This Carlton stuff sounds like a coach not players.

ASADA making lots of noise, but still not showing anything about whether or not Dank had TB4 at Essendon and if that was given to any players.
that's a unique combination of supplements to be provided over a period that parallels the afl season just for a coach.

shouldn't be a problem for carlton to provide proof that no players received any of the supplements.
 

IggypopsTshirt

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Interesting to observe moral beacon Carlton supporters pontificating about the steps they'd like to see taken of anyone at the club is found to be tied up in this. They're either too ******* stupid or burying their heads in the sand to the fact the club has been dishonest with regard to their involvement with Dank for the better part of 2 years already.
 

60sbomber

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that part obviously related to the charge against Dank which is happening at the same time.

We only have to defend TB4.

Why the f#@k is the charge against Dank being heard at the same time as the charges against the players?
That would only make sense if all the evidence relating to all the charges arose from the same events, and so the evidence only needed to be presented once.
Not the case.
If Dank is charged with trafficking and supplying to coaches, and also charged with providing Hexarelin to Essendon, that is completely separate to the charges against the players, and it is only muddying the waters and delaying the proceedings to hear them in the same proceedings.
If it is ASADA's decision to do it together, then you have to suspect the motives. Trying to tar the players with the same brush. Trying to hint to the tribunal that if Dank was doing bad things, then it is easier for them to believe the players are guilty too.
 

Pweter

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Why the f#@k is the charge against Dank being heard at the same time as the charges against the players?
That would only make sense if all the evidence relating to all the charges arose from the same events, and so the evidence only needed to be presented once.
Not the case.
If Dank is charged with trafficking and supplying to coaches, and also charged with providing Hexarelin to Essendon, that is completely separate to the charges against the players, and it is only muddying the waters and delaying the proceedings to hear them in the same proceedings.
If it is ASADA's decision to do it together, then you have to suspect the motives. Trying to tar the players with the same brush. Trying to hint to the tribunal that if Dank was doing bad things, then it is easier for them to believe the players are guilty too.

Given the tribunal is comprised from people with legal backgrounds, I'd like to think they're smarter than that.

Also there's the bit about the players lawyers making your point plainly obvious.
 

Dan Cooper

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Why the f#@k is the charge against Dank being heard at the same time as the charges against the players?
That would only make sense if all the evidence relating to all the charges arose from the same events, and so the evidence only needed to be presented once.
Not the case.
If Dank is charged with trafficking and supplying to coaches, and also charged with providing Hexarelin to Essendon, that is completely separate to the charges against the players, and it is only muddying the waters and delaying the proceedings to hear them in the same proceedings.
If it is ASADA's decision to do it together, then you have to suspect the motives. Trying to tar the players with the same brush. Trying to hint to the tribunal that if Dank was doing bad things, then it is easier for them to believe the players are guilty too.

First rule of any fight - stack the odds in your favour.

Why is charge against Dank being heard at the same time as the charges against the players? Because it suits ADASA ;)
 

60sbomber

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that's a unique combination of supplements to be provided over a period that parallels the afl season just for a coach.

shouldn't be a problem for carlton to provide proof that no players received any of the supplements.

There only needs to be a possibility that the coach gave it to a player for there to be a charge, doesn't there?
No need for any evidence either. Just a made up story that might be possible is enough.
 

Smokin

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Why the f#@k is the charge against Dank being heard at the same time as the charges against the players?
That would only make sense if all the evidence relating to all the charges arose from the same events, and so the evidence only needed to be presented once.
Not the case.
If Dank is charged with trafficking and supplying to coaches, and also charged with providing Hexarelin to Essendon, that is completely separate to the charges against the players, and it is only muddying the waters and delaying the proceedings to hear them in the same proceedings.
If it is ASADA's decision to do it together, then you have to suspect the motives. Trying to tar the players with the same brush. Trying to hint to the tribunal that if Dank was doing bad things, then it is easier for them to believe the players are guilty too.

This whole thing has been a cluster**** why would it stop now?
 
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