Siege in Martin Place, Sydney

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Jun 11, 2007
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Wrong. It was based mainly on public displays of self-indulgent sentimentality. Twits repeating a hashtag as though it 'made a difference', when it was really about people feeling good about themselves by taking the moral high ground on an imaginary problem. You can excuse Bandt and Brand backing it because they are trying to appeal to the naive and gullible but Shorten should be embarrassed.

I happen to think it was an extremely needed and welcome re-affirmation that there are more good souls in this country than bigoted arseholes. The key to the treasure in this case WAS the treasure.
 
Aug 16, 2006
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People having a bash a #illridewithyou can get ****ed. After the Sydney raids there were various media reports of violence against Muslims and/or the vandalism of their possessions. That is just a fact. The #illridewithyou campaign was a well meaning attempt to offset that type of ill informed backlash. For normal people who aren't ideologues or racists, it is perfectly possible to show this act of solidarity to Muslims while also expressing grief for those that have been effected by this pathetic crime. None of the Muslims, Samoans, Anglos, Vietnamese, Chinese, etc., paying their sympathies at Martin Place yesterday could give a * about the hate and politics of the Miranda Devine and Bolt types, or the ramblings of punters like RisingPhoenix. And good for them. They are better people as a result.
 

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CyrilDaSquirrel

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Can I ask, why does it piss you off so much?

But what's the harm if people are simply expressing an endorsement of an inclusive society?

I'll have a go at explaining for you. I find the sentiment that Muslim Australians need someone to "ride with them" to protect them from bigoted, xenophobic, racist rednecks in the wider Australian community to be extremely offensive. It'd be like me suggesting that I need someone to "ride with me" through Western Sydney so I don't get shot and/or blown up by a raghead terrorist extremist. You see that sentiment is also offensive. In both cases we're talking about tiny minorities, and I have no real reason to fear. The difference is that in my counter example, the fear has some basis in reality, in the form of real body bags and real death counts, while the supposed threat to the Muslim community referenced by #illridewithyou tweeters doesn't exist except in the fevered imagination of your average lefty. So yeah, the fact that they start tweeting about some make-believe threat to the Muslim community from their fellow Australians, while real people were being shot by a Muslim extremist with 14,000 facebook likes, yeah that pisses me off.

Demonising your average Australian bogan by pretending they are thugs who the Muslim community needs to be protected from - yes I find that sickening and offensive. I'm sure most of the tweeters gave it only the shallowest thought and had honest intentions. They probably thought, 'oh i'm a good person, this doesn't apply to me', but the whole thing speaks to how the ivory tower left (and the woman who started it is a card carrying member) view their fellow citizens. Cultural cringe and self-loathing. "I wanted to tell her I was sorry for so many things... for belonging to a culture where racism was part of her everyday experience.". That is self-loathing 101.
 
Aug 16, 2006
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Demonising your average Australian bogan by pretending they are thugs who the Muslim community needs to be protected from - yes I find that sickening and offensive. I'm sure most of the tweeters gave it only the shallowest thought and had honest intentions. They probably thought, 'oh i'm a good person, this doesn't apply to me', but the whole thing speaks to how the ivory tower left (and the woman who started it is a card carrying member) view their fellow citizens. Cultural cringe and self-loathing. "I wanted to tell her was sorry for so many things... for belonging to a culture where racism was part of her everyday experience.". That is self-loathing 101.

How is it 'pretending':

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Man enters Muslim School in Sydney after the Raids with a knife - threatens teachers and children:
1411700375333_Image_galleryImage_CCTV_of_a_man_who_entered.JPG
 

CyrilDaSquirrel

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How is it 'pretending':

Oh I'm sure there are dickheads around, but you've missed my wider point.

You can't have it both ways. If we're all meant to be polite and pretend that the Muslim community are all peace-loving and wonderful people, and pretend the extremists don't exist, or that they're unrepresentative, then ok. But then the left takes the same standard for the wider community and inverts it. How would you feel about a #i'll-ride-with-you-through-western-sydney-so-you-don't-get-suicide-bombed hashtag? A little bit different? Not fair to insinuate that your average Muslim is a potential threat? Then why don't you extend the same courtesy to your average Australian? It's not like the hashtag was in response to some incident, it pre-empted any response, effectively assuming the worst about Australians. I find it embarrassing and offensive.
 
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How is it 'pretending':

Cronulla-rioters.jpg



254618-07036920-37a9-11e4-a343-9e6c16704359.jpg


race-riot-4.jpg



729666-f77dd8e4-543d-11e4-b50f-96f6ad28209c.jpg


cronulla-riots-5725370.jpg


1411540514543.jpg



sikhs_1a50up2-1a50upa.jpg


1411608467373.jpg

690131-20e0d338-2a25-11e3-9c7c-7bd717e0175f.jpg

Man enters Muslim School in Sydney after the Raids with a knife - threatens teachers and children:
1411700375333_Image_galleryImage_CCTV_of_a_man_who_entered.JPG

so because of a few violent racist dickheads who are bogans act like violent racist dickheads, you declare any australian that fits the ever increasing description of the term bogan are violent racist dickheads?

you see the issue yes? tarring all bogans because those few violent racist dickheads who are also bogans associate the actions of a few violent religious nutters who happen to be islamic associate their actions with all muslims?

Sound logic.

if you arrogant campaigners hadn't saw fit to label 89% country as bogans you may have had a point, but nowadays it's too all encompassing to be used like this. your images are useless those dickheads would simply show all the nutters burning s**t over a cartoon.

Time to move on and find a new fashionable term for your class warfare, because literally anyone with a thick australian accent is considered a bogan now, hell it doesn't even apply to low income earners anymore you can be rich as s**t and still labeled as such. even white skin no longer applies in many cases.
 
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RisingPhoenix

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I'll have a go at explaining for you. I find the sentiment that Muslim Australians need someone to "ride with them" to protect them from bigoted, xenophobic, racist rednecks in the wider Australian community to be extremely offensive. It'd be like me suggesting that I need someone to "ride with me" through Western Sydney so I don't get shot and/or blown up by a raghead terrorist extremist. You see that sentiment is also offensive. In both cases we're talking about tiny minorities, and I have no real reason to fear. The difference is that in my counter example, the fear has some basis in reality, in the form of real body bags and real death counts, while the supposed threat to the Muslim community referenced by #illridewithyou tweeters doesn't exist except in the fevered imagination of your average lefty. So yeah, the fact that they start tweeting about some make-believe threat to the Muslim community from their fellow Australians, while real people were being shot by a Muslim extremist with 14,000 facebook likes, yeah that pisses me off.

Demonising your average Australian bogan by pretending they are thugs who the Muslim community needs to be protected from - yes I find that sickening and offensive. I'm sure most of the tweeters gave it only the shallowest thought and had honest intentions. They probably thought, 'oh i'm a good person, this doesn't apply to me', but the whole thing speaks to how the ivory tower left (and the woman who started it is a card carrying member) view their fellow citizens. Cultural cringe and self-loathing. "I wanted to tell her I was sorry for so many things... for belonging to a culture where racism was part of her everyday experience.". That is self-loathing 101.

Preach it.
 
Apr 17, 2006
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Zero Muslims dead, two Australians dead. Muslims aren't the victims, the Australian way of life is. Wake up, leftists.
At the end of the day, you have a point about the Australian way of life
Nobody has an issue with the Muslim religion, and various off-cuts
They do have a problem with these religions that have no cultural significance (such as a woman being forced to cover up)
 

Footy Smarts

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Good to see the xenophobes out in force. It seems to make these people really angry that the public is embracing peace and unity when they should be promoting division and fear. Why aren't people angry???

Also interesting to see the dad of one of the victims saying how at least his son's death is helping promote peace. Sort of ruins the whole argument about the hash tag being disrespectful to the victims doesn't it.
 
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Good to see the xenophobes out in force. It seems to make these people really angry that the public is embracing peace and unity when they should be promoting division and fear. Why aren't people angry???

Also interesting to see the dad of one of the victims saying how at least his son's death is helping promote peace. Sort of ruins the whole argument about the hash tag being disrespectful to the victims doesn't it.
I don't think it is disrespectful, but I think, like many cultural and race movements, it covers up the actual issue

I think it is good that it has unified australia, but, it's also stopped a lot of people from asking some serious questions about the Islamic culture, in fear of being labeled a racist

It's not all that different to the reaction people get when they speak up on other matters (assuming their view doesn't match the majority)
 

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People having a bash a #illridewithyou can get stuffed. After the Sydney raids there were various media reports of violence against Muslims and/or the vandalism of their possessions. That is just a fact. The #illridewithyou campaign was a well meaning attempt to offset that type of ill informed backlash. For normal people who aren't ideologues or racists, it is perfectly possible to show this act of solidarity to Muslims while also expressing grief for those that have been effected by this pathetic crime. None of the Muslims, Samoans, Anglos, Vietnamese, Chinese, etc., paying their sympathies at Martin Place yesterday could give a **** about the hate and politics of the Miranda Devine and Bolt types, or the ramblings of punters like RisingPhoenix. And good for them. They are better people as a result.
In the words of that moron Pyne, "here here"
 
I'll have a go at explaining for you. I find the sentiment that Muslim Australians need someone to "ride with them" to protect them from bigoted, xenophobic, racist rednecks in the wider Australian community to be extremely offensive. It'd be like me suggesting that I need someone to "ride with me" through Western Sydney so I don't get shot and/or blown up by a raghead terrorist extremist. You see that sentiment is also offensive. In both cases we're talking about tiny minorities, and I have no real reason to fear. The difference is that in my counter example, the fear has some basis in reality, in the form of real body bags and real death counts, while the supposed threat to the Muslim community referenced by #illridewithyou tweeters doesn't exist except in the fevered imagination of your average lefty. So yeah, the fact that they start tweeting about some make-believe threat to the Muslim community from their fellow Australians, while real people were being shot by a Muslim extremist with 14,000 facebook likes, yeah that pisses me off.

Demonising your average Australian bogan by pretending they are thugs who the Muslim community needs to be protected from - yes I find that sickening and offensive. I'm sure most of the tweeters gave it only the shallowest thought and had honest intentions. They probably thought, 'oh i'm a good person, this doesn't apply to me', but the whole thing speaks to how the ivory tower left (and the woman who started it is a card carrying member) view their fellow citizens. Cultural cringe and self-loathing. "I wanted to tell her I was sorry for so many things... for belonging to a culture where racism was part of her everyday experience.". That is self-loathing 101.
Comprehension skills appear to be inversely proportional to your level of intolerance.

I see now why this campaign is so offensive to the hate filled right.

It's a campaign about empathy- a concept completely foreign to a rabid minority in this country.
 

Footy Smarts

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I don't think it is disrespectful, but I think, like many cultural and race movements, it covers up the actual issue

I think it is good that it has unified australia, but, it's also stopped a lot of people from asking some serious questions about the Islamic culture, in fear of being labeled a racist

It's not all that different to the reaction people get when they speak up on other matters (assuming their view doesn't match the majority)

Except for every person who genuinely wants a conversation there are probably 10 that are just being outright racist. I'll assume you're one of the genuine ones.

The main problem is that the argument isn't tenable. There are about 500,000 Muslims living in Australia and we've had a significant Muslim population for a long time. If Islam were the cause we would've seen this type of thing a lot because there are a lot of Muslims. Instead this is the first time a Muslim has killed people in Australia in what could be described as an act of terrorism. The Muslim community also warned the police about him years ago. That just doesn't fit with Islam being the issue.
 
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Except for every person who genuinely wants a conversation there are probably 10 that are just being outright racist. I'll assume you're one of the genuine ones.

The main problem is that the argument isn't tenable. There are about 500,000 Muslims living in Australia and we've had a significant Muslim population for a long time. If Islam were the cause we would've seen this type of thing a lot because there are a lot of Muslims. Instead this is the first time a Muslim has killed people in Australia in what could be described as an act of terrorism. The Muslim community also warned the police about him years ago. That just doesn't fit with Islam being the issue.
Just because it is the first incident, doesn't mean it isn't a problem

It's a "who shot first" argument
Both are as bad as each other in terms of racism and hate
As you said, Muslims are the minority, meaning, they're often drowned out


I should add, my PT is Muslim, so it's not my opinion solely, but what I've also discussed with her
 
It blows my mind that anyone could abhor what was a well meaning gesture.

Would you actually rather pitchforks?

As for this idea that it's symptomatic of some sort of cultural cringe- what a load of bollocks. That is so far removed from acknowledging that the actions of one nutjob does not tar the entire Islamic community with one brush. I suppose, therefore, it's not surprising that those who take exception to the # are the ones who like to indulge in mass generalisations and scream in emotive language about the problem with the entire community of Lebanese Muslims in Sydney...er, even though this was actually perpetrated by an Iranian. They're all just the same, I suppose!
 

Track Pants

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It blows my mind that anyone could abhor what was a well meaning gesture.

Would you actually rather pitchforks?

As for this idea that it's symptomatic of some sort of cultural cringe- what a load of bollocks. That is so far removed from acknowledging that the actions of one nutjob does not tar the entire Islamic community with one brush. I suppose, therefore, it's not surprising that those who take exception to the # are the ones who like to indulge in mass generalisations and scream in emotive language about the problem with the entire community of Lebanese Muslims in Sydney...er, even though this was actually perpetrated by an Iranian. They're all just the same, I suppose!
Most crime in Australia is committed by white males.
#sitnexttomeplease
There was an interesting thread about Islam and crime on this board not long ago, I suggest you check it out.
 
Oh I'm sure there are dickheads around, but you've missed my wider point.

You can't have it both ways. If we're all meant to be polite and pretend that the Muslim community are all peace-loving and wonderful people, and pretend the extremists don't exist, or that they're unrepresentative, then ok. But then the left takes the same standard for the wider community and inverts it. How would you feel about a #i'll-ride-with-you-through-western-sydney-so-you-don't-get-suicide-bombed hashtag? A little bit different? Not fair to insinuate that your average Muslim is a potential threat? Then why don't you extend the same courtesy to your average Australian? It's not like the hashtag was in response to some incident, it pre-empted any response, effectively assuming the worst about Australians. I find it embarrassing and offensive.
Who says Muslim extremists don't exist? Where are you being asked to "pretend" that?

Conversely, the illridewithyou thing doesn't make the assumption that all Australians would indulge in a backlash against Muslims.

Where do you get this s**t from? Seriously.
 
It blows my mind that anyone could abhor what was a well meaning gesture.

Would you actually rather pitchforks?
I suspect that there are some here who are seriously disappointed that there was no backlash against the Muslim population.

Which would explain the vehement opposition to the illridewithyou campaign.
 
So because Lester is right wing he's buddies withthe ADL? Lame.
I was being facetious given this board often groups "lefties" into one single identified mass.

Glad you're on the ball and understood :thumbsu:
 
You'd be very wrong.

I'm happy to talk about Islamic militarism and fundamentalism - and this is just the thread to do it.

It's not the thread to have pot shots at moderation.
I also want to reiterate this.

If you want to discuss moderation, take it to PM please. Don't derail threads with it.
 
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