Strategy 2015 best side

[catempire]

Might well be, but I'll be interested to see which of Stanley, Walker and Vardy have the tank and/or ability to hold down CHF next year.
I have to assume any of those three are in the side to be the second ruck too?
Further to the original point, will any of them have the tank and/or ability to do both?

I am not being definitive there at all, more asking that question.

For what it's worth, I have Clark picked at CHF and the very same argument applies there, I just see him as the most AFL established of the rest.
I like Kersten as the 3rd tall, after clearly running out of legs as the 2nd tall this year but have no proof that will work either.

It will certainly be one of the most interesting aspects of the side's set up next season for sure.

Can't see any reason why Walker and Stanley don't have the tank. Ability, of course, is another matter. Structurally though, the three talls setup looks more dangerous to me than the two.

And if it's Walker, I don't want him anywhere near the ruck. That has been a repeated failed experiment that we need not revisit. There are many other better options now.

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

Quite surprised we ranked 12th for hit outs this year, would have thought we would have finished in the bottom 4 for sure.

What part of hmacs game do you like? Is it his enormous leap? Or is it his overhead pack marking? Or is it his gazelle like running up and down the ground that allows him to be a target and an accountable defender? Ok. I'm being a smart ass. But really, jokes aside, what does hmac offer our side? Cos I'm racking my brain and can't think of anything he's gonna offer- except a contest at a center bounce or a boundary throw in- and of we are happy with that-eyes just re draft Blakey cos at least he played every week.

This can also apply to Simpson.

Hmac offers more around the ground then Simpson, but Simpson is slightly better at taps.

Both of these guys are better in the ruck then Blivcas or Stanley, who are both poor.

So who would you like in the ruck?

 

[Turbocat]

Turbo, I also have warm fuzzie's about Blease, now we've got our talls I really like this pickup. I'm just guessing, but I'm thinking Roos was looking to harden up and develop the Dees inside game including their defence, and Sammy's been pretty much ignored with the outside talent he brings.
Melbourne obviously disinterested in his footy qualities has given us the chance to acquire this ex P19 for peanuts.
Any wonder he was disinterested at training by all accounts.

Since joining the club (our club) he's gone hard from the get go, and I reckon we might see something that Melbourne never did from Sammy Blease.

One can only hope , we need a little bit of luck that a few of our competitors have been granted.

Blease was apparently liked by Wells back in his draft period but as we all know , the draft rating becomes less relevant as time go's on. I do agree thou , that at least superficially , his game style suits "us" a bit more than what Roos wants to do. He goes back to when Melb drafted to almost try to build a side like us. Roos has his POV and thats fair enough..but I ( and I think most Geelong people) want more than just a win by any means. And Blease is a Risk Reward player. If we can live with the down side of his risk , if he works really hard ie matches the work rate of any at our club then I can see him being here longer than 1 year . First things first. Its all on him to prove himself.. have we had any strong reports on his look at training?

 

[meto]

One can only hope , we need a little bit of luck that a few of our competitors have been granted.

Blease was apparently liked by Wells back in his draft period but as we all know , the draft rating becomes less relevant as time go's on. I do agree thou , that at least superficially , his game style suits "us" a bit more than what Roos wants to do. He goes back to when Melb drafted to almost try to build a side like us. Roos has his POV and thats fair enough..but I ( and I think most Geelong people) want more than just a win by any means. And Blease is a Risk Reward player. If we can live with the down side of his risk , if he works really hard ie matches the work rate of any at our club then I can see him being here longer than 1 year . First things first. Its all on him to prove himself.. have we had any strong reports on his look at training?

So far all is very well with his application. The great thing is, we're not dealing with a Lang or a Gore here, we're looking at a guy that's played big time and done some pretty impressive things.
He does have the talent, and he's young.

 

[bph25]

HMac is finished. He was finished when David Hale raped him for 2 hours straight in the first final. Ask yourself, realistically, why did we give away pick 21 for Stanley? He is 199cm and solid. He's not gonna play as a key back - Lonergan, taylor and Rivers all are contracted to the end of 2016 at least. He isnt gonna play forward. Clark, Hawkins, Kersten and Walker are all in front of him. He isnt needed to be a relief ruckman. Blitz in bursts has been ok at that, and Vardy is coming back - and as previously mentioned, if Clark, Hawkins, Walker and Kersten are fit, Vardy will struggle to get a game in the forward line - so he is a relief ruckman.

So imo, the ONLY reason you give SUCH a high draft pick for Rhys Stanley, is if you think he can play number 1 ruck. Cos Dawson is finished. The only reason he is still on the list is becaue he ha a contract, so if you have to pay him, may as well see if the 5% chance he will come good again actually happens. But honestly, the club are doubtful he will ever play 1's again. HMac is cooked. His knees are stuffed. He has no mobility and he cant push up and down the ground, so EVERY ruckman that has wheels will kick goals on him and expose him.

Like it or not, the fact they spent pick 21 tells me that Stanley is your new number 1 ruckman.

100% correct

 

[bph25]

Most teams have 1 or 2 rucks. Usually the teams with 2 rucks sub one off in the last as they cant afford 2 dinosaurs out there.
We lost the finals last year because our rucks couldn't do the damage that was inflicted on us by the hawthorn rucks.
I think we play Stanley as first ruck.
Blitz in the side as a utility and doing stints in the ruck running hard.
Mitch Clarke going through the ruck when Stanley goes forward.
Dont forget Mitch made his name as a ruck and was moved forward due to need. I could see him playing more and more in the ruck for us especially if Vardy gets back on the park.
If Vardy does get back out on the park in good form he can also be used in the ruck and is athletic.

Teams will be forced to play 2 rucks against us.
There is no way any side would tackle Geelong with one ruck as they would be run off their legs in a big way.
Thats a win for us already.
Then when its time to sub do they drop the extra ruck and possibly leave there tired 1st ruck to tackle 3 ruckman on his own.
Could be very benefitial in the final term for us.
I think Stanley, Mitch, Blitz and Vardy at some stage will all be in the side.
Tall I know but not your usual talls who become a liability.
They would become a weapon later in games.
The old saying about tall blokes not getting any shorter as the game goes on.
Well when they are capable runners and athletic its only a bonus.

Cant wait to see how this works out.

 

[you pick one]

Can't see any reason why Walker and Stanley don't have the tank. Ability, of course, is another matter. Structurally though, the three talls setup looks more dangerous to me than the two.

And if it's Walker, I don't want him anywhere near the ruck. That has been a repeated failed experiment that we need not revisit. There are many other better options now.

It wasn't a failed experiment it was simply as Scott once put it he'd run out of options.

 

[catempire]

It wasn't a failed experiment it was simply as Scott once put it he'd run out of options.

True that. But we still learnt from it, didn't we?

 

[you pick one]

True that. But we still learnt from it, didn't we?

Some did some didn't, there are a few come on here from time to time who have judged the young 20/21 year old at the time Walker on what he could produce as a makeshift ruckman, grossly unfair.

 

[catempire]

Some did some didn't, there are a few come on here from time to time who have judged the young 20/21 year old at the time Walker on what he could produce as a makeshift ruckman, grossly unfair.

Unfair, yes. But going back to what I said, I don't want to see him there (rucking) again. Agree?

 

[TheHonestyPolicy]

Can't see any reason why Walker and Stanley don't have the tank. Ability, of course, is another matter. Structurally though, the three talls setup looks more dangerous to me than the two.

And if it's Walker, I don't want him anywhere near the ruck. That has been a repeated failed experiment that we need not revisit. There are many other better options now.

As it stands and given our current list balance I am not opposed to the 3 tall set-up against certain sides and defences (until proven differently and seeing it in action) and as long as there is a workable cohesive strategy of 2 players with pace once the ball hits the turf. My best guess would be two talls and Kersten currently, but that can change in time. There's going to be a lot of experimentation.

 

[you pick one]

Unfair, yes. But going back to what I said, I don't want to see him there (rucking) again. Agree?

Yep.

 

[Catsmaninamerica]

Quite surprised we ranked 12th for hit outs this year, would have thought we would have finished in the bottom 4 for sure.



This can also apply to Simpson.

Hmac offers more around the ground then Simpson, but Simpson is slightly better at taps.

Both of these guys are better in the ruck then Blivcas or Stanley, who are both poor.

So who would you like in the ruck?

Go watch the hawthorn final again. And re read my post. Simpson is done. His back is ****ed. Hmac is cooked. His knees are shot. He has no leap a all. He has no ability to cover the ground. So a ruckman with wheels like hale will in him ragged a expose him by marking the footy both as a target coming out of the defensive half, and as an option to kick goals.

So with that in mind, I want to see Vardy and Stanley ruck right through the preseason. I want them to get hours and hours of coaching from pill ottens, and I'm praying they can get the job done. Cos physically HMac and Simpson just can't.

 

[meto]

please no!
Leave him forward so he can monster defenders. The kid is a beast but this obsession in turning KPP's into ruckman is hurting our chances of winning and I'd suspect, making it a little difficult for the player to gain confidence as the game wears on having a bloke 6ft'8 & 105kg's smashing the living s**t out of them.

I remember more than once watching him clouting the ball forward after the ruck contest, just forcing the pill forward with open hands. It was pure power play with no respect for the oppositions mids, he just cut a path through, impressive stuff.

I can even see him as a massive midfielder, but I agree his marking and power game including his speed and endurance should see him as a prime forward, a huge problem for defenders. By all intents this year should be the break out year for Josh.
I think a couple of his marks when he finally got a game late in the season stamped him as someone to watch 2015.

 

[Catsmaninamerica]

I remember more than once watching him clouting the ball forward after the ruck contest, just forcing the pill forward with open hands. It was pure power play with no respect for the oppositions mids, he just cut a path through, impressive stuff.

I can even see him as a massive midfielder, but I agree his marking and power game including his speed and endurance should see him as a prime forward, a huge problem for defenders. By all intents this year should be the break out year for Josh.

Could. Agree more. I have not been a fan - in fact I'm on record as having posted that walker would never make it. But after the finals series I take it back and apologise. He could be anything by the time he's 24...

 

[meto]

Could. Agree more. I have not been a fan - in fact I'm on record as having posted that walker would never make it. But after the finals series I take it back and apologise. He could be anything by the time he's 24...

He's been held back because of preference for Kersten although in the 2013 VFL GF it was Walker who fought it out and stood up, the kids got a little mongrel in him as well.
He started as a raw kid, just a rookie, so his first couple of years were always going to be slow development, but now he's matured I can see him becoming that hard nut senior who really believes he belongs.
He's also one of the best and fittest athlete's at the club despite his size, he'll fire a few shots in 2015.

 

[Turbocat]

Go watch the hawthorn final again. And re read my post. Simpson is done. His back is stuffed. Hmac is cooked. His knees are shot. He has no leap a all. He has no ability to cover the ground. So a ruckman with wheels like hale will in him ragged a expose him by marking the footy both as a target coming out of the defensive half, and as an option to kick goals.

So with that in mind, I want to see Vardy and Stanley ruck right through the preseason. I want them to get hours and hours of coaching from pill ottens, and I'm praying they can get the job done. Cos physically HMac and Simpson just can't.

In the Podcast , its mentioned that the original recruiter that has links to Stanley though he was a Ruckman going to waste. He is 201/202 and highly athletic so I can see the appeal of putting effort and time into him.

The was whispers that Simpson was doing it hard after the 4th op .... I think Selwood said he had to tough it out or something like that , he the issues with the driving infraction..... and on here there were speculation/whispers that he was close to pulling the pin. Who could blame him if he did. He has not , so I suspect the club must see him as a possibility , that at his best he may offer something no one else does. Thing is for someone so big he has never lasted a season. They also probably suspect he is not someone we can rely on.
On Hmac , I just do not think he can play to the athletic level required anymore. Unless he can show a much fitter, more mobile player I feel he will be passed over by the options we have brought in.

I like that we have also now have a couple of long term development types in Read and Lucey. 2 guys so in 2 to 3 years we should have another option. In the mean time fitness allowing I think we will give the traditions a chance preseason perhaps in tandem with Stanley , him playing a resting role as the 3rd forward and rucking.

 

[Turbocat]

Could. Agree more. I have not been a fan - in fact I'm on record as having posted that walker would never make it. But after the finals series I take it back and apologise. He could be anything by the time he's 24...

I have been a fan of Walkers but now Im not sure where he fits. Cant see Hawkins and Clark and a resting ruck like Stanley and then add Walker? Kersten is the better fit imo. So much height would mean he would have a better matchup.
As I said I like Josh , and its a bit cruel that the new additions hurt his spot when he played so well , as a KPP player in his early 20's in the finals. If Clark stays fit , im not liking his chances.

 

[you pick one]

I have been a fan of Walkers but now Im not sure where he fits. Cant see Hawkins and Clark and a resting ruck like Stanley and then add Walker? Kersten is the better fit imo. So much height would mean he would have a better matchup.
As I said I like Josh , and its a bit cruel that the new additions hurt his spot when he played so well , as a KPP player in his early 20's in the finals. If Clark stays fit , im not liking his chances.

I'm a fan too and think he has massive up side,he hits packs harder in the air than anybody we have had since senior,out of contract end of 2015 we will rue the day if we shovel this young bloke out at the end of next season.He will be around AFL somewhere for a long time to come ,he may not be the coldest can in the fridge either but he's a working mans drink,I hope we find a spot for him.

 

[TheJimmyCartel]

TC, I didn't quote it but I was referring to Partridge's post above mine that the club seemed to have committed to Clark at CHF.

My point was that many seem to be assuming that to be the case but to me there are a few issues with it. Is Clark fit enough to play that lead up role that requires a huge tank? Does it achieve the objective of helping Hawkins out and preventing double and triple teaming? Are there not better options structurally that play to our relative advantage in stocks of tall forwards - e.g. A three tall setup?

Bottom line: I expect to see Hawkins and Clark deep with the Stanley, Walker and Vardy vying for the CHF position.

Can you see Kersten in that linup as well? (Given he's fit and showing some form of course) I think he could but I'd be concerned having Kersten and Bartel around those three. I think you have to have two of Murdoch/Blease/McCarthy/Cockatoo/Gregson/Lang/Motlop/Whoever our smalls are going to be etc at their feet at all times

This is the 'Kelly/Bartel Conundrum' as I see it - They're both average size and pace but with very good runs on the board, still with the potential to play very well. However, have grown more inconsistent with age and aren't able to really play anywhere other than forward/back, where they can't play tall and aren't fast or agile enough to play small. As long as they remain 'automatic selections' regardless of form, like they did in 2014, they create structural and developmental problems for the side. Bartel plays forward, he lacks the pace and agility to be a small crumbing forward and if you play him alongside a 3 tall setup, I don't think you can play him alongside a Murdoch/Kersten type (which stifles their development) plus only one true small, as that makes us too slow and not agile enough at ground level, where the ball is going to end up a LOT with 3 crashing tall forwards. We need to have 2 legit smalls if we're going 3 big guys.

It's a similar situtaion for Kelly at the other end restricting Bews/Thurlow, which would provide that extra zip that we desperately lack. For me, as much as I hate to see the decline of our champion footballers, I think if they're not in the in the side at years end that we will be heading in much better direction. If they are in the team come finals, they'd want to be playing pretty good football.

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

Go watch the hawthorn final again. And re read my post. Simpson is done. His back is stuffed. Hmac is cooked. His knees are shot. He has no leap a all. He has no ability to cover the ground. So a ruckman with wheels like hale will in him ragged a expose him by marking the footy both as a target coming out of the defensive half, and as an option to kick goals.

So with that in mind, I want to see Vardy and Stanley ruck right through the preseason. I want them to get hours and hours of coaching from pill ottens, and I'm praying they can get the job done. Cos physically HMac and Simpson just can't.

Hale will destroy anyone we put on the park, he is the best mobile ruck in the league. So that argument is a mute point.

Vardy is as good as Simpson at clogging up our rehab program.So I wouldn't rely on him getting up.

I hope that Stanley can become a decent ruck too, but at the moment we don't even know where he'll play, let alone having the ability playing as a number 1 ruck.

Unfortunately if fit, Hmac will be our number 1 ruck come round 1 and heads on here might explode.

 

[Catsmaninamerica]

Hale will destroy anyone we put on the park, he is the best mobile ruck in the league. So that argument is a mute point.

Vardy is as good as Simpson at clogging up our rehab program.So I wouldn't rely on him getting up.

I hope that Stanley can become a decent ruck too, but at the moment we don't even know where he'll play, let alone having the ability playing as a number 1 ruck.

Unfortunately if fit, Hmac will be our number 1 ruck come round 1 and heads on here might explode.

If e can get fit then super. My point is I for think he can. s**t he hasn't been sighted on the track yet apparently. My thought is the reason we spent pick 21 on Stanley is cos they knew Simpson and hmac wouldn't be an option in 2015.

 

[catempire]

Can you see Kersten in that linup as well? (Given he's fit and showing some form of course) I think he could but I'd be concerned having Kersten and Bartel around those three. I think you have to have two of Murdoch/Blease/McCarthy/Cockatoo/Gregson/Lang/Motlop/Whoever our smalls are going to be etc at their feet at all times

This is the 'Kelly/Bartel Conundrum' as I see it - They're both average size and pace but with very good runs on the board, still with the potential to play very well. However, have grown more inconsistent with age and aren't able to really play anywhere other than forward/back, where they can't play tall and aren't fast or agile enough to play small. As long as they remain 'automatic selections' regardless of form, like they did in 2014, they create structural and developmental problems for the side. Bartel plays forward, he lacks the pace and agility to be a small crumbing forward and if you play him alongside a 3 tall setup, I don't think you can play him alongside a Murdoch/Kersten type (which stifles their development) plus only one true small, as that makes us too slow and not agile enough at ground level, where the ball is going to end up a LOT with 3 crashing tall forwards. We need to have 2 legit smalls if we're going 3 big guys.

It's a similar situtaion for Kelly at the other end restricting Bews/Thurlow, which would provide that extra zip that we desperately lack. For me, as much as I hate to see the decline of our champion footballers, I think if they're not in the in the side at years end that we will be heading in much better direction. If they are in the team come finals, they'd want to be playing pretty good football.

The short answer is yes.

I know I'm on my own on this, but my preferred forward six is:

HF: Kersten, Walker/Stanley/Vardy, Murdoch
F: Clark, Hawkins, Bartel/McCarthy

My overriding consideration is that you pick your forward six that is going to kick the most goals for you. I don't believe taking a tall out of that six and adding a small is going to make it more potent. If we had a Betts, Ballantyne, Thomas or Wingard - a top echelon small forward - then of course they'd slot straight in. But we don't so we need to make the call given what we have.

There's no concern with the pace of that half forward line so it's really a call on the forward three. Others have Clark out at CHF but I can't see that given they want to draw fire from Hawkins and given where Clark is coming from injury and fitness-wise.

I think you sell Bartel short a little. He kicked 27 goals this year and averaged over four tackles a game. That's more defensive pressure than those top echelon small forwards I've named. What he lacks in pace he makes up for in smarts and his ability to outmark a small opponent. He is a lock for a forward pocket in 2015. McCarthy will get chances to prove himself and I have quite high hopes that he'll make it and take over from Bartel in 2016 and beyond.

Good teams make their opponents reactive to their tactics and setups. I think my forward six would do that.

At the other end of the ground I agree with you because we have that ready made replacement for Kelly in Bews. Kelly will (or should) move back into the midfield and see out his twilight years there.

 

[David the Cat]

So I assume catempire, you're playing Motlop on a wing?

 

[vinum coupe]

Wow I can't see that forward six CE.
I think we'd be dead ducks.

The team would look like this

B ------ Lonergan - Rivers
HB ------ Taylor - Blicavs
C ------ ------- --------
HF: Kersten, Walker/Vardy, .........
F: Clark, Hawkins, ........
R; Stanley

Int: Hmac ?

We'd get slaughtered.