Bruce Francis

[blackcat]

Plural is still ficus!

was rhetoric, just absurdist epigram signoff. but thnx either way. you raised me my first go.

i assumed it might have been ficus. but do they outgrow a potplant? or do you have to ask the experts at poyntons?

 

[yaco55]

It's quite interesting going through this material from last year. We are reminded of little bits of information here and there that we may have forgotten about, or which we didn't quite get the significance of it first time around.

So immediately after AD warning Evans that EFC is in deep, he calls Dr Reid to his home and asks him if the players had taken anything prohibited. Dr Reid is shocked by the question and answers no without hesitation.

This is a Doctor who has been around the footy club forever. Known and respected throughout the footy industry, his reputation cannot be matched.

It is already in the evidence that he immediately expressed concern about the administration of Tribulus, which ended up being not prohibited. So this is a man who quite clearly will not sit idly by if the club is using prohibited substances.

Presumably the AFLPA will be able to call him up, good reputation, experienced, knowledgeable and with more inside knowledge of what happened within the EFC than anyone ASADA can near to.

The AFLPA will ask him the direct question. Dr Reid will give the same answer he gave Evans back in Feb 2013. He never came across any evidence of anything prohibited. He would not have allowed it if there had even been a suggestion of it.

Up against the the reputation of Dr Reid, widely known and respected through out the footy industry, you have the ASADA lawyer, Dennis Denuto, representing an organisation which has been caught out doctoring the evidence time and time again.

You can see why it was a farce that the AFL charged Dr Reid - Do you think Dr Reid or Evans received t the tip off ?

 

[yaco55]

Fantastic. There are agencies available to them to get this into a 'real' court but again I notice that not one of these accusers have taken that option, not one is prepared to sign a statement to that effect and not one is prepared to go on record to that effect...and no, a Chip Legrand newspaper article is not anything like a signed and witnessed statement or Statutory Declaration

Strange that at least two people have refused affidavits ( Alavi, Charter ) and at least one person refused to sign ASADA's statement of intervies ( Suki Hobson ) I believe there may be two other EFC employees in a similar situation - Surely thisis telling us something ?

 

[yaco55]

Depends on the reasoning for a not guilty. If they've been found to have not taken prohibited substances, then I'll take it back. If they're found not guilty on a technicality, or on insufficient evidence, then no I won't.

So, if EFC players are proven guilty at the tribunal, are you going to take back all the bullshit you've written and apologise to hard working public servants who were doing their job? Perhaps start to ask questions of your club, or Large Fries?

I'm guessing not. I'm guessing you'll still be claiming a stitch up.

You should give up now - Not guilty because of insufficient evidence is NOT GUILTY - This is clearly NOT GUILTY - Either ASADA proves their case or not - There is no gilding of the lily.

 

[yaco55]

Untrue.

Noone is proven to have doped. Entirely correct
Players have been accused and accused only. Entirely correct
ASADA has been accused of manipulating witness statements. Not correct simply because not one of the accusers is prepared to go on record to make that accusation. Its easy to conduct a PR campaign in the press but a real accusation requires a signed and witnessed statement and nobody want to do that. IF they ever do then we have something to investigate.

There is no hypocrisy just applying identical standards.

Surely refusing to sign the affidavits shows the accusers believe their statement is not a true and accurate representation of their interview - You can spin it a million times but you come up with the same answer.

 

[yaco55]

The players have been lied to by the club though. Ryder told us that. Unless of course Ryder is on the conspiracy too!

McVeigh lied publicly.
Hird lied publicly.
Little lied publicly.
Ryder tells us they lied to him and other players.

I mean really, god only knows what they've told the players to do and why.

Thought Ryder told white lies to his wife - hence why he moved to Adelaide.

 

[blackcat]

Thought Ryder told white lies to his wife - hence why he moved to Adelaide.

if this like the Lleyton Hewitt Andrew McLeod fallout?

where did our Kim aussie Kim, Kim Clijsters sit there? spit?

 

[yaco55]

Of course you have a verifiable source to show us about this ludicrous statement don't you?

Can you provide justification for the Federal Government appointing Justice Downes to review ASADA's brief of evidence? Has this ever happened to ASADA in the past ?

I have found no evidence of this particular type of intervention by a Goevernment in the history of ASADA. And this is taking into account the meddling of the ALP Government.

 

[yaco55]

1. Do you have proof this occurred

2. Is it possible the new CEO was briefed/

Just because you Bruce, Chips and other supporters of the Essendon cause say something doesn't make it true.

For a start - I 100% agree with GG's summation - And he/she is making valid assertions - You need to get your facts rights about protagonists - I directly asked Bruce on BB - Has their been any political interference by the Liberal Government ? His answer no - So Bruce doesn't share GG's assertions - I posted the same assertion as GG about Justice Downes appointment on the Essendon Board in March/April 2013 - I've had little support and its created little discussion - So only a limited number of Essendon supporters online share the GG assertion - There has been nothing written by any media questioning the Justice Downes appointment.

So the Justice Downes assertion is one shared by GG, myself and one or two others - This opinion is hardly widespread amongst Essendon supporters. Some more context - I continually read about political/senate/judicial Enquiry - These events only happen if there is a significant national issue of importance and they are never called by the Government of the day if they have something to hide, UNLESS there is overwhelming public pressure - I doubt there will be a political enquiry into the whole saga - there may be an enquiry/investigation into ASADA, but expect to have a narrow terms of reference.

 

[yaco55]

if this like the Lleyton Hewitt Andrew McLeod fallout?

where did our Kim aussie Kim, Kim Clijsters sit there? spit?

I know you love your cryptic clues

We could say that Christensen and Ryder had similar issues - And they wouldn't go to any Melbourne based AFL teams - Anyway, getting a hefty pay increase is a good way to get back in the partner's good books.

We've got to remember the Days of our Lives soap opera is an everyday occurrence in footy clubs.

 

[yaco55]

if this like the Lleyton Hewitt Andrew McLeod fallout?

where did our Kim aussie Kim, Kim Clijsters sit there? spit?

Spit - Been a few of those in the AFL industry - And one leading figure in this saga love a Sunday roast with one of his media colleagues.

 

[Satan]

I know you love your cryptic clues

We could say that Christensen and Ryder had similar issues - And they wouldn't go to any Melbourne based AFL teams - Anyway, getting a hefty pay increase is a good way to get back in the partner's good books.

We've got to remember the Days of our Lives soap opera is an everyday occurrence in footy clubs.

Ducking issues again?

 

[blackcat]

Spit - Been a few of those in the AFL industry - And one leading figure in this saga love a Sunday roast with one of his media colleagues.

snow blow.

 

[yaco55]

Link please, no doubt charges have been laid, if not why don't we stick on Essendon and Bruce well particularly Bruce as that is what the thread is about.

I'm sure the Bulletin has its own board you could post your diatribes about Government procedure to that, unfortunately Governments are a necessary evil, whereas drug cheats, if any players are found to be so, we can do without.

All this information came out in the Federal Court Case and is available online - I have no idea why you are complaining !

 

[yaco55]

Ducking issues again?

This post is directed at Blackcat - Your post offers nothing of substance.

 

[yaco55]

I agree Thompson has been wronged,Hird and Corcoran are absolute grubs though,that's from the information that's been made available to me.

Will say that Corcoran has escaped scrutiny - Many Essendon supporters wrote at the time that Corcoran should never have been allowed back to EFC after his previous stint at the Club. A shocking decision.

 

[replicant]

He's definitely not a journalist.

Journalists are trained to look at context and be objective along with some writing skills. I can't see BF exhibiting any of those traits.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

So how do you explain Robbo?

 

[Crankyhawk]

I haven't seen anyone claiming he is gospel except for those, like yourself, claiming that others think he is gospel

Gigantor for one seems to think he is gospel. And dan cooper.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

He's definitely not a journalist.

Journalists are trained to look at context and be objective along with some writing skills. I can't see BF exhibiting any of those traits.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Half of the HUN and age newsrooms just went "huh???"

 

[D-N-R]

Can you provide justification for the Federal Government appointing Justice Downes to review ASADA's brief of evidence? Has this ever happened to ASADA in the past ?

I have found no evidence of this particular type of intervention by a Goevernment in the history of ASADA. And this is taking into account the meddling of the ALP Government.

The Essendon case is unprecedented in size and scale. Has a case of this size happened in the past? This isn't like someone missing a doping test or the Saad case which are pretty much cut and dried. This is a case with an enormous amount of documentation with the people being investigated have large legal teams and deep pockets and with investigators having to travel to foreign countries to try and unravel this mess.

Who says that it is the government interfering in the case rather than ASADA / the government asking for someone who is experienced in dealing with large, complex legal cases to run the show? I think it is pertinent that someone with a great deal of experience in this size of investigation is making sure it is running smoothly. Governments and ministers stick their beaks into everything, especially when the bills start mounting up.

This doesn't mean that ASADA has buckled under pressure or are concocting a completely fabricated case against Essendon.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

It wasn't all one way traffic - BF did also say this:



The issue of Evans-Calzada-AOD-Dank remains one of the great unanswered questions in all of this.

There are also unresolved medicare fraud issues .

Alavi is playing all innocent victim - but why was Alavi involved in all of this in the first place? If EFC were just taking stuff you can buy at chemist warehouse (like they claim) - they didn't ever need Alavi.

Just my suspicion, but I've always believed Alavi was there to help the fraud side of things for dank.

Why do you compound items that don't need compounding? Maybe to dilute the stuff you sell to efc so you can keep some for yourself. No proof, just personal suspicion

You look at alavis behavior, and it doesn't in any way reflect a professional chemist. And what does he have to hide by avoiding the tribunal? If asada manipulated his statement, doesn't he want to set the record straight?

Then we have the infamous photo. I know it's been a thing of much mirth for most here, but there is one easy way to assess if it was likely legit, did the other vials they received from dank/charter/Alavi have similar amateur labels on them. Fwiw I wouldn't be surprised if they were, because that label while a joke ensures one thing - zero traceability. Definitely something you want if you are committing fraud.

Please note this isn't saying the materials were all WADA compliant. I just think the main game for these morons was ripping off a very gullible efc for a few bucks (when dank blew his budget by 150% in six months it's a sign he was milking that cow for all its worth), and the Medicare fraud

Btw, the photo taken isn't completely unusual for record keeping, but the way it was done underlines how hopeless the compliance procedures at efc were. Normally a photo is only taken if there is a defect for claims purposes (to show a broken seal, leak, damage, or wrong spec/batch info). This obviously wasn't. But I had some customers who would photograph key materials to validate receipt. This is in addition to adding the details to their inventory logs. The whole point of the photo though is to show the batch code and spec code for reconciliation. The fact the idiot didn't manage an inventory log, and thought a photo without batch code and product code info was just embarrassing. Fwiw I actually think it was a legit pic just because if you wanted to fake a label for asada purposes a 13 year old could do better. It's sad though that such a piss poor label was considered proof of authenticity by efc officials.

A tip for afl clubs. If you are going to ensure traceability of your materials, make sure the person doing it understands the product and understands traceability. An idiot ex footballer who is paid to move witches hats probably shouldn't be your first choice

 

[Ned_Flanders]

If there is anyone else out there with access to the interim report and/or brief of evidence, and who is referencing large chunks from it, let's have a look at it. Put up the links.

This is the point though, no one else does, so how can we:

1) know he has a legit report

2) agree with his interpretation of the raw info in it

Probably the only decent post in the whole torrent of abuse hurled at BFC was the suggestion he upload it to Dropbox or similar. If any efc posters are still in contact with him, I'd encourage them to suggest this strongly to him, and (if he needs it) explain how it's done (given his vintage and the fact he hand typed a report to duplicate it rather than convert the pdf to word, I'm guessing he's it illiterate)

More than any of his interpretations, I think releasing the interim report to the public is the best thing bf could do to aid the transparency of this investigation.

 

[Spongebob]

Just for a little Sunday morning reading, section 7 of this document outlines the labelling requirements of dispensed medicines. Compare and contrast with the photograph.

http://www.pharmacyboard.gov.au/doc.../2951&dbid=AP&chksum=WMyYdhKfX3+WGPiGUCLsMw==

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Just for a little Sunday morning reading, section 7 of this document outlines the labelling requirements of dispensed medicines. Compare and contrast with the photograph.

http://www.pharmacyboard.gov.au/documents/default.aspx?record=WD10/2951&dbid=AP&chksum=WMyYdhKfX3+WGPiGUCLsMw==

You don't even need that - the label doesn't even meet the needs for a chocolate bar.

As I mentioned though, the label is ideal for avoiding any traceability

 

[Max Headroom]

I was being a bit tongue in cheek - your timing of first post was quite a coincidence (long running joke for Echols and the book of "Essendon saga coincidences"), almost as if one of the regulars had started another avatar. I.e. "max" being the new avatar for an original "Edison" - "Two minds, but with one, single memory!"

I see! I gave a long writing sample though, should have been easy to pick if true...
Thanks for the tip, last time I looked I could only find it on dodgy sites (Women in prison films?!?!), wasn't keen to go there.