Carlton 2015

[Richo83]

Can't recall Presti. But Reid started as a forward I'm sure. But came in to the side and was given a long run in the side as a key defender after impressing in the VFL in that role.

Knowledgeable (and not trolling) Dogs fans have dismissed Jones as a defender whilst he was still there. But then again I think they are judging on a small sample size. He could certainly play key defender before he was drafted. He's athletic, has good size, neat skills (and seems to have improved his goal kicking) and can certainly take a grab at times. So really he's got the traits to play at either end. He can't seem to find the ball or win enough contests as a forward, so sometimes moving to CHB helps. But if you're not physically up for it at CHF then you hurt the team even more in the backline.

I'd persist with him forward. A good honest 3rd forward working in a system with Henderson and Casboult might be pretty handy. More useful than a middle of the road CHB which can usually be found easily enough. But if he's not doing much forward I'd give him a sustained run in the VFL and AFL as a defender.

Prestigiacomo has a career total of three AFL goals. I doubt he was ever a forward for very long. Reid made his career early in 2010 playing back, his first full year was down back and he's stuck there for most of the time. Reid is also a much more skilled footballer which makes him more adaptive.

I understand Jones has had some junior experience playing back but junior football is often loose and defenders are often judged on their athletic potential rather than stopping talent. At AFL level, Jones doesn't seem physical enough to play down back. I also think he'd be inferior to Jamison and Rowe which means he'd be playing as a third tall defender, which seems to be an odd move. Carlton have a hole in their KPF set up and if Jones doesn't fill it, then he seems to be not relevant to their current or future plans.

 

[Shuperman]

Sorry, can't help but feel Carlton are gonna be shocking this season.

 

[BM123]

Well Gillo thinks they're future stars

Graham and Johnson have played sfa games. To make a judgement call either way would be incredibly short sighted.

 

[BM123]

Jones played the last quarter in defence against Adelaide in Round 6 last season, and arguably cost us the game.

It wasn't that he couldn't compete physically or that the Adelaide forwards played that well, just that his constant brain fades were so much more costly.

He's big and strong, but he's just dumb. He has to play forward where his mistakes aren't as costly.

Rowe looked like complete crap when he first started down back this year. Bit of time later on and he was doing a great job down back in a struggling team.

 

[DaVillaBlues]

Sorry, can't help but feel Carlton are gonna be shocking this season.

I will bet the Sydney Opera House on Carlton finishing ahead of West Coast next season, we are nothing special yet, but very confident our list has a bigger upside then the Weagles.

If any team is going to tumble into bottom 4 waters next season, its West Coast, in my opinion.

 

[aussierulesrules]

I hear that Jones is an "explosive animal", who is going to have a "massive impact" for Carlton once they teach him how to jump for marks properly.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

Rowe looked like complete crap when he first started down back this year. Bit of time later on and he was doing a great job down back in a struggling team.

I'm not saying Jones can't eventually develop some sort of defensive craft, I just think he's far too susceptible to brain fades in the heat of the game and that it'll be too costly to play him in the back half.

If Carlton can drum some composure into him, he could be okay.

 

[Shuperman]

If any team is going to tumble into bottom 4 waters next season, its West Coast, in my opinion.

Okay

 

[pansies]

What I think a lot of people are not realising or at least I haven't seen it mentioned in this thread so far, having a good preseason correlates closely to having a good season. Last year Carlton had a huge number of players, 20+ I think, that had limited preseasons due to post season surgery. This year I think that number is down to 2. With a squad having a full and uninterrupted preseason I think it will be safe to presume that we will be better in 2015 compared to 2014. How much so? No one truly knows.

 

[BM123]

What I think a lot of people are not realising or at least I haven't seen it mentioned in this thread so far, having a good preseason correlates closely to having a good season. Last year Carlton had a huge number of players, 20+ I think, that had limited preseasons due to post season surgery. This year I think that number is down to 2. With a squad having a full and uninterrupted preseason I think it will be safe to presume that we will be better in 2015 compared to 2014. How much so? No one truly knows.

Don't believe the official reports though.

 

[Gone Critical]

Both started their AFL career down back though.

No Ben Reid started forward

 

[carnthedons]

I reckon most people on here hope Carlton have a shocking year mainly due to Gillo94's interesting opinions haha.

I admire his positivity but one thing that is laughable is the constant talk of how their younger players and draftees are so highly rated.

Honestly Johnson, Graham and Co look like good VFL players. Every club has younger players and if I lined up Carlton's younger players compared to many of the clubs around their position or lower and I can say that theirs look the least impressive bunch.

This team needs to go backwards before it can go forward. No quick fixes this time.

Nope, I can honestly say my desire for Carlton to be terrible has nothing to do with gillo94 although the posting does tickle my pickle

 

[Rushed_Behind]

Just on Carlton's youth can a knowledgeable Carlton supporter please state what they would expect in terms of a draft pick for each player. I know they haven't played any/many afl games but from what they have shown in the VFL and potential upside etc. excluding this years crop.

Players like Graham, Bell, Johnson, Cripps et al.

 

[pinot]

Just on Carlton's youth can a knowledgeable Carlton supporter please state what they would expect in terms of a draft pick for each player. I know they haven't played any/many afl games but from what they have shown in the VFL and potential upside etc. excluding this years crop.

Players like Graham, Bell, Johnson, Cripps et al.

Under 23 players
Graham - fourth round pick today but his stocks are rising
Menzel - First round pick
Cripps - second round pick with stocks are rising
Bell - late third round pick but do not see much more improvement just goes in hard and tries hard.
Johnson - no pick.
Jaksch - second round pick with stocks rising
Buckley - second round pick with stocks rising
Docherty - second round pick with stocks rising
(Yarran just turned 24 last week)
Giles - 195cm and still growing could still make it - no pick

We have 7-10 good kids on the books or something to work with.

 

[pinot]

Don't forget Bruce Doull played 100 games in reserves before becoming a regular. That was the Carlton way 15-20 years ago.... we had an academy too you know.. our 1970-1980 and early 1990 teams 70% of premiership players came through the under 19 youth system.. Rattan, Koutoufides, Christou, Fraser Brown, being the last of them. We want our youth system back Screw the Draft

 

[Ambrosia]

Under 23 players
Graham - fourth round pick today but his stocks are rising
Menzel - First round pick
Cripps - second round pick with stocks are rising
Bell - late third round pick but do not see much more improvement just goes in hard and tries hard.
Johnson - no pick.
Jaksch - second round pick with stocks rising
Buckley - second round pick with stocks rising
Docherty - second round pick with stocks rising
(Yarran just turned 24 last week)
Giles - 195cm and still growing could still make it - no pick

We have 7-10 good kids on the books or something to work with.

That goes close to being the worst list of under 23 talent in the league imo.

AlthoughI suppose that's because it is largely untried so it could easily turn itself around by this time next year.

 

[SickQwon]

That goes close to being the worst list of under 23 talent in the league imo.

AlthoughI suppose that's because it is largely untried so it could easily turn itself around by this time next year.

Considering 6 of them have played less than 10 games, we'll have to wait and see how they turn out. Too early to judge at this stage.

 

[pinot]

That goes close to being the worst list of under 23 talent in the league imo.

AlthoughI suppose that's because it is largely untried so it could easily turn itself around by this time next year.

They're too young to be judged. They may make it may not. We'll see after 25 games...Menzel, Cripps Buckley and Jaksch will have long careers.

Graham is brilliant at VFL level - built enough muscle and his tank is good now for AFL we will see..and Watson is slowly to turn around but maybe too slow. he may come good as a forward who knows.

 

[Ambrosia]

Considering 6 of them have played less than 10 games, we'll have to wait and see how they turn out. Too early to judge at this stage.

Agreed although most other sides have at least a couple of established players 23 and under.

 

[pinot]

Agreed although most other sides have at least a couple of established players 23 and under.

menzel and buckley are established... cripps broke his leg last year came back after six weeks and got three BOG in VFL... I think he will be a beauty unlucky not to get more games in his First year. Will play regularly this year so will Jaksch.

 

[Richo83]

No Ben Reid started forward

That I'm guessing was in first three seasons where he played 7 games. I'd say then that his career started in earnest down back, he played 2010-2012 almost entirely down back. He's also a much more talented player than Jones.

 

[gillo94]

I'm not saying Jones can't eventually develop some sort of defensive craft, I just think he's far too susceptible to brain fades in the heat of the game and that it'll be too costly to play him in the back half.

If Carlton can drum some composure into him, he could be okay.

You don't sound too displeased with Liam's departure, I would considering time and effort placed in his development plus game winning performance in VFL Grand Final, glad at Blues

 

[Richo83]

menzel and buckley are established... cripps broke his leg last year came back after six weeks and got three BOG in VFL... I think he will be a beauty unlucky not to get more games in his First year. Will play regularly this year so will Jaksch.

Menzel is established, Buckley isn't, he's played nine games in his entire career. Jaksch and Cripps may become established, but they haven't earned their right to be called best 22 yet. Currently, I'd say only Menzel and Docherty have cemented themselves as best 22 from the 23 and under group.

 

[pinot]

Menzel is established, Buckley isn't, he's played nine games in his entire career. Jaksch and Cripps may become established, but they haven't earned their right to be called best 22 yet. Currently, I'd say only Menzel and Docherty have cemented themselves as best 22 from the 23 and under group.

Buckley wasn't dropped he got injured and won Rising star nomination. He is established.

 

[Richo83]

Buckley wasn't dropped he got injured and won Rising star nomination. He is established.

You're assuming no-one takes his place or that he plays good enough to be in the starting 22. I'd wait and see first.