Nathan Lovett-Murray could launch claim against AFL over Essendon doping saga

[NoAFLinmycomp]

For those younger posters, Peter Jess has claims to be one of the first player managers. Back in 1980-83 he was the player manager who hired lawyer Jeff Browne to try and bring down the AFL player movement rules with the Foschini case, with Peter Moore moving to Melbourne and with Cloke and Raines moving to Collingwood. (Jeff Browne was so successful and dangerous that the AFL hired him to rewrite their rules). Jess has been waging a 1-man war against the AFL for 30 years.

Here he is in 1993 basically saying he will make Nicky Winmar sit out of football to force St Kilda to tear up a contract

Martin Hardie is unicorns and rainbows compared to Peter Jess' track record in football.

1980 - would have made it the VFL then?

 

[Albert Ross]

1980 - would have made it the VFL then?

Yep. Foschini and Morwood didn't want to play in Sydney when the Swans were relocated. The "Battle of Hoddle St" which saw Collingwood and Richmond destroy each other over transfers. Jess was around then.

6 years ago he was suing the AFL for an unsafe workplace

DUMPED Bomber Courtney Johns is considering legal action over the knee injury that finished his season and threatens to end his career.

Johns ruptured his anterior cruciate ligament playing at Port Melbourne for the Bendigo Bombers last month and is receiving legal advice from Slater & Gordon over concerns the ground was too hard.

Johns' manager Peter Jess last night told The Footy Show an investigation had started into the condition of Port Melbourne's TEAC Oval.

"What we've got to find out is whether it was a safe workplace," Jess said.

"We've been to the AFLPA and asked them to check the ground and at this stage we don't have a final result on that.

"If it is found that it is not a safe workplace, then I would think that's probably going to be something that we will follow up."

In 2000 he was getting caught trying to dodge the salary cap

The AAT has recently handed down a decision involving a little-known Carlton footballer from the early 1990s, Steven Oliver [(2001) AATA 155, Re Oliver and the Commissioner of Taxation].

Broadly, the case involved a scheme contrived by the Carlton Football Club and the player’s manager, Peter Jess, in order to circumvent the AFL’s salary cap rules.

In 2010 he was establishing a recruiting pathway in Argentina

THE future of Australian rules football could well be a Latino player recruited through Facebook, according to player agent Peter Jess.

With two new clubs entering the league the urgency to identify young athletes capable of playing Australia's indigenous game is dovetailing nicely with the AFL's desire to find new markets for its product and new followers for its game.

In 2001 Cathy Freeman wants her money back

In court, Freeman responded to the breach of contract action by claiming more than 500,000 Australian dollars (£200,000) she said Bideau was not entitled to take from Cathy Freeman Enterprises, the company at the centre of a complex web of trusts and corporate structures set up in her name.

Freeman is also seeking up to A$2 million in compensation for MITC using her name, alleging that Bideau and Jess were guilty of objective dishonesty.

As I say. Peter Jess lol.

 

[yaco55]

You do realize that it has never been possible to have positive tests for peptides. To say the AFL were hoping for a positive test is simply untrue and not consistent with the known facts of peptide testing.

I think its fine to say the AFL were hoping for a positive test - The AFL's initial target testing was looking at HGH - There must be a viable test for peptides or why would ASADA target test players ? Why would ASADA send samples to Germany ? - This is different to ASADA's normal schedule of tests.

 

[yaco55]

I get the drift of your post, in the spirit of the season I am ignoring it

The reality is that the tests are conducted under ASADA guidance, by WADA accredited labs which are obliged to report positive results. The AFL in turn is obliged to report positive results.

In the context of "everything being the AFL's fault", they will be able to demonstrate they had an anti-doping policy in place which included eduction. They warned Hird. They had a reporting mechanism to Harcourt. Harcourt took action, initially by presumably clearing Tribulus after Reid queried it, and laterly by target testing. When a solid accusation was made they conducted the joint-investigation.

They will only need to demonstrate they took reasonable steps, and that will be pretty easy. They will not be expected to have followed players home and cooked their evening meals for them.

Beyond all that the fact that he retired from AFL, kept playing in suburban football and is fullsome in his praise of Hird and EFC will make it pretty hard for him to demonstrate that he has any "pain and suffering" or "mental anguish".

This Peter Jess congo-line will form behind the one that isn't suing the AFL for brain damage because of repeated concussions.

Albert

Of course the AFL can't hide a positive test from ASADA - And must convene an Anti-Doping tribunal - According to provisions this must be kept confidential - So there is nothing to stop the AFL keeping this confidential - After all three players were retired under the AFL's anti-doping code and other players have suffered long term soft tissue injuries.

Of course eventually a doping violation must go on ASADA's website, but this process is often delayed months if not years.

Peter Jess is irrelevant to any argument - Players will only sue in the short term if suspended by ASADA - Not guilty and they won't sue, although you can never tell what will happen in 10 years.

 

[yaco55]

They are. But what will make this a very hard case to make for the players is that the AFL anti-doping code is very clear about areas of responsibilities. Really, the AFL have no responsibilities other than creating the code and assisting ASADA to implement it under very narrow terms. The code places all responsibility at the feet of the players and clubs. Now, as we know, the contractual arrangement between players and AFL is complex so there may be opportunities there, but certainly the anti-doping code does not consider that the AFL is responsible for anything.

Players will only sue if found guilty - Though one never knows what may happen 10 or 20 years in the future.

 

[yaco55]

To be fair to Peter Jess players have successfully sued the AFL for providing an unsafe work place. Shaun Rehn sued the AFL when he slipped on the centre pad when ruvking, tearing his ACL at the MCG in the 1990's and Luke Rhino O'Sullavin successfully sued the AFL when he slipped and tore his ACL on a dodgy surface at Waverley. And from memory Adrian Whitehead successfully sued Carlton for misdiagnosing/treating a foot injuy.

I was at the VFL game at TEAC Oval when Courtney Johns ruptured his ACL. He never stood a chance because he got injured when landing after a marking attempt. I was on the ground that day and the ground was fine. I actually thought it had a reasonable amount of give in the ground. Played and walked on far harder grounds.

 

[gavaniacono]

1980 - would have made it the VFL then?

There's only 1 jess. Jimmy. The Ghost.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

The amazing part about this whole scenario is the amount of Bomber Fans who have no problems thinking that the AFL should've done more to stop the program, but these are so often the same people saying that Hird shouldn't be held accountable for what happened under his watch. He wasn't to know.

They're now lining up to pot the AFL for not doing more, yet the head coach, present each and every day at the club when the injections were taking place was not to know that the players were at risk, despite being given ample information about who was getting what.

We are witnessing truly amazing levels of stupidity.

 

[BlueWorld]

I think its fine to say the AFL were hoping for a positive test - The AFL's initial target testing was looking at HGH - There must be a viable test for peptides or why would ASADA target test players ? Why would ASADA send samples to Germany ? - This is different to ASADA's normal schedule of tests.

There are only 1 or 2 places in the world that are able to test for peptides. I don't think they have ever successfully detected anything. They can only work within a very short time of the drug being taken. Maybe you should realize that dopers are miles ahead of doping authorities' ability to test for new drugs. Cries from EFC supporters that we never tested positive for anything are typical of dopers who know how easy it is to avoid detection.

 

[FastLane]

The amazing part about this whole scenario is the amount of Bomber Fans who have no problems thinking that the AFL should've done more to stop the program, but these are so often the same people saying that Hird shouldn't be held accountable for what happened under his watch. He wasn't to know.

They're now lining up to pot the AFL for not doing more, yet the head coach, present each and every day at the club when the injections were taking place was not to know that the players were at risk, despite being given ample information about who was getting what.

We are witnessing truly amazing levels of stupidity.

I cannot believe Big Footy allowed you to post such nonsense.

I am going to sue BigFooty for allowing you to do so.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I cannot believe Big Footy allowed you to post such nonsense.

I am going to sue BigFooty for allowing you to do so.

The funny thing is, that's not the first time I've read a comment like that.

 

[yaco55]

There are only 1 or 2 places in the world that are able to test for peptides. I don't think they have ever successfully detected anything. They can only work within a very short time of the drug being taken. Maybe you should realize that dopers are miles ahead of doping authorities' ability to test for new drugs. Cries from EFC supporters that we never tested positive for anything are typical of dopers who know how easy it is to avoid detection.

But that is my whole argument - Why waste time testing for a drug that is undetectable ? - You are better at doing spot audits or the like on clubs - And do it on a regular basis.

 

[yaco55]

The amazing part about this whole scenario is the amount of Bomber Fans who have no problems thinking that the AFL should've done more to stop the program, but these are so often the same people saying that Hird shouldn't be held accountable for what happened under his watch. He wasn't to know.

They're now lining up to pot the AFL for not doing more, yet the head coach, present each and every day at the club when the injections were taking place was not to know that the players were at risk, despite being given ample information about who was getting what.

We are witnessing truly amazing levels of stupidity.

I can post as I not a HIRD fan - But continue tarring us with the same brush.

I question the AFL's risk management strategy - And this applies to all clubs - The AFL was already target testing a club ce in 2011 for possible use of HGH - Testing for a substance that is fairly much undetectable is a waste of time and inefficient - And one could argue this is a surefire way to avoid a potential problem - Wouldn't it have been more prudent of the AFL ( the one that has the world's biggest integrity unit ) to actually spot audit clubs for supplement use and the like. At least put clubs on notice if we were really concerned with the INTEGRITY of the game.

 

[Argy]

I can post as I not a HIRD fan - But continue tarring us with the same brush.

I question the AFL's risk management strategy - And this applies to all clubs - The AFL was already target testing a club ce in 2011 for possible use of HGH - Testing for a substance that is fairly much undetectable is a waste of time and inefficient - And one could argue this is a surefire way to avoid a potential problem - Wouldn't it have been more prudent of the AFL ( the one that has the world's biggest integrity unit ) to actually spot audit clubs for supplement use and the like. At least put clubs on notice if we were really concerned with the INTEGRITY of the game.

You make it sound like the AFL knew what drugs your boys were on. They didn't. Hence the drug tests to see what might be found.

 

[Satan]

I cannot believe Big Footy allowed you to post such nonsense.

I am going to sue BigFooty for allowing you to do so.

More " nonsense in stilts" ?
*the lawyer who used that expression should have trademarked this(if possible) as it now in lexicon of BF and be used on other boatds other than the HTB

 

[NoAFLinmycomp]

I can post as I not a HIRD fan - But continue tarring us with the same brush.

I question the AFL's risk management strategy - And this applies to all clubs - The AFL was already target testing a club ce in 2011 for possible use of HGH - Testing for a substance that is fairly much undetectable is a waste of time and inefficient - And one could argue this is a surefire way to avoid a potential problem - Wouldn't it have been more prudent of the AFL ( the one that has the world's biggest integrity unit ) to actually spot audit clubs for supplement use and the like. At least put clubs on notice if we were really concerned with the INTEGRITY of the game.

Yep - there's more than a few of us posting here, that the think that the AFL is part of the problem.

I still believe though, that you first need to identify and confirm a case example and then move through the league. It would make sense in an approach like that (where a government body is involved) that the most strongest case is targeted first.

It appears that from all of the scenarios rumoured across the league, EFC was the biggest and least governed of them all, with possibly the most sufficiently available, external (to the club), investigative trail, to a demonstrate a level of comfortable satisfaction that the infractions occurred.

Let this one run it's course, Essendon players may yet not be found guilty.
But if they are, then let's see what ASADA will do with the rest of the league - these AFL Clubs and players seem to be on too high a pedestal and with too little league managed and directed governance, in comparison to many other smaller and less well-funded Aussie sports competitions.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

You make it sound like the AFL knew what drugs your boys were on. They didn't. Hence the drug tests to see what might be found.

You do realize a drug test searches for specific things don't you? You don't just go "what bad stuff is in there?", and the machine that goes ping tells you

At a very basic level, tests either look for the presence of specific chemicals or elements above a certain detection level, or they look for markers or traits in the sample that should not be present in normal circumstances.

This is why when the afl reports how much testing was done, the numbers differ for the difference PED's, as each has a different test

 

[Argy]

You do realize a drug test searches for specific things don't you? You don't just go "what bad stuff is in there?", and the machine that goes ping tells you

At a very basic level, tests either look for the presence of specific chemicals or elements above a certain detection level, or they look for markers or traits in the sample that should not be present in normal circumstances.

This is why when the afl reports how much testing was done, the numbers differ for the difference PED's, as each has a different test

I don't see the relevance. The AFL suspected EFC of drugging their players and sent off samples to be tested. They did not need to nominate specific drugs to be tested.

Have you ever had a blood test? They can check for everything from diabetes to prostate cancer.

 

[yaco55]

You make it sound like the AFL knew what drugs your boys were on. They didn't. Hence the drug tests to see what might be found.

I suspect that the AFL would have strong information about the type of drugs - You don't send a sample to Germany, unless you test for a particular drug/s. Remember that the AFL were target testing another club in 2011.

 

[yaco55]

Yep - there's more than a few of us posting here, that the think that the AFL is part of the problem.

I still believe though, that you first need to identify and confirm a case example and then move through the league. It would make sense in an approach like that (where a government body is involved) that the most strongest case is targeted first.

It appears that from all of the scenarios rumoured across the league, EFC was the biggest and least governed of them all, with possibly the most sufficiently available, external (to the club), investigative trail, to a demonstrate a level of comfortable satisfaction that the infractions occurred.

Let this one run it's course, Essendon players may yet not be found guilty.
But if they are, then let's see what ASADA will do with the rest of the league - these AFL Clubs and players seem to be on too high a pedestal and with too little league managed and directed governance, in comparison to many other smaller and less well-funded Aussie sports competitions.

I suspect that next time the AFL will adopt a different Risk Management strategy. One which will involve them being procative, rather than reactive.

 

[yaco55]

I don't see the relevance. The AFL suspected EFC of drugging their players and sent off samples to be tested. They did not need to nominate specific drugs to be tested.

Have you ever had a blood test? They can check for everything from diabetes to prostate cancer.

Samples were sent off to Germany for more sophisticated tests - My understanding is it was peptides. Think the same lab also tests for HGH.

 

[van peebles]

I suspect that the AFL would have strong information about the type of drugs - You don't send a sample to Germany, unless you test for a particular drug/s. Remember that the AFL were target testing another club in 2011.

Always thought the AFL was covering their bottoms by getting the tests done.
It wouldve been marched out by Vlad in the dark days to say "we" did our best and got special testing done.The asada train ruined that idea and the afl went down another track to hide the facts.

 

[yaco55]

Always thought the AFL was covering their bottoms by getting the tests done.
It wouldve been marched out by Vlad in the dark days to say "we" did our best and got special testing done.The asada train ruined that idea and the afl went down another track to hide the facts.

I have a slight variation of this theme - AFL definitely wanted to sweep anything under the carpet - But think the AFL wanted to get a positive test - To put the fear of God into clubs It goes through the normal NAD/ASADA scheme so it will remain private - AFL spins a story that a player is injured, similar to cases where players have been pensioned off because they breached the three strikes policy. It is a strange Risk Management policy.

 

[van peebles]

I have a slight variation of this theme - AFL definitely wanted to sweep anything under the carpet - But think the AFL wanted to get a positive test - To put the fear of God into clubs It goes through the normal NAD/ASADA scheme so it will remain private - AFL spins a story that a player is injured, similar to cases where players have been pensioned off because they breached the three strikes policy. It is a strange Risk Management policy.

Similar,swept under carpet =yes.
But get testing done incase somebody spills beans in future=afl present test findings to show how dilligent they were.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I don't see the relevance. The AFL suspected EFC of drugging their players and sent off samples to be tested. They did not need to nominate specific drugs to be tested.

Have you ever had a blood test? They can check for everything from diabetes to prostate cancer.

Yes you do need to know the specific drug

You don't just test for "drugs" you test for a specific drug

For the afl to send samples off for testing for a specific drug, they would have been suspicious about a specific drug or why do a test?