Welcome back to the club Brett Goodes (Rookie pick 57)

[Doggies1972]

I see Goodes getting games as a midfielder - elite runner and our kids will need breaks.

I concur.
Also he and Jong have a good partnership

 

[ErnieSigley]

I concur.
Also he and Jong have a good partnership

Great! So is Jong going to play VFL all year?

 

[ErnieSigley]

Spot on.

We brought guys like Lower and Goodes in to enforce this cultural change - look after your mates, for crying out loud. We're starting to see that come through in the young guys. Hunter, Honeychurch, Hrovat, Stringer, Clay Smith, Libba, Koby and JJ, just to name a few, are all very protective of their teammates.

I'll admit I wasn't too impressed when we re-rookied Goodes given that we had the opportunity to roll a dice on a young player, but your post makes a hell of a lot of sense. Enjoying your contributions this off-season.

Yes the cultural change. Seems to be working so well. How have we gone the last 3 years with this cultural change?

 

[dogwatch]

Yes the cultural change. Seems to be working so well. How have we gone the last 3 years with this cultural change?

A common logic error: post hoc ergo propter hoc (roughly translated means "after it so must have been caused by it").

By the same logic you could say "well we went to recruit tall midfielders with good character (Stringer, Macrae, Bontempelli). Two-to-three years on we still finished bottom 5. Let's chuck that strategy out."

It's just way too simplistic.

I'm not saying the cultural change has been a screaming success (I'm agnostic on the question) but you need to produce better evidence than that, Ernie.

 

[ErnieSigley]

A common logic error: post hoc ergo propter hoc (roughly translated means "after it so must have been caused by it").

By the same logic you could say "well we went to recruit tall midfielders with good character (Stringer, Macrae, Bontempelli). Two-to-three years on we still finished bottom 5. Let's chuck that strategy out."

It's just way too simplistic.

I'm not saying the cultural change has been a screaming success (I'm agnostic on the question) but you need to produce better evidence than that, Ernie.

Its a load of rubbish. There was nothing wrong with the culture before the likes of Goodes or Lower were recruited. If anything the culture got worst.

 

[_Mike_]

Its a load of rubbish. There was nothing wrong with the culture before the likes of Goodes or Lower were recruited. If anything the culture got worst.

Based on what evidence? We've had a culture of failure for god knows how long now, but to insinuate that it got worse because of Lower and Goodes being drafted is simply clutching at straws.

 

[VitalDread]

Its a load of rubbish. There was nothing wrong with the culture before the likes of Goodes or Lower were recruited. If anything the culture got worst.

Justin Sherman

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Justin Sherman

Brodie Moles

 

[Bazza Bulldog]

Brodie Moles

DJ + Vespa = ...

 

[ErnieSigley]

Based on what evidence? We've had a culture of failure for god knows how long now, but to insinuate that it got worse because of Lower and Goodes being drafted is simply clutching at straws.

Based on the ladder evidence.
This culture bs is overrated. Who cares whether or not the culture is good or bad. I'd prefer a winning team.

 

[ErnieSigley]

DJ + Vespa = ...

Brodie Moles

Justin Sherman

Since when has few players not up to standard equalled culture?
Just as ridiculous as saying recruiting reserve players like Lower and Goodes changed our culture.

 

[dogwatch]

Since when has few players not up to standard equalled culture?
Just as ridiculous as saying recruiting reserve players like Lower and Goodes changed our culture.

This is true, although Sherman and Moles had well documented "issues" despite having some ability (not a lot, but enough to compete).
Djerrkura just wasn't a very good footballer. Vesz had ability but no endurance and couldn't maintain the necessary physical intensity. I'm not aware of any major personality issues with these two.

Anyway recruiting Lower and Goodes may have helped shift the balance of good blokes to dickheads slightly in the right direction but would not be enough to change "the culture".

Culture change needs to be led by club and footy management. Changing personnel is part of it but you can't just surgically insert it at the trade/draft table.

 

[Bazza Bulldog]

Its a load of rubbish. There was nothing wrong with the culture before the likes of Goodes or Lower were recruited. If anything the culture got worst.

Since when has few players not up to standard equalled culture?
Just as ridiculous as saying recruiting reserve players like Lower and Goodes changed our culture.

You are the one who said it!

 

[ErnieSigley]

You are the one who said it!

Nice of you just just read my posts and not where this stupid culture debate started in this thread. You quoted my whole post but must not have missed the first part.

The day we look to win the 'culture premiership' I'll take notice.

 

[ErnieSigley]

Anyway recruiting Lower and Goodes may have helped shift the balance of good blokes to dickheads slightly in the right direction but would not be enough to change "the culture".

Culture change needs to be led by club and footy management. Changing personnel is part of it but you can't just surgically insert it at the trade/draft table.

Who cares whether they are dickheads or not? No person is perfect.
I prefer they are able good footballers first.
Wouldn't call Buddy Franklin of good culture yet he has won 2 premierships.

 

[dogwatch]

Who cares whether they are dickheads or not? No person is perfect.
I prefer they are able good footballers first.
Wouldn't call Buddy Franklin of good culture yet he has won 2 premierships.

You don't want to get to a critical mass of dickheads. If you get enough of them they can ruin your club. But if you have only one or two (who are outstanding talents) and you surround them with players with good work ethic, self-belief, strong team orientation, loyalty, etc then you will be OK.

Cousins would be an example - WCE won a flag with him but they had some pretty solid citizens around him.

 

[JJHunter]

You don't want to get to a critical mass of dickheads. If you get enough of them they can ruin your club. But if you have only one or two (who are outstanding talents) and you surround them with players with good work ethic, self-belief, strong team orientation, loyalty, etc then you will be OK.

Cousins would be an example - WCE won a flag with him but they had some pretty solid citizens around him.

Gee you seem to have different opinions of their list than almost everyone !
If eagles didnt have a critical mass of dickheads im not sure what classes as a critical mass

Fletcher, Chick, Daniel Kerr, Cousins - Thats a pretty fine mess right there and they are the only ones we know publicly.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

I don't like the re-selection of Goodes - even as our last rookie pick - however one advantage it does give us is flexibility at the selection table for interstate games. Goodes is the perfect traveling emergency - he can play OK senior football in a number of roles, and allows our youngsters to play at some level every week. Without his type we end up bringing the likes of Webb/McLean/Hunter/whoever interstate, and unless there's a last-minute change they miss out on playing footy that week entirely. Bringing Goodes with us on interstate trips gives us reasonable coverage in the case of late changes without having to potentially sacrifice a game for a developing type. I wouldn't be surprised if this was part of the reason for his re-selection.

 

[Snake Livermore]

I don't like the re-selection of Goodes - even as our last rookie pick - however one advantage it does give us is flexibility at the selection table for interstate games. Goodes is the perfect traveling emergency - he can play OK senior football in a number of roles, and allows our youngsters to play at some level every week. Without his type we end up bringing the likes of Webb/McLean/Hunter/whoever interstate, and unless there's a last-minute change they miss out on playing footy that week entirely. Bringing Goodes with us on interstate trips gives us reasonable coverage in the case of late changes without having to potentially sacrifice a game for a developing type. I wouldn't be surprised if this was part of the reason for his re-selection.

Probably not a legitimate reason to draft someone, but it is a concern for us, especially with the amount of Sunday games we have and the associated need to keep a 19th man fresh.

 

[black pup]

I don't like the re-selection of Goodes - even as our last rookie pick - however one advantage it does give us is flexibility at the selection table for interstate games. Goodes is the perfect traveling emergency - he can play OK senior football in a number of roles, and allows our youngsters to play at some level every week. Without his type we end up bringing the likes of Webb/McLean/Hunter/whoever interstate, and unless there's a last-minute change they miss out on playing footy that week entirely. Bringing Goodes with us on interstate trips gives us reasonable coverage in the case of late changes without having to potentially sacrifice a game for a developing type. I wouldn't be surprised if this was part of the reason for his re-selection.

Just stick to your stats my man. That is absolutely amazing, Goodes for interstate games, give me a break.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Probably not a legitimate reason to draft someone, but it is a concern for us, especially with the amount of Sunday games we have and the associated need to keep a 19th man fresh.

No, not at all a legitimate reason on its own - just an added benefit which comes from having him on the list. As I said, I don't like the selection. At all. I'd rather our young players play at some level most weeks rather than flying around the country for little benefit, though.

 

[timtamWB]

I don't like the re-selection of Goodes - even as our last rookie pick - however one advantage it does give us is flexibility at the selection table for interstate games. Goodes is the perfect traveling emergency - he can play OK senior football in a number of roles, and allows our youngsters to play at some level every week. Without his type we end up bringing the likes of Webb/McLean/Hunter/whoever interstate, and unless there's a last-minute change they miss out on playing footy that week entirely. Bringing Goodes with us on interstate trips gives us reasonable coverage in the case of late changes without having to potentially sacrifice a game for a developing type. I wouldn't be surprised if this was part of the reason for his re-selection.

And you and I both recall how many times there was an outrage for taking someone like Hunter up to the Gold Coast (for example) and not playing him, and for good reason. He's close to senior selection, obviously, but he's being robbed of the opportunity to actually showcase himself and push him over the edge to gain senior selection.

As has been said, and you've clarified, not a legitimate reason on it's own. But it adds to the multitude of reasons to show that Goodes was a good choice. Of course sometimes you get a gem like a Kieran Jack with your last rookie pick, but far more often than not you end up with an Alex Greenwood. And no slight on him, but he was just never going to make it as an AFL footballer.

 

[Doggies1972]

Great! So is Jong going to play VFL all year?

not all, some more than likely, as with Goodes. Just think that if he gets a run in the afl it will be as a midfielder instead of out position in the backs. Secondly he has heart.... which the club needs and needs to keep developing. Its not all stats and structures, or following other clubs protocols to a tee to get the winning edge. Sometimes its heart and dedication, which he's shown plenty of, and hopefully can instill that into others on the list.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

And you and I both recall how many times there was an outrage for taking someone like Hunter up to the Gold Coast (for example) and not playing him, and for good reason. He's close to senior selection, obviously, but he's being robbed of the opportunity to actually showcase himself and push him over the edge to gain senior selection.

As has been said, and you've clarified, not a legitimate reason on it's own. But it adds to the multitude of reasons to show that Goodes was a good choice. Of course sometimes you get a gem like a Kieran Jack with your last rookie pick, but far more often than not you end up with an Alex Greenwood. And no slight on him, but he was just never going to make it as an AFL footballer.

I'm still not sold on the bolded part but the rest is very much what I was getting at. Not a good reason to pick him independent of any other, but it'll be nice to have the option there. I like to see our kids playing some level of football every week in order to keep learning and developing. Not a fan of carting one around the country and missing a game every second week.

 

[LukasTheGreat]

I don't like the re-selection of Goodes - even as our last rookie pick - however one advantage it does give us is flexibility at the selection table for interstate games. Goodes is the perfect traveling emergency - he can play OK senior football in a number of roles, and allows our youngsters to play at some level every week. Without his type we end up bringing the likes of Webb/McLean/Hunter/whoever interstate, and unless there's a last-minute change they miss out on playing footy that week entirely. Bringing Goodes with us on interstate trips gives us reasonable coverage in the case of late changes without having to potentially sacrifice a game for a developing type. I wouldn't be surprised if this was part of the reason for his re-selection.

Just stick to your stats my man. That is absolutely amazing, Goodes for interstate games, give me a break.

Daniel you just got wrecked.