Clarke's not the best batsman in the world and never was
Michael Clarke vs the World
- Thread starter ManWithNoName
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I agree with this. De Villiars, Sangakara and Amla are the 3 best in the world.
He was pretty damm close if not there in 2012. You could certainly make a very credible case for it.
Certainly never definitively, but has been in the conversation for a few years.
- Mar 25, 2003
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Yeah I think you'd have to give it to Clarke that he reached the summit during 2012/13. He first two double tons were against a pretty ordinary Indian attack, but the second two were against South Africa and he then score a ton in the first test in India after our summer.
But yeah his period at the top was probably quite brief. As I said earlier it's remarkable that in the last five calendar years, only one of them has he averaged above 50, and in 3 of those 5 it's been below 40. It just happened that year it was above 50, it was over 100 and he hit four double tons in one year which no one else has ever done.
I think there is a perception that he has been scoring runs year in year out for some time now, but that isn't quite the reality.
But yeah his period at the top was probably quite brief. As I said earlier it's remarkable that in the last five calendar years, only one of them has he averaged above 50, and in 3 of those 5 it's been below 40. It just happened that year it was above 50, it was over 100 and he hit four double tons in one year which no one else has ever done.
I think there is a perception that he has been scoring runs year in year out for some time now, but that isn't quite the reality.
- May 3, 2006
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Been said but if you think Clarke is currently the best batsman in the world you need to watch more cricket. And no, he is no longer even the best cricketer in the side, Smith, Warner and MJ would be considered more important to our prospects currently
That said he is a very good batsman...when fit (which isn't often). This would not be an issue if he was just a player, rather than a seemingly unpopular captain.
Notable that another day has passed and apart from Smith giving a diplomatic speech at the AB medal about it "still being Michaels team" there seems to be no comment from current players contradicting anything in the article. Their silence seems rather damnning
The number of articles coming out at once suggests that CA is implicitly involved in this campaign.
Like Sweet Jesus I can acknowledge this whilst not being sure it's the best move for Australian cricket.
In my view our chances of retaining the Ashes are maximised if Clarke is in the team and is Captain (assuming fitness).
- Mar 25, 2003
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I agree that we are better with him going to England.
But if he isn't fit for the world cup then he needs to accept the decision and move on to the next challenge. If it becomes a war of words, particularly if played out in public, it's gonna be very hard to have sympathy for him.
But if he isn't fit for the world cup then he needs to accept the decision and move on to the next challenge. If it becomes a war of words, particularly if played out in public, it's gonna be very hard to have sympathy for him.
- Apr 2, 2013
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In a way this reminds me of Kevin Rudd circa 2010. (All to do with politics and personality) after all. The selectors would do well to read their history. That is if he is removed they will need to explain why to the public rather than sweep it under the rug. Suppose Clarke is removed, snatches it and doesn't play and/or an inexperienced captain in Smith makes a few errors and Australia go down the PR fall out would be huge and Clarke might not be the only one that gets removed. Alternatively Australia win under Smith and it is a genius move, culture matters etc etc.
A tricky one. Tend to think CA are busting for the Ashes to start and hopefully the ship's fraying parts hold together till then before a number of easier series come up and the side is remade. (Reckon they are also busting for the WC to start and Clarke to not come up as it is a less sticky situation with only 5 tests before in CA's eyes he hopefully goes) As in Clarke, Watson go and possibly Haddin, Harris and Rogers retire and a rebuild is done with Smith, Johnson and Warner the key planks.
A tricky one. Tend to think CA are busting for the Ashes to start and hopefully the ship's fraying parts hold together till then before a number of easier series come up and the side is remade. (Reckon they are also busting for the WC to start and Clarke to not come up as it is a less sticky situation with only 5 tests before in CA's eyes he hopefully goes) As in Clarke, Watson go and possibly Haddin, Harris and Rogers retire and a rebuild is done with Smith, Johnson and Warner the key planks.
If Clarke is replaced as Captain by Smith it will be sold purely on Michael's ongoing fitness issues and what "is in his best interests" to allow him to work on getting his body right / best interests of the team - one captain etc.etc.
What Clarke does if that happens is up to him. He can retire and seemingly go out on top or he could play on with a noose around his neck. I can't see him playing on.
Maybe they are happy to watch him cook.
You need to remember that above all else, that Clarke is a dirty rat.
He finked on Roy and that sort of memory would stay will the team, especially after CA shafted Roy over monkeygate.
Let's keep in mind that he broke up Hussey's retirement party with that bs "Official CA event" party on Packer's yacht, with the implied (if not spoken) threat that he'd get onto the powers that be if the team didn't comply. Lyon was one that told him to piss of and was dropped shortly after.
Fact is, this bloke ends careers and it's not surprising that the team is moving on quickly.
- Apr 19, 2012
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Discussion appears to have reverted to the same old tired topic. Nothing to see here.
peternorth
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- #264
about michael clarke?
- May 3, 2006
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As in...the discussion about the points raised in the OP?
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That's fair enough. I wouldn't argue with that.
But surely it is incumbent upon the ACB to keep it together long enough for us to have a real crack at the Ashes. Entering into a Cold War with your captain and most accomplished batsman six months beforehand is not good governance.
We have a rare opportunity to do real damage to England – last time we finished off Swann, Pietersen, maybe Prior, maybe Trott. Now let's go for Cook, Anderson and the entire ECB management. We could burn their little house down. Instead, we are engaging in this ridiculous self-sabotage that opens the door for them. And if England win back the Ashes, they'll be off the hook, all their missteps of the past 18 months redeemed.
After the Ashes, we go to Bangladesh for two Tests. Fair chance Clarke would be rested from that tour anyway. Then, before the start of the home summer, in which we host NZ and the Windies for three Tests each, by all means tap Clarke on the shoulder and tell him his time is up. It's entirely the selectors' prerogative to say: 'We've got 12 months to bed down a new side with Smith as captain and that's where we're heading'.
That would be totally reasonable.
But this game of Chicken before an Ashes series is madness. If it leads to Clarke being axed before the Ashes, both he and the ACB will be diminished. But if we go on to lose the Ashes, it will be the ACB who has to carry the can. And England will emerge as the only winner.
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- Banned
- #267
I'm afraid I don't know what this means.
When Clarke scored 161 not out against South Africa, while batting with a fractured shoulder, was he playing selfishly? Or doing what was best for the team?
People spent so many years underestimating Clarke, thinking he was soft and had no mongrel, but now they've thrown the pendulum to the other extreme, concluding that he's too intense and too driven and the other players can't deal with it. It's crazy.
How did we get to the point where this guy is 'the problem'? Maybe the real problem is that there aren't more guys like him?
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There aren't any more like him, on two fronts - 1 as a batsman and 2 as a bloke. Unfortunately he started the war with CA, They will finish it - he gambled that the side could not survive without him, they think on a small sample that maybe they can - that's it in a nutshell.
It's not too intense and too driven.
Ponting was intense, Hussey was driven.
They weren't selfish.
Ponting was intense, Hussey was driven.
They weren't selfish.
- Banned
- #270
Two things suggest to me that it is co-ordinated and ACB-driven.
Firstly, the timing. A bunch of articles all undermining Clarke, right at the time Smith dominates at the Allan Border Medal. It's the perfect context in which to push the idea that maybe Clarke is yesterday's man because, well, look at Steve Smith. The fact there are several articles suggest that this isn't just one journalist's pet theory.
Secondly, the same talking points crop up again and again. This is exactly what happened when the ECB briefed against Pietersen. Take, for example, the anecdote about players being unhappy that Clarke appeared on Channel Nine's commentary. There is no way in hell that any player is seeking out a journalist and saying that they were pissed off with Clarke. Bear in mind, the fact that more than one article has that information means they'd have to be telling more than one journalist. Think how risky that would be. They'd risk their careers by slagging off the captain. That line about Clarke's commentary angering the team absolutely must have come from the ACB – passed on to illustrate their talking point that Clarke is 'aloof' or no longer has the support of the dressing room.
Look also at the anecdote that opens Andrew Webster's piece, talking about Clarke not attending Warner's BBQ. Now, that certainly didn't come from a player. Can you imagine a player contacting a journalist and telling them that Clarke's got no mates and offering, by way of illustration, that ridiculous story about Warner's BBQ? That conversation simply would not happen. A player would have to have an absolute death wish to do that. That anecdote can only have been fed to that journalist to illustrate the same talking point mentioned above.
If anyone is not convinced, ask yourself this: if that information didn't come from the ACB, and in fact came from a player, surely the ACB should be investigating which players have been briefing against the captain. Because that would be unacceptable, right? The fact they are not doing that surely suggests that they are cool with it – because it's their leak.
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- #271
They can finish it after the Ashes. That would make complete sense and everyone would understand.
But doing it before, using these leaks to undermine him, seems like an unnecessary act of self-sabotage. They're no longer acting in good faith. That diminishes them as well. It's not a good idea.
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- #272
I still don't really know what that means. What has Clarke done that demonstrates this selfishness?
Surely we have to do more than simply use an unflattering adjective and act like that makes the case.
No one is disagreeing with you - the articles are not by cricket journo's. When Clarke tore the hammy, the conjecture was almost universal that Haddin would get the job as a temporary skipper while Clarke mended. Two days before he was announced as skipper, there was a puff piece on Steve Smith on Fox Sports news - totally out of context with the "news" aspect. I spoke to one of my insiders who told me Smith was going to get the job and that Haddin might have said no.
As soon as they did that, Clarke knew he was in a fight for his job. He has locked horns with Rod Marsh and he doesn't give in easily. It's not going to end well.
Tulip
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Or his 329 in a dead rubber against India. Could have batted on for a very real chance at the world record, but sacrificed himself for the good of the team despite the win meaning next to nothing.
I can not believe people think Clarke is a dickhead and needs to be moved on. This team is full of dickheads, it's why our side has always been so successful. They play hard, they play well and they don't mince their words. Warner is a deadset ordinary bloke, it's pretty plain to see that, but where are the calls for him to be accountable?
Tulip
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Because CA is a place for egos to fester, and it always has been. Clarke is the ego that is actually doing something, and they don't like that. A guy like Smith, non-controversial and just happy to be in the side, is who they want. A yes man, just like Ponting had become.
They always do this. They follow up the tough talker with a guy who will follow orders. Border - Taylor - Waugh - Ponting - Clarke - Smith. Trends.
